Political Crossfire Forums

[Lucky Luke]

wyldejackyl wrote: I think it's time to get rid of the two-party system and usher in some of the Libertarian Party. Seems you either have to deal with republicans and all their disasters, or the democrats and all their disasters that infringe on our freedoms. Your damned if you do, and damned if you don't no matter how you vote.

I think if another gun ban is proposed, people should stand up and flat out SHOW how statistics prove that a gun ban is worthless, using the data from the last one as proof. I wish politicians would stop "banning" every goddamned thing instead and work on solutions to problems..not prevent the ownership of mere inanimate objects. Am I the only one that thinks this is asinine? That and the campaign commercials that all they do is talk trash about the other candidate. Instead they should focus on what they can do for us, not what the other guy is doing for himself. Ridiculous..what is this, 5th grade? I think this election was yet another sham. It's like choosing between dog sh!t and cat sh!t for dinner..one has to be better than the other if you're really hungry, but there's no reason not to have something better entirely offered along with it. What does it take to run for office? The punchcards should have more than two choices. Hell, I'll run. It's getting to the point where people need to stand up and do something.

I say bring it on, it was a success in 1994, it can be a repeat of this great success. One could hope for the American murder rate to be in line with other murder rates in the rest of the western democratic world.



Statistics proved it then, they will prove it again that gun control works.

:-D
:-D

[wyldejackyl]

DId you not read my post? I said it was worthless. Quit peddling your "shows all" graph in favor of policies that only work for oppressive governments.

[Hank Rearden]

mODULAR mAN wrote: micfranklin wrote: The democrats won? Sorry, I was too tired from studying to stay up and watch the results.

Hell, with everything you just described they may just end up banning guns altogether.

C'mon! you guys are nuts. They have never tried to ban guns any more than Republicans try to ban gay marriage.

It's too good of an issue to get people out to vote, and only a minority of Americans want it.

The election is over - stop with the fear mongering already. you will be able to keep and shoot your pretty little bang sticks.

So...you're kind of speaking from personal experience, living in an area that has been ruled by a democratic leadership for decades. Tell me, when was the last time you, or someone you know, went out shooting in the city? How many people do you know that own guns, or perhaps that just bought one in say the last couple of weeks?

The fear that we have is that the rest of the country is going down the same drain with respect to personal freedoms that NYC did a long time ago.

[Rankor and Pissing]

Lucky Luke wrote: wyldejackyl wrote: I think it's time to get rid of the two-party system and usher in some of the Libertarian Party. Seems you either have to deal with republicans and all their disasters, or the democrats and all their disasters that infringe on our freedoms. Your damned if you do, and damned if you don't no matter how you vote.

I think if another gun ban is proposed, people should stand up and flat out SHOW how statistics prove that a gun ban is worthless, using the data from the last one as proof. I wish politicians would stop "banning" every goddamned thing instead and work on solutions to problems..not prevent the ownership of mere inanimate objects. Am I the only one that thinks this is asinine? That and the campaign commercials that all they do is talk trash about the other candidate. Instead they should focus on what they can do for us, not what the other guy is doing for himself. Ridiculous..what is this, 5th grade? I think this election was yet another sham. It's like choosing between dog sh!t and cat sh!t for dinner..one has to be better than the other if you're really hungry, but there's no reason not to have something better entirely offered along with it. What does it take to run for office? The punchcards should have more than two choices. Hell, I'll run. It's getting to the point where people need to stand up and do something.

I say bring it on, it was a success in 1994, it can be a repeat of this great success. One could hope for the American murder rate to be in line with other murder rates in the rest of the western democratic world.



Statistics proved it then, they will prove it again that gun control works.

:-D
:-D

Ahh... I needed my fix this week... what would I do without the all-purpose non-sense chart!

:rotf:

[Lucky Luke]

wyldejackyl wrote: DId you not read my post? I said it was worthless. Quit peddling your "shows all" graph in favor of policies that only work for oppressive governments.

5,000 to 8,000 American lives saved a year is not worthless Wyldejackyl but a great success.

:-D
:-D

[the prophet]

Anyone not concerned with the current state of the house and senate are fools. Look at the latest poll showing Hillary Clinton in the 2nd spot for the Democratic presidential nomination. She doesnt have to say a word about guns. She will do what her husband did and change colors. She will blast Edwards off the political stage and could very well be the next president of the United states.!! That should scare the Hell out of every gun owner in this country. Clinton, Pelosi, Conyers God help us all. I dont see how conyers keeps getting elected here in Michigan. Most of the democrats here are union guys who love thier guns and hunting and such. I think its time for a wake up call about his attempts to ban hand guns. the Prophet

[Thrilla]

preempt any law changes by purchasing your firearms in the near future.... i have plans on adding somewhere between 3 and 6 new additions to the arsenal

break out the donations to the NRA, SAF,and TNUSA... they might have a fight on their hands coming up and they will need the funds


its always advisable to "get while the getting is good"

[evil muppet]

Lucky Luke wrote: wyldejackyl wrote: DId you not read my post? I said it was worthless. Quit peddling your "shows all" graph in favor of policies that only work for oppressive governments.

