Political Crossfire Forums

Gitana · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject:

I love it....lol. After six years of complete Republican power (we won't mention the corruption) - the Houses, the Executive Branch, the Judicial Branch - somebody still comes along and blames the Democrats. That's hysterical!

So....what say you to the Republican majority preventing Clinton from going after bin Laden when he wanted to...? If he had, 9-11 might never have taken place. Or is that an inconvenient truth? (I'm punny)

A divided country? You betcha. There are those who respect our Constitution and the American democratic ideals, and there are those who think being American means you are free to take advantage of everything and everybody on the planet for your own gain as long as you can get away with it. O, yes, and if you can't get away with it because it's illegal, have the laws changed to cover your arse. War? Yup - but it ain't Iraq. Decide what you believe in and fight for it, because it isn't going to go away until the thieves and crooks are mostly out of our government. Of either party - but the Repubs most splendidly showed what they were about in the last six years. BTW - CNN had call-ins on the elections - and a majority of those calls were from lifelong Repubs who said they voted Dem this time. You figure it out.

I'll leave you with the words and attitude of your beloved president - (as Bush said to a voter who asked him a question back in 2001): "Who cares what you think?"

And by the way, for an earlier poster: No, not all of us were fooled after 9-11....or before, for that matter. The Heritage Foundation's Mandate For Leadership (Vol. 3-4) told us exactly what this admin was going to do well before they did it; to include getting the American people to accept invading a sovereign nation. Oddly enough, what they said they needed back in 1998-9 was a "national crisis" in order to implement their plans. ....and along came 9-11 shortly after the most disputed and devisive election in history. What an amazing coincidence. However, those of us who tried to caution in the early years were accused of being 'traitors' 'unpatriotic' 'etc. Republicans staged huge rallies to get the message out that if you didn't support the invasion, you were unpatriotic (at best) - and if you did support it, you were obviously a God-fearing patriot. The Repub PR machine kicked into full gear. Nauseating.

pikers · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: democrats ruined our country

[quote="usa-1"]:lol:

Quote: A.After they were lied to by the Bush Administartion,...yes, then they voted for war.

Apparently, the world intel community is to blame now for your incompetence, since that's where Bush got his info.

Quote: A.Your mixing true apples with false oranges. Being a sheared sheeple of the Bush regime, I doubt that makes any sense to you, but you might as well said when the moon turned blue, yadda-yadda.

Is that a response, or a typical shrieking ad-hominem against a person doubtlessly smarter than you?

Quote: A.The country was divided the day the Republicans falsely accused the Democrats of being responsible for 911, and set an agenda to prove that Bush was clean as sheared sheep wool. It was divided when Trent Lott stood in the Senate and declared war against the Democrats. It was divided when Bush demanded of his clearly illegal lying-assed war, you are either with us or against us.

Sometimes the truth has to be told. Obstructionism when it comes to protecting this nation is seldom rewarded. The mid-terms simply showed that the nation is fair, and desires a true Conservative re-birth, with a little balance mixed in. That, and the Republicans that voted Dem are simply eager to watch the Jackasses bury themselves.

Quote: A. I can see how you would believe a fair election without Republcans stealing it, blocking voting booths, pulling a Tom Delay, is a pathetic election of your Republicans that you have ever seen. Surprised me as well. By the way, I am estatic!!!

Ah, yes. Blaming the stupidity of the core Dem voter base on a conspiracy theory. I was waiting for that.

As much as libs like to call Repubs "rednecks" and "Nazis" you never hear about voter intelligence issues at the ballot box. I wonder why that is? Possibly (just throwing out ides here) that the places where those problems occur are filled with people waiting for someone else to vote for them, just like everything else.

Quote: A. I think we have been bad mouthing Republicans for years, at least as far back in my recollections. Yes, by Allah dabba-doo, it has been years, and I bet some people were just like you said, while others were not.

You don't say.

Quote: A.There is no evidence of that, but your welcome to present your case over the coming years of Dem Congressional control. I notice that is some kind of voodoo hoodoo warning. Are you a magi or carry a crystal ball? Palm reader? Snake dancer? Or just another Christian picking up sound waves from UFOs and big foots in the night?

Since we're looking for evidence, let's examine the strategies the Dems have for this nation that earned them the Congress. Oh, that's right...

