Political Crossfire Forums

[F'losrix]

I'm curious what other gay PCF members think of the Lounge. I think it's well on it's way to becoming a sort of het/anti-gay boys club. Not horrible (yet), but less than friendly. Everytime I go in there, I'm reminded of why I tend to stay away from it - without fail I stumble across someone resorting to anti-gay remarks, who thinks it's perfectly acceptable to use the Lounge as a place to offer up anti-gay insults.

Yes, I know y'all probably think I have unrealistic expectations or that I'm being thin-skinned. The truth is, I don't expect the Lounge to be a welcoming place - not when we remain largely unwelcome in greater society, very generally speaking.

Do you think it's worth pointing out incidents that serve to make the Lounge unfriendly to gay PCF members? Or do you think it's a waste of time and that we should just resign ourselves to the fact that anti-gay sentiment is so completely entrenched that it's not worth combatting in the Lounge?

I go back and forth between thinking we need to exert some muscle there, to thinking we should just abandon it as a lost cause.

[John Galt]

Please report such instances if you see them.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

F'losrix wrote: I'm curious what other gay PCF members think of the Lounge. I think it's well on it's way to becoming a sort of het/anti-gay boys club. Not horrible (yet), but less than friendly. Everytime I go in there, I'm reminded of why I tend to stay away from it - without fail I stumble across someone resorting to anti-gay remarks, who thinks it's perfectly acceptable to use the Lounge as a place to offer up anti-gay insults.

I haven't read anything on the Lounge lately, so I can't comment about anything that is posted recently. I just go there to discuss football or soccer usually [and bash baseball].

But I have seen anti-gay comments from time to time.

F'losrix wrote: Yes, I know y'all probably think I have unrealistic expectations or that I'm being thin-skinned. The truth is, I don't expect the Lounge to be a welcoming place - not when we remain largely unwelcome in greater society, very generally speaking.

Do you think it's worth pointing out incidents that serve to make the Lounge unfriendly to gay PCF members? Or do you think it's a waste of time and that we should just resign ourselves to the fact that anti-gay sentiment is so completely entrenched that it's not worth combatting in the Lounge?

I go back and forth between thinking we need to exert some muscle there, to thinking we should just abandon it as a lost cause.

I am probably not the best person to answer this because I still haven't gotten over my own persistent feelings of guilt and shame. However, I don't think combating homophobia is a lost cause, but it will be a painfully slow process because when it comes to homosexuals, I've found that people are unwilling to change their views even though now many are now tolerating homosexuality as something that is done in private. That's why in real life, I am really careful not to "flaunt it". What really bothers me is that some people are really disgusted by anything homosexual and ridicule it [even people who tolerate homosexuality do this from time to time].

As for changing the views on this forum, I think most we can do is to articulate our position. Unfortunately, many are so deaf that they just ignore it and continue with their stupid comments. :-|

[Babylon_Horuv]

I'm straight so i didn't answer the poll. I also don't go in the lounge. I get on here to discuss politcs and if someone wants to talk to me personally they can send me private messages. It is a shame if the lounge is homophobic and bigoted. I know those in the lounge are cutting themselves off from some interesting people as many of the most intelligent posts I have seen, on various subjects, come from Enoch, Skeptical Mystic (I don't know what Flosorix means, so I am going with your old name) and Toon Army.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Amusingly I've been posting in the lounge. When I had a rainbow flag as my avatar, I was ignored, but with no avatar, people are actually responding to me!!! Now, you make your own conclusions from that...

[Enoch]

I've never had any issues in the lounge...but, maybe that's just me.

[F'losrix]

Babylon_Horuv wrote: Skeptical Mystic (I don't know what Flosorix means, so I am going with your old name)
F'losrix doesn't actually mean anything. It's just a corruption of the name of a character in a sci fi/fantasy book I started to write (and abandoned after about 4 or 5 chapters) years ago. That character was more or less representative of my 'alter ego'.

I switched mainly because I wanted a user name that had more personal meaning for me, and something that wouldn't lead people to make wrong assumptions about me just from my username.