5,000 to 8,000 American lives saved a year is not worthless Wyldejackyl but a great success.

:-D
:-D

5,000-8,000 out of 300,000,000 nothing.

[Lucky Luke]

evil muppet wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: wyldejackyl wrote: DId you not read my post? I said it was worthless. Quit peddling your "shows all" graph in favor of policies that only work for oppressive governments.

5,000 to 8,000 American lives saved a year is not worthless Wyldejackyl but a great success.

:-D
:-D

5,000-8,000 out of 300,000,000 nothing.

If 5,000 to 8,000 American lives lost a year, every year, year after year is nothing to you Evil Muppet, there is no argument to have with you. You chose your name right, just don't tell me that guns are protecting American lives because you made it clear that you just don't care about American lives.

:-D
:-D

[micfranklin]

Lucky Luke wrote: evil muppet wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: wyldejackyl wrote: DId you not read my post? I said it was worthless. Quit peddling your "shows all" graph in favor of policies that only work for oppressive governments.

5,000 to 8,000 American lives saved a year is not worthless Wyldejackyl but a great success.

:-D
:-D

5,000-8,000 out of 300,000,000 nothing.

If 5,000 to 8,000 American lives lost a year, every year, year after year is nothing to you Evil Muppet, there is no argument to have with you. You chose your name right, just don't tell me that guns are protecting American lives because you made it clear that you just don't care about American lives.

:-D
:-D

I hope you're not saying the use of guns doesn't protect American lives :? , because that's simply appauling.

[leftneckredwing]

Thrilla wrote: preempt any law changes by purchasing your firearms in the near future.... i have plans on adding somewhere between 3 and 6 new additions to the arsenal

break out the donations to the NRA, SAF,and TNUSA... they might have a fight on their hands coming up and they will need the funds


its always advisable to "get while the getting is good"

Advice taken.

[Lucky Luke]

micfranklin wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: evil muppet wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: wyldejackyl wrote: DId you not read my post? I said it was worthless. Quit peddling your "shows all" graph in favor of policies that only work for oppressive governments.

5,000 to 8,000 American lives saved a year is not worthless Wyldejackyl but a great success.

:-D
:-D

5,000-8,000 out of 300,000,000 nothing.

If 5,000 to 8,000 American lives lost a year, every year, year after year is nothing to you Evil Muppet, there is no argument to have with you. You chose your name right, just don't tell me that guns are protecting American lives because you made it clear that you just don't care about American lives.

:-D
:-D

I hope you're not saying the use of guns doesn't protect American lives :? , because that's simply appauling.

I am saying Evil Muppet can't claim that he cares if they do or not because Evil Muppet said that 5,000 to 8,000 American lives lost per year, every year are not worth debating in a gun control forum.

However I am indeed claiming that guns and particularly handguns are more a danger to the American people's lives than a protection to those lives.

:-D
:-D

[evil muppet]

Lucky Luke, like everyone else here, I doubt your claims. Your numbers are bogus numbers. You are the worse kind of fool in that you continue to regurgitate unconvincing data as if it were holy gospel. Why don't you do us all a favor and stop being a F**K** coward and identify your god damned source of your information.

stop peddling a bunch of bulls**t like you are getting this from some government website because I've looked and I cannot find them. You are a fraud, a fool and a liar.

[Lucky Luke]

evil muppet wrote: Lucky Luke, like everyone else here, I doubt your claims. Your numbers are bogus numbers. You are the worse kind of fool in that you continue to regurgitate unconvincing data as if it were holy gospel. Why don't you do us all a favor and stop being a F**K** coward and identify your god damned source of your information.

stop peddling a bunch of bulls**t like you are getting this from some government website because I've looked and I cannot find them. You are a fraud, a fool and a liar.

Don't doubt Evil Muppet, follow the link and learn:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

Here it is for you to see that those numbers are not mine and not bogus:

Quote: Homicides are most often committed with guns,
especially handguns
Like the homicide rate generally, gun-involved incidents increased sharply in the late 1980's and early 1990's before falling to a low in 1999. The number of gun-involved homicides increased after that to levels experienced in the mid 1980's.
During this same time period, homicides involving weapons other than firearms have declined slowly.

