Political Crossfire Forums

[hammerhead]

When the GOP took control of congress they promised fiscal responsibility. The national dept is a gazillion dollars and counting. The republicans have not delivered on any conservative principle in the six years they have controlled all parts of the government.

Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference? I doubt it considering the fact that the only 3 planks in their otherwise nonexistent agenda is "Bush is stupid," we can't fight our enemies, and the world is coming to an end if we don't pull suv's off the road in 10 years.

I would really like to see good, lengthy refutations of this viewpoint. No self respecting intellectual is going to stand up on this forum and honestly say that democrats are not the other side of the same coin as the republicans.

If you really care vote third party.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: If you really care vote third party.

Gotta have a viable third party that does not consist of fringe whackos first.

[gemma]

hammerhead wrote: Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference?

You may as well ask the question, "Does anyone believe campaign promises?"

No, I do not think anyone actually expects democrats to make that big a difference. This election was a middle-finger to the way things have been done for the past 6 years. All I can think, is it can't get that much worse; and only hope for better.

Rummy is already gone; that's a step in the right direction IMHO.

[mODULAR mAN]

hammerhead wrote: When the GOP took control of congress they promised fiscal responsibility. The national dept is a gazillion dollars and counting. The republicans have not delivered on any conservative principle in the six years they have controlled all parts of the government.

Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference? I doubt it considering the fact that the only 3 planks in their otherwise nonexistent agenda is "Bush is stupid," we can't fight our enemies, and the world is coming to an end if we don't pull suv's off the road in 10 years.

I would really like to see good, lengthy refutations of this viewpoint. No self respecting intellectual is going to stand up on this forum and honestly say that democrats are not the other side of the same coin as the republicans.

If you really care vote third party.

Umm, elections were Tuesday.... :?

[lucidnightmare]

mODULAR mAN wrote: hammerhead wrote: When the GOP took control of congress they promised fiscal responsibility. The national dept is a gazillion dollars and counting. The republicans have not delivered on any conservative principle in the six years they have controlled all parts of the government.

Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference? I doubt it considering the fact that the only 3 planks in their otherwise nonexistent agenda is "Bush is stupid," we can't fight our enemies, and the world is coming to an end if we don't pull suv's off the road in 10 years.

I would really like to see good, lengthy refutations of this viewpoint. No self respecting intellectual is going to stand up on this forum and honestly say that democrats are not the other side of the same coin as the republicans.

If you really care vote third party.

Umm, elections were Tuesday.... :?

That may be why third parties can't get anywhere. They just show up to vote late.

[wayne]

I called the league of women voters to find out if they could provide me with a list of the names of any third party candidates. They could not.
However, the woman on the phone said she had written in on her ballot last election "one old possum" for president. This could refer to either of the candidates who would roll over and play dead.

I would have voted for a third party candidate in most of the bids if I'd known who they were. The only different candidate was a socialist party member running against some tired Republican for the house. Maybe I should have just left that one blank. Unfortunately, I voted for the tired elephant.

I did vote Democrat in Pa Senate race...Casey over Santorum....don't know why except that Santorum voted himself a payraise...
I am sure we will see Santorum running for something else in the future.

I picked Lynn Swann over Ed the Liberal, Gambling buffoon Rendell.
Rendell had promised to do something about hospitalization and the medical problems before he was elected last time. As you may have noticed nothing got done there, but we did get the biggest gambling contract since Las Vegas.
Rendell lied on his infomercials and said he reduced our taxes....WHAT? Where and when and show me where.

The Democrats will do nothing good when they take over, but at least I can complain.

[Rankor and Pissing]

Historically speaking... no... I'm not expecting much to change.

[MindlessSheep]

Unless there is a drastic change in thinking in both parties, the next two years will produce 0 results. The current radicalized leaderships in both parties are so polarizing, that I can't see either of them getting together for the benefit of the country. In the end, we need an overhaul of the way our government is run (ie no more lobbyists and constant streams of money flowing into capital hill).

[Angelicus]

No there won't be any change. It will be hypocrisy as usual for the Dems. I mean we are already seeing it. The Dems crying foul, over the Republicans making the exact same criticisms the Dems made for the past six years. No, there won't be any change at all.

:lol:

[jmac87]

The only way anything will get done is if the parties stop pointing the finger at one another and try to work together. I think the answer to our problems is neither a democratic or republican solution. Third party candidates are going to gain more and more attention in the future. Especially after the people realize that democrats cant make anything better. In six years when the war isn't over and nothing has changed there will be nowhere else to go. We need somebody with fresh ideas and big brass balls that won't be afraid to speak their mind. Who gives a flying f*&^ about approval ratings anyways. The majority of the american population only knows what they see on fox news and cnn. Lets face it, media is a business and whether people realize it or not they are after one thing, PROFIT. They only report what people want to hear.