[Kt]

F'losrix wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: Skeptical Mystic (I don't know what Flosorix means, so I am going with your old name)
F'losrix doesn't actually mean anything. It's just a corruption of the name of a character in a sci fi/fantasy book I started to write (and abandoned after about 4 or 5 chapters) years ago. That character was more or less representative of my 'alter ego'.

I switched mainly because I wanted a user name that had more personal meaning for me, and something that wouldn't lead people to make wrong assumptions about me just from my username.
Who R u!? R u a n00b?

As for the lounge I don't see it any more unfriendly than the rest of pcf, humans are fairly unfriendly to other humans most of the time, for whatever reason. But then I'm not gay, I just want to ruin your poll numbers, muahahaha!

[John Galt]

Helena that is not helpful at all, don't post like that again.

[spearsy23]

A few weeks ago i posted a thread about eye color using the wording "What color of eyes do you prefer on the opposite sex" and you replied with a "I'm sorry i didn't realize this topic was for straight people only" Apparently you took that as an attack on homosexuals even though it wasn't meant to be. I don't know if this is part of what you're referring to but i'm not going to apologize because i used opposite sex which is correct for most of the population. Basically what i'm saying is some of the things you get so sensitive about aren't meant to be an attack at all. I hesitate to say grow a thicker skin because it cannot be easy being gay in a society that for the most part is not accepting of it, however i do say don't always assume something is an attack on you or other gay men and women.

[F'losrix]

spearsy23 wrote: A few weeks ago i posted a thread about eye color using the wording "What color of eyes do you prefer on the opposite sex" and you replied with a "I'm sorry i didn't realize this topic was for straight people only" Apparently you took that as an attack on homosexuals even though it wasn't meant to be. I don't know if this is part of what you're referring to but i'm not going to apologize because i used opposite sex which is correct for most of the population. Basically what i'm saying is some of the things you get so sensitive about aren't meant to be an attack at all. I hesitate to say grow a thicker skin because it cannot be easy being gay in a society that for the most part is not accepting of it, however i do say don't always assume something is an attack on you or other gay men and women.
I didn't consider it an attack.

The thing is, we end up being excluded from a lot of stuff, thanks to the naturally 'heterocentric' nature of our society. We're treated as if we're invisible, don't exist, aren't welcome, are outsiders, etc. I'm just sick of being ostracized and marginalized this way.

It's easy for people who aren't having this experience to just spout the fact that we're a minority and tell us to 'deal with it'. My way of 'dealing with it' has been to speak out against acts that perpetuate the exclusion of homosexuals from participation, wherever those acts occur, as a way to raise people's consciousness on the issue.

What I have come to understand is that to most heterosexuals, we are largely invisible. And they like it that way - having to acknowledge that we have an existence that doesn't fit into some negative stereotype is apparently very disturbing to a great many of them.

The message is clear - we aren't welcome, merely tolerated (and barely that). We might as well separate ourselves from the rest of society as much as we can, since we're never going to be integrated into it.

Have you ever been unexpectedly excluded from something, experiencing an intense feeling of painful rejection that hurts your self esteem and makes you question what you did wrong to deserve such treatement - maybe even to question who you are as a person? Most people encounter this at some point in their lives. The usual response is to eventually 'suck it up' and move on.

Now, take the pain of feeling that exclusion, and think about how it must feel to someone who has to deal with that kind of rejection from most of society, daily in their lives. There's no moving on, because there's no place to escape from it - it follows you everywhere.

^ That, is what it's like to be gay. No one expects to develop this difference in orientation. There is no describing the damage to one's image of self that comes from owning the expectation of constant rejection. We fight against it because we have to in order to survive. Far too many of us give up that fight and take our lives. Ever had a friend commit suicide? I have - my best friend, 6 years ago. The reason? The shaming & stygma associated with being gay was a big part of it.

I can see where someone might think it's no big deal, that being different we should just expect to be treated accordingly.

I'm here to tell you that it IS a big deal when it's so pervasive that it haunts you through your daily life.