Quote: A.Ah, you were doing so good for a Republican sheared sheeple, wanting a united nation of fun loving people, and then you start name calling, and making false insinuations of good ol Democrat Christian people who live all around you, take care of your wife when you are at work (tv repairmen, milkmen, delivery men), and provide the tax base you hungry republicans need to continue killing American soldiers in Iraq. Did you know a lot of people that voted for the Democrat ticket were republicans?

Right, because they're the only ones that can figure out how to vote correctly. Remember that a Repub loss does not imply a Dem win, despite how much you want that.

Quote: A.Let me ask you, would you have confidence in a government run by an idiot, a habitual liar, a person who aborted his own son in a Texas abortion clinic, that was a drunk for half of his life, who is a draft dodger, who thinks a "C" grade is good enough for the nation, who drinks and drives the streets of America where children are present, who attempted to stop the 911 investigation, that puts the rich & their tax cuts before the nations military and their family needs, ...............well, I could go on,..but being a divided nation lacking confidence, selfrespect, shamed by the worlds nations seems to be a result of the Republican control of government. It will take years to re-establish America in the minds and hearts of the World, It will take years before they trust us, or help us when a legitimate war comes along. Our credibility has been cashed in by the Bush regime and sheared sheeple like yourself, so get over it.

Without the war in Iraq, half of those things wouldn't be said. However, the Dems are co-opted by leftists and anti-war peaceniks, so here we go with another effort to sabotage a Republican President during wartime.

Most of the world is an armpit. Let's do well and remember that. Their opinions scarcely matter when their backyard is hardly clean.

Quote: A.Well their was the bj problem they had to solve, but most of the future problems will be undoing the monster the Republicans have created, and the voting public know that it will take about 30 years or so of Democrat rule to straighten this train wreck of the Axis of Bush evil out. The American people understand what faces them, that is why they voted their conscience in the Congress, and I bet they follow that up with a Democrat President when the dew forms on the pumpkin - maybe an impeachment before then - for the sake of the troops I hope so.
:-D Be happy

And when we undo those problems, expect another draught for Dem office-holders. The populace is center-right.

Impeachment, BTW, does nothing for the image and overall good of our nation, which is why there was such trouble getting Clinton's articles. Most concientious Conservative were against it. Libs however have no problem with burning the entire house down just to get at the termites.

Again, I wholly endorse whatever extreme actions the left chooses to take--it's their grave they dig.

usa-1 · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 80

Since we're looking for evidence, let's examine the strategies the Dems have for this nation that earned them the Congress. Oh, that's right...

More Yadda Yadda. Just imagine this, the people elected the Democrats without a plan, and thought no plan was better than the Republican plan. Just admit your party finally got enough rope to hang themselves. Whining here will only get you a brick of cheese to go with it.

So the question remains, are you with us or against us? :lol:

Snake · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 21776 Location: e-Thuggin

wyldejackyl wrote: Already took care of it:
I'm tired of all these mutha phuckin idiots ruining my mutha phuckin country. (whether they be DNC, or GOP)

TANSTAAFL · Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 90 Location: Idaho

wyldejackyl wrote: Somebloke wrote: Let's not forget 5) snakes are cool.

Already took care of it:

I don't trust any politician..well, almost all of them. I am sick of the two-party system though, I'm sick of people that lie and cheat and are in bed with big business holding positions of power for the gain of themselves and their cronies. I'm waiting for a government to evolve where everyone has their freedom to do what they want so long as it doesn't infringe on others, common sense comes back to us as a people, and we all stay out of the fights in the world that don't count.

Thomas Jefferson among many others, wanted the same and warned the states of what would happen if a strong central governemnt was allowed to overrule states rights. Hamilton and his banker friends got their way.
Southern Democrats wanted to re-exert states rights, radical Republicans opposed this violently. Lincoln and the radical Republicans got their way.
Throughout our national history, those in favor of a strong central government have worked in opposition to the right of individual choice.
If you really want freedom of choice without government interference in your life, and a M.Y.O.B. policy to the world, we need government to devolve. Whether you liked Reagan or not, he was accurate when he said " The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ' I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "

Time Lord · Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 67 Location: Baltimore, MD

Quote: You(democrats) are all a bunch of snakes in the grass as far as I'm concerned.

I'm new here. I certainly hope this isn't what passes for reasonable intelligent conversation here... :roll:

wyldejackyl · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 7137 Location: Chicago, IL

It isn't. People act like putzes sometimes- you just have to let it go.
Welcome, you'll learn a lot!

What's the advantage of a strong central government for the average person? I can't see any, other than national defense, and it seems alot of policies we make BECAUSE of that strong central government, create those problems, or at least fan the flames.

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

jmac87 wrote: Before all you liberals get your panties in a bundle let me explain. After September 11th when congress voted to go to war in Iraq it was not only the republicans that voted yes to war. As a matter of fact a lot of democrats sided with bush on this war. When Clinton bombed Iraq it was never questioned again but now that the war isn't over and the republicans were in control of the government the democrats started pointing fingers and badmouthing the "Republican" solution to September 11th. By doing this they have divided the country and now have nearly 2/3Rd's of our people not happy with the job our government is doing. They're probably real happy now because they just took over the government in what was possibly the most pathetic attempt to gain votes I've ever seen. They've been badmouthing republicans for the past two years solid and it worked. Partly because people are so eager to get this whole situation over with that they readily accept all the accusations and false promises. I assure you the Democratic cloud is without a silver lining. You(democrats) are all a bunch of snakes in the grass as far as I'm concerned. In either case now your stuck with a divided country and a divided government that nobody has any confidence in so the second the people realize that the democrats aren't going to solve their problems the gloves will come off. Good luck cause were all going to need it.

The "Republican solution" (sounds a lot like the Final Solution...anyhow), was really the NeoCon solution. Bush 41 knew going into Baghdad was a horrible idea. Bush 43 and the NeoCons decided to make this a full-blown war.

The Dem's authorized force, but no one could ever imagine someone would be so stupid as to do what Bush 43 did. You don't invade an innocent country in the Middle East and expect the Mission to be Accomplished in 2 months.

The Neo Cons, and the Republicans that fell for their hubris, "ruined" the country. (Truth be told, the country isn't ruined, it is just having a 6 years set-back).

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

TANSTAAFL wrote: Whether you liked Reagan or not, he was accurate when he said " The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ' I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "

I don't think so. Gov't is a cooperation of people. It has all the potential for good and bad that any group of people can have. The difference for, say, a corporation, is that it's stated purpose to ensure the health, wealth and welfare of people - not simply make a profit.

I don't believe the demonization of gov't is a good thing. (I don't think you implicitly trust it either).

Oversight, transparency and fair voting are crucial.

The gov't can do some amazing things. Sure it gets it's lumps, but if I'm not mistaken, the gov't helps a lot of people and can do major works projects that are not feasible from corporations. The gov't also is the only thing that can go to war, or defend the country.

I think the Reagan point of view is ironic: "Gov't is bad, vote for me."

The solution is not to demonize gov't, it is to ensure it has the tools and will to fulfill it's promise. After all, their is going to be gov't at every level of our lives, for the rest of humanity.

It's kind of like demonizing the air when the wind is blowing too strong. The answer is not to eradicate air, but to mitigate the damage the air can do.

wyldejackyl · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 7137 Location: Chicago, IL

But you see, our government is no longer a cooperation of people. It's a wealthy elite funding politicians to get their issues handled first and foremost, members of government acting on their own accord out of corruption and greed (some if it techincally legal=lobbyists), and there is no demand from the people for transparency. Every day I see this f***ing surveillance cameras watching me, and wondering who's on the other end. One part of me wants to shoot them out..the other wants cameras in every government office, streaming video available on public websites so I can see precisely what those people are doing with MY tax money. If they can watch me..how come I can't watch them?

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

wyldejackyl wrote: But you see, our government is no longer a cooperation of people. It's a wealthy elite funding politicians to get their issues handled first and foremost, members of government acting on their own accord out of corruption and greed (some if it techincally legal=lobbyists), and there is no demand from the people for transparency. Every day I see this f***ing surveillance cameras watching me, and wondering who's on the other end. One part of me wants to shoot them out..the other wants cameras in every government office, streaming video available on public websites so I can see precisely what those people are doing with MY tax money. If they can watch me..how come I can't watch them?

Yes, and so what is the solution? Eventually, reality sets in and you have to realize that the only thing that will overcome this situation is by cooperation of people.
You can always start a petition to get recording gear in politico's offices, but I imagine even if you could get it there, they would find a way of being corrupt.