[perdidochas]

hammerhead wrote: When the GOP took control of congress they promised fiscal responsibility. The national dept is a gazillion dollars and counting. The republicans have not delivered on any conservative principle in the six years they have controlled all parts of the government.

The GOP in the late 1990s did bring fiscal responsibility, at least for the first 6 yrs or so....

hammerhead wrote: Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference? I doubt it considering the fact that the only 3 planks in their otherwise nonexistent agenda is "Bush is stupid," we can't fight our enemies, and the world is coming to an end if we don't pull suv's off the road in 10 years.

I would really like to see good, lengthy refutations of this viewpoint. No self respecting intellectual is going to stand up on this forum and honestly say that democrats are not the other side of the same coin as the republicans.

If you really care vote third party.

Voting 3rd party is futile, and it just screws up the party that is the closest to your views. Green party voting was bad for the dems. Ross Perot's party was bad for the republicans.

[MindlessSheep]

It seems like everybody here agrees that nothing is really going to happen over the next two years unless somebody (or sombodies) from either party step forward to work at uniting ideals. My question would be, who could those people potentially be?

[The Grandmaster]

hammerhead wrote: Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference?

Yes. You will see the minimum wage go up where before that was impossible. Millions will live better for their labor now. You will see freedom threatening entities like the Patriot Act fail to get passed now. You will see ludicrous laws stop getting passed like the online gambling ban. (I love how they chained this to the ports bill, f**k you Frist.).

To me, it wasn’t so much a matter of seeing things change, it was a matter of keeping things from getting worse.

[mattman42]

The Grandmaster wrote: hammerhead wrote: Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference?

Yes. You will see the minimum wage go up where before that was impossible. Millions will live better for their labor now. You will see freedom threatening entities like the Patriot Act fail to get passed now. You will see ludicrous laws stop getting passed like the online gambling ban. (I love how they chained this to the ports bill, f**k you Frist.).

To me, it wasn’t so much a matter of seeing things change, it was a matter of keeping things from getting worse.

On the other hand we'll probably see some harsh gun control laws passed as we move closer to socialism. The Republicans weren't doing either, but were instead screwing us in different ways. Could it be that both parties are bad for us, just in different ways?

[perdidochas]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: If you really care vote third party.

Gotta have a viable third party that does not consist of fringe whackos first.

Well, none of the current third parties will do...... (and it explains why none of them are viable)

[perdidochas]

The Grandmaster wrote: hammerhead wrote: Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference?

Yes. You will see the minimum wage go up where before that was impossible. Millions will live better for their labor now. You will see freedom threatening entities like the Patriot Act fail to get passed now. You will see ludicrous laws stop getting passed like the online gambling ban. (I love how they chained this to the ports bill, f**k you Frist.).

To me, it wasn’t so much a matter of seeing things change, it was a matter of keeping things from getting worse.

Hmm, only 1% of workers now make at or below the minimum wage. How is raising the minimum wage going to do much?

Bill Clinton proposed a Patriot act Lite, when he was president. It got nowhere in a Republican House. Why? Pre-9/11 it wasn't appropriate.

Are there really people stupid enough to gamble online? Why is this an important issue for anyone (eitehr side of it).

[The Grandmaster]

mattman42 wrote:
On the other hand we'll probably see some harsh gun control laws passed as we move closer to socialism. The Republicans weren't doing either, but were instead screwing us in different ways. Could it be that both parties are bad for us, just in different ways?

I don't think you're going to see strict gun control laws passed, especially since i have heard nothing of this on the agenda, and many of the new Democratic elects are very moderate, and not as left leaning as the ones I think you are thinking of.


perdidochas wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: hammerhead wrote: Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference?

Yes. You will see the minimum wage go up where before that was impossible. Millions will live better for their labor now. You will see freedom threatening entities like the Patriot Act fail to get passed now. You will see ludicrous laws stop getting passed like the online gambling ban. (I love how they chained this to the ports bill, f**k you Frist.).

To me, it wasn’t so much a matter of seeing things change, it was a matter of keeping things from getting worse.

Hmm, only 1% of workers now make at or below the minimum wage.

Really? I'm very happy to hear that.

perdidochas wrote: How is raising the minimum wage going to do much?

It won't do a whole lot, and it's not going to drastically improve the lives of those who do work at that rate. But it will, at the very least, keep their heads a little more above water, which is something.

perdidochas wrote: Bill Clinton proposed a Patriot act Lite, when he was president. It got nowhere in a Republican House. Why? Pre-9/11 it wasn't appropriate.

And Bill wasn't perfect either. While the act has not had a serious effect upon my life, I still reserved the right to be concerned about things like this that could possibly result in further breeches of freedom if it were so desired.

perdidochas wrote: Are there really people stupid enough to gamble online?

