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eynon
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 19950
Location: Minneapolis......
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: This almost makes me believe in the death penalty.......... |
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003390315_webyachtslayings10.html
Quote: Couple tied to yacht anchor, thrown overboard, witness says
By The Associated Press
SANTA ANA, Calif. – A former jail guard testified Thursday about how a husband and wife were killed by being tied to an anchor aboard their yacht and dumped into the ocean.
Alonso Machain said he was on a boat belonging to Thomas and Jackie Hawks when they were killed in late 2004. He said he watched as they were overpowered by two men, bound by duct tape, tied to an anchor and thrown overboard off Southern California.
Machain, 23, testified Wednesday for more than two hours in the trial of Jennifer Deleon, who is charged with two counts of murder and special-circumstance allegations of committing multiple murders for financial gain.
Machain has pleaded not guilty to two counts of murder and acknowledged he hopes for leniency in exchange for his testimony.
Deleon, who was not on board when the couple were killed, has denied wrongdoing. If convicted, she faces life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Her husband, Skylar Deleon, and another man, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, have also been charged with murder but say they are innocent. Both could face the death penalty and are expected to stand trial in January.
Machain testified he stood watch over Jackie Hawks in the kitchen of the main cabin while Skylar Deleon and Kennedy subdued Thomas Hawks in a lower area of the boat.
The ruckus caused Jackie Hawks to try to move past Machain, he said, and she screamed, "What's going on?"
The Hawkses were eventually tied together, still handcuffed, before being fastened to an anchor and dumped overboard, Machain said.
He said the men took cash, jewelry and other valuables from the yacht before heading back to shore.
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Moments before they were killed, Machain said, Jackie Hawks pleaded with her captors to release them.
"She said they just had a new grandchild and she just wanted to see him," Machain said.
The bodies of the Hawkses, of Prescott, Ariz., have not been found.
Prosecutors contend the Deleons were more than $87,500 in debt. They say Skylar Deleon posed as a potential buyer for the yacht and recruited Kennedy and Machain to help abduct and kill the Hawkses, who were forced to sign over the yacht's title and control of more than $1 million in assets to the Deleons.
Prosecutors believe Jennifer Deleon knew beforehand that her husband was going to kill the couple and later helped destroy evidence.
Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company
I don't believe in the death penalty......our judicial system is too flawed IMO to allow for such an ultimate penalty.........how-ever, many who perpetrate such sick crimes as that above are sent to protective custody upon their convictions.......this I am totally opposed too. Abolish the death penalty! Abolish protective custody! |
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Red Flag
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 398
Location: The eye within the one dollar bill.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Just another good reason to own a gun :wink: . |
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TheGirlNextDoor
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 22608
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I'm a supporter of the death penalty.
Quote: Moments before they were killed, Machain said, Jackie Hawks pleaded with her captors to release them.
"She said they just had a new grandchild and she just wanted to see him," Machain said.
Call me an emotional twit if it makes you feel better... but when a person can murder another human being in cold blood with no signs of compassion whatsoever... they deserve nothing less than death.
IMHO. |
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Slythe
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 1662
Location: US of A
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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TheGirlNextDoor wrote: I'm a supporter of the death penalty.
Quote: Moments before they were killed, Machain said, Jackie Hawks pleaded with her captors to release them.
"She said they just had a new grandchild and she just wanted to see him," Machain said.
Call me an emotional twit if it makes you feel better... but when a person can murder another human being in cold blood with no signs of compassion whatsoever... they deserve nothing less than death.
IMHO.
Likewise |
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Enoch
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 9374
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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TheGirlNextDoor wrote: I'm a supporter of the death penalty.
Quote: Moments before they were killed, Machain said, Jackie Hawks pleaded with her captors to release them.
"She said they just had a new grandchild and she just wanted to see him," Machain said.
Call me an emotional twit if it makes you feel better... but when a person can murder another human being in cold blood with no signs of compassion whatsoever... they deserve nothing less than death.
IMHO.
I concur my friend. Those people who show such little regard for the lives of others should not have their lives regarded either. I'm a supporter of Draconian punishments for severe crimes. Murderers should be sentenced to death, in my humble opinion. |
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micfranklin
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 10062
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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TheGirlNextDoor wrote: I'm a supporter of the death penalty.
Quote: Moments before they were killed, Machain said, Jackie Hawks pleaded with her captors to release them.
"She said they just had a new grandchild and she just wanted to see him," Machain said.
Call me an emotional twit if it makes you feel better... but when a person can murder another human being in cold blood with no signs of compassion whatsoever... they deserve nothing less than death.
IMHO.
Anything less than death for these two would show me that our justice system has no credibility. |
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Mare Tranquillity
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 402
Location: Moon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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TheGirlNextDoor wrote: I'm a supporter of the death penalty.
Quote: Moments before they were killed, Machain said, Jackie Hawks pleaded with her captors to release them.
"She said they just had a new grandchild and she just wanted to see him," Machain said.
Call me an emotional twit if it makes you feel better... but when a person can murder another human being in cold blood with no signs of compassion whatsoever... they deserve nothing less than death.
IMHO.
Isn't that exactly what the death penalty is: someone being killed without compassion? It's just a State employee doing it for money instead of someone off the street. |
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NAB
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 13621
Location: Where the stars at night, are big and bright
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow, what a jacked-up story that was. I still waver on the Death Penalty for many different reasons, but I wonder if it would be too good for these people. Wouldn't life in solitary confinement be more of a punishment for them? A quick death for the perps is better than they gave their victims imho. |
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eynon
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 19950
Location: Minneapolis......
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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NAB wrote: Wow, what a jacked-up story that was. I still waver on the Death Penalty for many different reasons, but I wonder if it would be too good for these people. Wouldn't life in solitary confinement be more of a punishment for them? A quick death for the perps is better than they gave their victims imho.
actually I'd put them in general population, perps of really sick crimes such as the one above tend not to do to well there, case in point:
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5456126
Quote: Katie's Revenge" Tattooed on Forehead of Convicted Murderer
Sep 29, 2006 05:01 AM
A man serving life in prison at Wabash Valley Correctional Facility for molesting and killing a Crothersville girl is now part of a Department of Correction investigation.
Thirty-nine-year-old Anthony Stockelman, convicted for the murder of Katie Collman, now has a tattoo that reads "Katie's Revenge" on his forehead.
The photo of what is identified as Stockelman's forehead and eyes appeared online on a blog that focuses on news reports about crimes against children and women. The blogger says she received the photograph in an e-mail last Saturday. She says the e-mail also claimed a distant relative of Katie's who also is at Wabash Valley had given Stockelman the tattoo.
A Department of Correction spokesperson says Stockelman did receive the tattoo while serving time at Wabash Valley. While they won't comment further they do say the incident is under investigation and they have contacted the state police.
that strikes me as far more just then having them spend 15 years in their own private cell awaiting the p***k of a needle........... |
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thundertaker
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 12629
Location: The right side of the Pennines (Lancashire)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Giving a guy a tattoo is punishment? Couldn't he just have thrown some boiling sugar-water in his face like a normal inmate vigiliante? |
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eynon
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 19950
Location: Minneapolis......
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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thundertaker wrote: Giving a guy a tattoo is punishment? Couldn't he just have thrown some boiling sugar-water in his face like a normal inmate vigiliante?
yeesh........negative, negative, negative.......I'm sure the sugar water and shank and broom-stick enema are still to come. |
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Topside
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1793
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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micfranklin wrote: TheGirlNextDoor wrote: I'm a supporter of the death penalty.
Quote: Moments before they were killed, Machain said, Jackie Hawks pleaded with her captors to release them.
"She said they just had a new grandchild and she just wanted to see him," Machain said.
Call me an emotional twit if it makes you feel better... but when a person can murder another human being in cold blood with no signs of compassion whatsoever... they deserve nothing less than death.
IMHO.
Anything less than death for these two would show me that our justice system has no credibility.
Would you say that every other justice system in the Western world has no credibility? |
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ToonArmyIsComing
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 5888
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The important question that should be asked is: What is justice? It seems "an eye for an eye" is just taken for granted. |
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eynon
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 19950
Location: Minneapolis......
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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ToonArmyIsComing wrote: The important question that should be asked is: What is justice? It seems "an eye for an eye" is just taken for granted.
honetly I think the term "justice" really doesn't describe the whole justice system.....it's purpose is not revenge, but rather doing what-ever it takes to make sure that our laws are followed and that citizens are protected.
If "eye for an eye" did that.....that is, truely lowered murder rates........I'd be for it. But I don't think it does. |
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ToonArmyIsComing
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 5888
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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eynon wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: The important question that should be asked is: What is justice? It seems "an eye for an eye" is just taken for granted.
honetly I think the term "justice" really doesn't describe the whole justice system.....it's purpose is not revenge, but rather doing what-ever it takes to make sure that our laws are followed and that citizens are protected.
If "eye for an eye" did that.....that is, truely lowered murder rates........I'd be for it. But I don't think it does.
If that is the case, then incarceration and TRUE life sentences are better as it keeps criminals away from the public and also doesn't lead to a situation where when mistakes are made, it can never be undone [as in death penalty]. |
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Protostar
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 9630
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| The death penalty solves nothing. It is nothing more than petty revenge, IMHO. I'm a supporter of life of hard labor. That way if the person is proved innocent they can at least be released, once their innocence is proved. You can't revive an innocent wo/man who has been executed. |
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eynon
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 19950
Location: Minneapolis......
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: |
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ToonArmyIsComing wrote: eynon wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: The important question that should be asked is: What is justice? It seems "an eye for an eye" is just taken for granted.
honetly I think the term "justice" really doesn't describe the whole justice system.....it's purpose is not revenge, but rather doing what-ever it takes to make sure that our laws are followed and that citizens are protected.
If "eye for an eye" did that.....that is, truely lowered murder rates........I'd be for it. But I don't think it does.
If that is the case, then incarceration and TRUE life sentences are better as it keeps criminals away from the public and also doesn't lead to a situation where when mistakes are made, it can never be undone [as in death penalty].
I agree........ |
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seahawk37
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Protostar wrote: The death penalty solves nothing. It is nothing more than petty revenge, IMHO. I'm a supporter of life of hard labor. That way if the person is proved innocent they can at least be released, once their innocence is proved. You can't revive an innocent wo/man who has been executed.
I like your idea of a "life of hard labor." I say that for his 15 years of appeals he does hard labor and then when he loses his appeal he still gets the needle. That's just me... |
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John Galt
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 21641
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Mare Tranquillity wrote: TheGirlNextDoor wrote: I'm a supporter of the death penalty.
Quote: Moments before they were killed, Machain said, Jackie Hawks pleaded with her captors to release them.
"She said they just had a new grandchild and she just wanted to see him," Machain said.
Call me an emotional twit if it makes you feel better... but when a person can murder another human being in cold blood with no signs of compassion whatsoever... they deserve nothing less than death.
IMHO.
Isn't that exactly what the death penalty is: someone being killed without compassion? It's just a State employee doing it for money instead of someone off the street.
No, it is punishment. |
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Ek0nomik
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: La Fleur
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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The biological aspect of someone willing to hurt another human being is what I am most interested in.
I voted against the death penalty in Wisconsin on November 7th, and always will.
An eye for an eye is a strong contradiction. |
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