People who aspire to positions of power have similar characteristics. In some way, we have to accept that there are "types" of people who want to be elected, campaign, and change human events. The meek DO NOT inherent the Earth, the bold take it. The only firewall between us and those who want to take it from us, are our elected officials. Our Government.

Our democracy/republic is obviously strong, and it has afforded us unimaginable power and wealth - so obviously something is working right. We have to accept that some level of corruption will always exist - but we don't need to tolerate the individuals who commit corruption.

That is, if you have a company and you know that people will steal pencils or a few cars, you don't fold up shop, you try to limit the theft and recognize that being in business is better than not.

TANSTAAFL · Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 90 Location: Idaho

The government is only as altruistic as it's most corrupt member, regardless of political affiliation.

420 Butterflies · Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 19 Location: SD

jmac87 wrote: Before all you liberals get your panties in a bundle let me explain. After September 11th when congress voted to go to war in Iraq it was not only the republicans that voted yes to war. As a matter of fact a lot of democrats sided with bush on this war. When Clinton bombed Iraq it was never questioned again but now that the war isn't over and the republicans were in control of the government the democrats started pointing fingers and badmouthing the "Republican" solution to September 11th. By doing this they have divided the country and now have nearly 2/3Rd's of our people not happy with the job our government is doing. They're probably real happy now because they just took over the government in what was possibly the most pathetic attempt to gain votes I've ever seen. They've been badmouthing republicans for the past two years solid and it worked. Partly because people are so eager to get this whole situation over with that they readily accept all the accusations and false promises. I assure you the Democratic cloud is without a silver lining. You(democrats) are all a bunch of snakes in the grass as far as I'm concerned. In either case now your stuck with a divided country and a divided government that nobody has any confidence in so the second the people realize that the democrats aren't going to solve their problems the gloves will come off. Good luck cause were all going to need it.
After reading many many posts by republicans and listening to rush limbaugh a few times I've come to the conclusion that you are delusional. You live in some sort of fantasy world where lower taxes somehow equal more revenue for the Goverment. Please take the bushgoggles off, every muslim is not a terrorist and we are not war with hitler.

Gitana · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject:

Really, one must consider just exactly how 'great' things really are here. We are the wealthiest country in the world, yet the average citizen has trouble making ends meet, parents must both work to provide basic necessities (housing food, etc), their children are subsequently deprived of full-time parenting, and must pay others to care for their children, often from birth. Should those children later develop problems, it's the "neglectful parents" (you know, the ones who had to work 9-5) fault. We tout how much we care for children, but our standards of education are abysmal & great numbers of our children (and adults) have no health care at all. Crime by children is rising. The ability to obtain a college education is declining rapidly, and controlled by our government for all by the wealthy. (Think about that.)

One can work all their life and still end up dependent on an insufficient government handout for retirement, ending their life in poverty, struggling to pay for medicines that the drug companies, in collusion with government, have priced ridiculously; or dying prematurely due to lack of health care.

One can 'own' property, but one must pay taxes, permits, and recurring fee's for it all their lives. Most do not 'own' much of anything; the financer does until it's paid off. It takes most of one's lifetime to pay for the roof over their heads, and several years to pay for basic transportation.

One's credit worthiness - and hence, one's finances to a large degree - are determined/controlled by three mysterious companies that have almost no accountability to anyone. Your banks can charge predator-level fee's for everything and anything they can invent - to use YOUR money; they can hold your money, they can take it without your permission, & again, there is little accountability to anyone. Employers, except at the executive level, have no obligations to their employees anymore.

You are taxed on the same dollar earned so many times we can't count it. You earn one dollar, & it's taxed at the state level, then the federal level; it's taxed again if you spend it, it's taxed if you leave it in the bank. If you buy property with it (car, house, etc), it's "taxed" annually for the life of your ownership, whether in the form of a true tax, or registration/licensing/permit fees.

We have reached a stage in this country where big business and government is virtually indistinguishable from each other - a state Eisenhower warned against. The result, politics aside (Patriot Act, Military Act of '06) is a country whose quality of 'good life' is only easily attained by the very wealthy. Our middle class has been almost wiped out, and we are descending to a feudal society status (serf and overlord) with a veneer of democracy.

I am always amazed at the number of people who still believe that if you just work hard enough, you can be a 'success' - and one can assume the definition of success in that context is true financial comfort. This is largely a myth, and getting worse each year for many Americans. Globally, we no longer enjoy the highest average pay, the best healthcare, the lowest infant mortality rates; we work the longest hours and have the least vacation time of all the industrialized nations; our levels of education are atrocious - the list is endless. Yet the myth persists, and it serves the corporate/government elite well.

wyldejackyl · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 7137 Location: Chicago, IL

And people have been conditioned to not think for themselves, so they buy all the bulls**t and the machine keeps on rolling. I hope one day it grinds to a halt though, I really do. We're digressing towards 3rd world status for many of our citizens it's not even funny.

Alizard · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: democrats ruined our country

jmac87 wrote: Before all you liberals get your panties in a bundle let me explain. After September 11th when congress voted to go to war in Iraq it was not only the republicans that voted yes to war.

Wow. talk about an "old news" worthless thread topic. Thart horse has been beaten to death and his bones are drying in the sun.

Yes, a lot of dems got a serious spine shortage when they should have stood up against tyranny.

And those of us who were paying attention at the time said it loud and often.

They caved into Bush's "either you support me or you are a terror lover" intimidation.

And we all know where it got us.

Gitana · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:51 am Post subject:

Quote: I hope one day it grinds to a halt though, I really do. We're digressing towards 3rd world status for many of our citizens it's not even funny.

I'm with you on that one.

Angel.Airwave · Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 2

I ALSO HATE THE 2 PARTY SYSTEM. PEOPLE SEEM TO HAVE TO BELONG TO EITHER PARTY, WHY CANT THEY JUST VOTE FOR WHAT THEY WANT? DEMOCRATS SPENT THE LAST 6 YEARS BASHING BUSH, WHEN THEY DONT HAVE A BETTER SOLOUTION. THEY ONLY JUST REALIZED THAT NOW THEY HAVE TO TRY TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, INSTEAD OF SAYING "ELECT ME IM ANTI-BUSH" ALL THE TIME. WHEN BUSH IS GONE I HOPE THEY THINK OF SOMEONE ELSE TO BLAME, BECAUSE I ASK ALL YOU REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS OUT THERE IF YOU ACTUALLY THINK 90% OF VOTERS KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY VOTED FOR. ELECTIONS HAVE TURNED INTO A RACE TO UNCOVER THE MOST SCANDAL, WHOEVER CAN GET MORE MEDIA THAT COVERS WHAT THE OTHER GUY IS DOING WRONG INSTEAD OF WHAT THEY WILL DO. PEOPLE SAY "ILL VOTE FOR HIM, THE OTHER GUY IS BAD," BUT DO THEY ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT EITHER PERSON WILL DO FOR THEM?
GO INDEPENDENTS :-D

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4162

Angel.Airwave wrote: I ALSO HATE THE 2 PARTY SYSTEM. PEOPLE SEEM TO HAVE TO BELONG TO EITHER PARTY, WHY CANT THEY JUST VOTE FOR WHAT THEY WANT? DEMOCRATS SPENT THE LAST 6 YEARS BASHING BUSH, WHEN THEY DONT HAVE A BETTER SOLOUTION. THEY ONLY JUST REALIZED THAT NOW THEY HAVE TO TRY TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, INSTEAD OF SAYING "ELECT ME IM ANTI-BUSH" ALL THE TIME. WHEN BUSH IS GONE I HOPE THEY THINK OF SOMEONE ELSE TO BLAME, BECAUSE I ASK ALL YOU REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS OUT THERE IF YOU ACTUALLY THINK 90% OF VOTERS KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY VOTED FOR. ELECTIONS HAVE TURNED INTO A RACE TO UNCOVER THE MOST SCANDAL, WHOEVER CAN GET MORE MEDIA THAT COVERS WHAT THE OTHER GUY IS DOING WRONG INSTEAD OF WHAT THEY WILL DO. PEOPLE SAY "ILL VOTE FOR HIM, THE OTHER GUY IS BAD," BUT DO THEY ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT EITHER PERSON WILL DO FOR THEM?
GO INDEPENDENTS :-D
GUESS WHY NO ONE IS GOING TO READ YOUR POST

wyldejackyl · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 7137 Location: Chicago, IL

Maybe because he's yelling?