Absolutely. I, and millions of other are definitely stupid enough to gamble online. I actually planned on, within a few months of the ridiculous bill, taking some of my money which I had earned and reserve the right to do with as I wish, and betting on some of the UFC fights. Millions bet on poker as a hobby. Yes Perdidy, there are millions of us stupid enough to bet online who should have the right to lose or win till our hearts content.

Something else....oh yeah... It is merely your opinion that online gambling is stupid. For millions of us, it is an enjoyable passtime.

perdidochas wrote: Why is this an important issue for anyone (eitehr side of it).

Is that how you feel about anything you "don't need" for your life being banned?

Why is it important? How about because I want to do it? And it's my money, and it doesn't hurt you?

[thintheherd]

The Grandmaster wrote: perdidochas wrote: Are there really people stupid enough to gamble online?

Absolutely. I, and millions of other are definitely stupid enough to gamble online. I actually planned on, within a few months of the ridiculous bill, taking some of my money which I had earned and reserve the right to do with as I wish, and betting on some of the UFC fights. Millions bet on poker as a hobby. Yes Perdidy, there are millions of us stupid enough to bet online who should have the right to lose or win till our hearts content.

Something else....oh yeah... It is merely your opinion that online gambling is stupid. For millions of us, it is an enjoyable passtime.

perdidochas wrote: Why is this an important issue for anyone (eitehr side of it).

Is that how you feel about anything you "don't need" for your life being banned?

Why is it important? How about because I want to do it? And it's my money, and it doesn't hurt you?
Beat me too it- Bravo!

Who are they to deny us the pleasure of winning, or pain of seperating ourselves from our hard-earned disposible income?

[Demonic Spoon]

hammerhead wrote: When the GOP took control of congress they promised fiscal responsibility. The national dept is a gazillion dollars and counting. The republicans have not delivered on any conservative principle in the six years they have controlled all parts of the government.

Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference? I doubt it considering the fact that the only 3 planks in their otherwise nonexistent agenda is "Bush is stupid," we can't fight our enemies, and the world is coming to an end if we don't pull suv's off the road in 10 years.

I would really like to see good, lengthy refutations of this viewpoint. No self respecting intellectual is going to stand up on this forum and honestly say that democrats are not the other side of the same coin as the republicans.

If you really care vote third party.

Yes, I expect change. I expect Republican socialist BS to be replaced by Democrat socialist BS. That doesn't make it any better, though.

[perdidochas]

The Grandmaster wrote: mattman42 wrote:
On the other hand we'll probably see some harsh gun control laws passed as we move closer to socialism. The Republicans weren't doing either, but were instead screwing us in different ways. Could it be that both parties are bad for us, just in different ways?

I don't think you're going to see strict gun control laws passed, especially since i have heard nothing of this on the agenda, and many of the new Democratic elects are very moderate, and not as left leaning as the ones I think you are thinking of.


perdidochas wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: hammerhead wrote: Does anyone actually expect democrats to make a difference?

Yes. You will see the minimum wage go up where before that was impossible. Millions will live better for their labor now. You will see freedom threatening entities like the Patriot Act fail to get passed now. You will see ludicrous laws stop getting passed like the online gambling ban. (I love how they chained this to the ports bill, f**k you Frist.).

To me, it wasn’t so much a matter of seeing things change, it was a matter of keeping things from getting worse.

Hmm, only 1% of workers now make at or below the minimum wage.

Really? I'm very happy to hear that.

perdidochas wrote: How is raising the minimum wage going to do much?

It won't do a whole lot, and it's not going to drastically improve the lives of those who do work at that rate. But it will, at the very least, keep their heads a little more above water, which is something.

perdidochas wrote: Bill Clinton proposed a Patriot act Lite, when he was president. It got nowhere in a Republican House. Why? Pre-9/11 it wasn't appropriate.

And Bill wasn't perfect either. While the act has not had a serious effect upon my life, I still reserved the right to be concerned about things like this that could possibly result in further breeches of freedom if it were so desired.

perdidochas wrote: Are there really people stupid enough to gamble online?

Absolutely. I, and millions of other are definitely stupid enough to gamble online. I actually planned on, within a few months of the ridiculous bill, taking some of my money which I had earned and reserve the right to do with as I wish, and betting on some of the UFC fights. Millions bet on poker as a hobby. Yes Perdidy, there are millions of us stupid enough to bet online who should have the right to lose or win till our hearts content.

Something else....oh yeah... It is merely your opinion that online gambling is stupid. For millions of us, it is an enjoyable passtime.

Gambling in itself isn't stupid. However, online casino gambling is. (Betting on fights is a different issue).

The Grandmaster wrote: perdidochas wrote: Why is this an important issue for anyone (eitehr side of it).

Is that how you feel about anything you "don't need" for your life being banned?

Why is it important? How about because I want to do it? And it's my money, and it doesn't hurt you?

As I said, I really don't care either way. It doesn't bother me that it was banned, nor would it bother me if it was legal. I just don't care.