To view the data, click on the chart Evil Muppet and you will find it:

Quote: Weapons used
To the chart based on these data | Download spreadsheet version (.csv file)

Homicides by Weapon Type

..Handgun..Other..Knife..Blunt..Other
.................gun............object..weapon

1976 8,651 3,328 3,343 912 2,546
1977 8,563 3,391 3,648 900 2,618
1978 8,879 3,569 3,685 937 2,490
1979 9,858 3,732 4,121 1,039 2,710
1980 10,552 3,834 4,439 1,153 3,061
1981 10,324 3,740 4,364 1,166 2,927
1982 9,137 3,501 4,383 1,032 2,957
1983 8,472 2,794 4,214 1,098 2,731
1984 8,183 2,835 3,956 1,090 2,626
1985 8,165 2,973 3,996 1,051 2,794
1986 9,054 3,126 4,235 1,176 3,018
1987 8,781 3,094 4,076 1,169 2,980
1988 9,375 3,162 3,978 1,296 2,869
1989 10,225 3,197 3,923 1,279 2,877
1990 11,677 3,395 4,077 1,254 3,037
1991 13,101 3,277 3,909 1,252 3,161
1992 13,158 3,043 3,447 1,088 3,024
1993 13,981 3,094 3,140 1,082 3,233
1994 13,496 2,840 2,960 963 3,071
1995 12,050 2,679 2,731 981 3,169
1996 10,731 2,533 2,691 917 2,777
1997 9,705 2,631 2,363 833 2,678
1998 8,844 2,168 2,257 896 2,805
1999 7,943 2,174 2,042 902 2,461
2000 7,985 2,218 2,099 727 2,556
2001 7,900 2,239 2,090 776 3,032
2002 8,286 2,538 2,018 773 2,588
2003 8,830 2,223 2,085 745 2,645
2004 8,299 2,355 2,132 759 2,593

Source: FBI, Supplementary Homicide Reports, 1976-2004.
See also Additional Information About the Data for details about weighting and imputation

Where is the fraud Evil Muppet, where are the lies, who is the fool?

:-D
:-D

[mattman42]

So exactly what about your info proves that gun control led to a decline in homicide? You can't reasonably attribute that fall of murder rates from an all-time high solely to gun control which you yourself have conceded has very little, if any, effect on crime rates.

[thintheherd]

mattman42 wrote: So exactly what about your info proves that gun control led to a decline in homicide? You can't reasonably attribute that fall of murder rates from an all-time high solely to gun control which you yourself have conceded has very little, if any, effect on crime rates.
Yeah... he usually skips that little tid-bit of info.

<waits for Lucy to tell M42 he's wrong for 'just looking at the last part of the chart'. :lol: >

[Onevote]

Blinky wrote: Freedom_Isnt_Free wrote: Now this is gonna make me sound crazy but this is what I beleive:

The second amendment states that, "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
If the liberals try and take that right away from it's time to rise up and defend our freedom...

New Orleans... Great food! Also a good example of what your Government will do to you if given the chance. Violate the Constitution, violate your rights, steal your property. If I'm not mistaken this is one of the main arguments of the pro freedom crowd, and the very reason the second amendment was written into the Constitution .

[Hank Rearden]

Lucky Luke wrote:
Don't doubt Evil Muppet, follow the link and learn:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

Here it is for you to see that those numbers are not mine and not bogus:

Quote: Homicides are most often committed with guns,
especially handguns
Like the homicide rate generally, gun-involved incidents increased sharply in the late 1980's and early 1990's before falling to a low in 1999. The number of gun-involved homicides increased after that to levels experienced in the mid 1980's.
During this same time period, homicides involving weapons other than firearms have declined slowly.


You do realize that firearms that fell under the umbrella of the "assault weapons ban" were legal and available well before the late 80's, and that the AWB was in effect until '04? The conclusion above, that by '99 the firearm related homicide rate returned to a level of the mid 80's and leveled off, would tend to show that the AWB didn't effect crime. If it did, the rate would be much lower than prior to these firearms being avaliable. Also, the nations murder rate started trending downward some 2 years before the AWB went into effect.

The passing of the AWB pushed alot of people that kind of wanted guns that fit under this classification to go get them while they could, I picked up a couple ARs and FALs just prior to it going into effect. Sales of these firearms increased dramatically just prior to the AWB, according to several sources. If these weapons had any impact on crime you should have seen a big spike in the homicide rate at this time, not the continuous decline that your sources show.

LL I really enjoy it when you provide data that proves our point.

HR

[the prophet]

Well said Hank, I like you already :) I also have few toys purchased just before the ban.For Lucky Luke, I see you are from Scotland. Here in (our) world where (we) live Criminals buy guns from criminal sources. These are all used to kill people illegally :shock: :shock: . Gun control only affects law abiding citizens like myself who use them to protect ourselves from these criminals who would rape, pillage and kill us all if we were not armed.(savvy??) Your tables and stats mean nothing because they are all related to hand guns obtained illegally by criminals(savvy??) Gun control only took away the right to defend themselves from some of those who were shot and killed (savvy??) So more handgun controls would only lead to more illegal handguns killing more innocent people(savvy??) We already have laws against murder by any means ,we just need to enforce these laws (savvy??) If we ban handguns in the U.S.A only criminals and the police would have them. This is not acceptable do I make myself clear??????? the Prophet

[thintheherd]

Actually, I believe he's from Belgium, Italy :lol: