Political Crossfire Forums

[pikers]

Allegations of voter fraud from the party of people that can't figure out how to vote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15603344/

I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

[ubikk]

pikers wrote:
I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

Funny how the republicans are the one's bragging that they've saved $100 million dollars to hire trial lawywer trained in election law to contest the results.

[pikers]

ubikk wrote: pikers wrote:
I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

Funny how the republicans are the one's bragging that they've saved $100 million dollars to hire trial lawywer trained in election law to contest the results.

No, it's to battle the inevitable demands for re-count when their people lose. Conservative voters do not typically face the same brain/hand transfer problems libs do at the ballot box.

[ubikk]

pikers wrote: ubikk wrote: pikers wrote:
I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

Funny how the republicans are the one's bragging that they've saved $100 million dollars to hire trial lawywer trained in election law to contest the results.

No, it's to battle the inevitable demands for re-count when their people lose. Conservative voters do not typically face the same brain/hand transfer problems libs do at the ballot box.

The party demanding the recount is the one that has to pay for it. Not the party it's demanded of.

[pikers]

ubikk wrote: pikers wrote: ubikk wrote: pikers wrote:
I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

Funny how the republicans are the one's bragging that they've saved $100 million dollars to hire trial lawywer trained in election law to contest the results.

No, it's to battle the inevitable demands for re-count when their people lose. Conservative voters do not typically face the same brain/hand transfer problems libs do at the ballot box.

The party demanding the recount is the one that has to pay for it. Not the party it's demanded of.

Depends on how close it is. Some states do it upon request at taxpayer expense (Virginia).

The way it's going though, a recount isn't going to matter :?

[Ssushi]

pikers wrote: Allegations of voter fraud from the party of people that can't figure out how to vote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15603344/

I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

Wasn't there another thread where it was claimed that the USA was the 20th or so most corrupt country on earth? *coughs*

[melchizedek22]

pikers wrote: Allegations of voter fraud from the party of people that can't figure out how to vote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15603344/

I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

soar grapes honey!

[Freedom_Isnt_Free]

I found this on blackboxvoting.org its interesting have a read.

Quote: Now is not the time to retreat. Vote, and then find evidence to tell the story of what's really happening in U.S. elections.

Things may look relatively smooth on election day, but the real fun begins after the polls close. That's when we see a lot of strange things. Look for:

- Missing memory cards -- and remember, a memory card is a BALLOT BOX. This happens every election, to weird shrugs by election officials. About 70 ballot boxes went missing in Cuyahoga County during the May primary; a bunch went missing in Detroit last spring, and they've gone missing in places like Dekalb County Georgia, and various other locations. This is nothing to shrug about.

Remember when a single ballot box was missing in Florida in the 2000 election? Everyone was going crazy, but now, you have dozens and dozens of these memory cards, cartridges, and "PEBs" -- all are small digital ballots boxes -- they are going missing. Very troubling. Watch for it. See if you can spot it. Report it!

- Phantom votes -- this is when you have more votes than voters. There were about 100,000 more votes than voters in Tarrant County Texas during the primary, and more votes than voters in Ohio locations in 2004.

What to look for: Do a quick check of the number of registered voters and compare with the number of votes that show up. Bizarre anomalies appear almost every election.

Stage 2 is comparing the number of sign-ins in the pollbook with the number of votes that show up.

- Sometimes you see disappearing votes. The number of votes goes DOWN while the number of precincts counted goes UP. This happened in Mohave County Arizona in the 2004 primary, and in Memphis in the Aug. 2006 primary. Alert watchers of county Web results often spot this and capture it in screen saves.

What to do: Assign someone to capture screen shots each time the totals are updated and check for disappearing votes.

- Obstructed vote counting -- we often see obstructions to being able to see the vote counting, even beyond the obstruction of counting inside a black box. In San Diego in 2005, a member of the Black Box Voting board of directors, Jim March, was arrested for trying to view the vote counting. I myself was surrounded by six members of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's department when I had the audacity to ask if I could view the vote counting there, which was taking place in a room no one could see. We expect to get many reports from citizens who are not allowed to view vote counting.

If you are obstructed from viewing the central tally process, report it.

- In the 10 days following the election, you can expect to see many unusual things pop up in the public records that are obtained by candidates.

Of particular interest are the "event logs" that you get from Microsoft Windows, which runs most of the tallying software. This can show extra programs being run.

Also of great interest are the voting machine event logs, which can show crazy voting dates -- like in Palm Beach County in 2004, where more than 4 dozen voting machines had votes time and date-stamped weeks before the election, sometimes in the middle of the night, and Volusia County Florida in the same election, where a machine had votes date-stamped more than 10,000 years in the future. In San Diego in the June 2006 primary, the voting system event log shows that it dialed out to Diebold at 9:31 pm during the middle of its counting.

- We also anticipate many peculiarities with provisional votes, extra optional paper ballot votes, absentee votes and various obstructions to voting around the country.

- Another thing we look for is strange statistical patterns, like voting machines from one manufacturer giving results different from all the others, or one type of machine giving discrepant results, as happened in New Mexico in 2004. We saw three candidates in a row get 18,181 votes in Comal County Texas and one district in Minnesota had all the minor party candidates get the same vote percentage -- despite very big differences in how well known the candidates were.

On election day itself, we'll see vote-flipping, where people vote for one candidate and another one's name pops up. And we'll see many other unusual things.

I expect surprising new problems, like the new electronic poll books having problems finding themselves, and voting machines that don't match themselves (for example, having different results on their paper tape than they do on their screens).

Document. Think photos, videos, and most of all, cleverly constructed requests for documents. You have the right to obtain a copy of just about any document you can think of, as long as it exists. Go hunting. See what you find.

When you find important information, propagate it. Don't just call it into one place, but email it, send it to bloggers, give it to reporters, provide it to public officials.

We want to improve elections, but first we need to make a solid, indisputable case. And to do that, we all need to get into action.

Use your own common sense. Document. Propagate. Then push solutions through for true ciizen oversight. Now is your chance to take back your electoral process!


My opinion: touchscreens are for coinstar machines and ATMs, leave them out of polotics.

[ubikk]

pikers wrote: Allegations of voter fraud from the party of people that can't figure out how to vote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15603344/

I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

There are still far too many problems with voting than there should be. Part of the reason is that we're in too much of a hurry to find out who wins. I'd prefer an old fashioned paper ballot counted by real people while under the eye of observers. Even if it takes a week or two to find out who wins.

[Fido]

Why doesn't anyone contest the fact that we are divided evenly for and against without hope of any election electing anyone with the ability to represent both sides at once? If party politics has only divided the people, and you cannot eliminate the people, why not eliminate the parties? Is there some reason we should have to endure a hold over from british politics when it has never worked for them? Dump them all, and dump them both. Have people run as individuals pledged to represent faithfully their whole district or tell them to go to hell. Parties are the destruction of the nation as they have always been. Enjoy.

[ubikk]

Fido wrote: Why doesn't anyone contest the fact that we are divided evenly for and against without hope of any election electing anyone with the ability to represent both sides at once? If party politics has only divided the people, and you cannot eliminate the people, why not eliminate the parties? Is there some reason we should have to endure a hold over from british politics when it has never worked for them? Dump them all, and dump them both. Have people run as individuals pledged to represent faithfully their whole district or tell them to go to hell. Parties are the destruction of the nation as they have always been. Enjoy.

Part of the reason that we got so divided in the first place is because they re-drew all the districts to be "safe" for incumbents. These monolithic, homogenous districts by their nature reject moderate or bi-partisan viewpoints. If I'm representing a district that is 98% of a particular view, there is no reason for me to compromise with the opposing view, and in fact, it could hurt me in the election.

Fixing these whacky districts needs to be a major priority.

[Freedom_Isnt_Free]

ubikk wrote: Fido wrote: Why doesn't anyone contest the fact that we are divided evenly for and against without hope of any election electing anyone with the ability to represent both sides at once? If party politics has only divided the people, and you cannot eliminate the people, why not eliminate the parties? Is there some reason we should have to endure a hold over from british politics when it has never worked for them? Dump them all, and dump them both. Have people run as individuals pledged to represent faithfully their whole district or tell them to go to hell. Parties are the destruction of the nation as they have always been. Enjoy.

Part of the reason that we got so divided in the first place is because they re-drew all the districts to be "safe" for incumbents. These monolithic, homogenous districts by their nature reject moderate or bi-partisan viewpoints. If I'm representing a district that is 98% of a particular view, there is no reason for me to compromise with the opposing view, and in fact, it could hurt me in the election.

Fixing these whacky districts needs to be a major priority.

And also to say if there were no parties we'd still be divided on issues and we'd never agree.

[mattman42]

pikers wrote: ubikk wrote: pikers wrote:
I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

Funny how the republicans are the one's bragging that they've saved $100 million dollars to hire trial lawywer trained in election law to contest the results.

No, it's to battle the inevitable demands for re-count when their people lose. Conservative voters do not typically face the same brain/hand transfer problems libs do at the ballot box.

It was those conservative voters who put the guy in office who caused everyone to turn against him, giving us what we have now. It sounds like a bunch of BS from both sides to me. Perhaps if the candidates (that conservatives supported) weren't so incompetent, they would've been able to retain full control. However, since they certainly aren't anything close to competent, I'm glad that power is more equally divided now. Gridlock is the best we could hope for.

[Fido]

Freedom_Isnt_Free wrote: ubikk wrote: Fido wrote: Why doesn't anyone contest the fact that we are divided evenly for and against without hope of any election electing anyone with the ability to represent both sides at once? If party politics has only divided the people, and you cannot eliminate the people, why not eliminate the parties? Is there some reason we should have to endure a hold over from british politics when it has never worked for them? Dump them all, and dump them both. Have people run as individuals pledged to represent faithfully their whole district or tell them to go to hell. Parties are the destruction of the nation as they have always been. Enjoy.

Part of the reason that we got so divided in the first place is because they re-drew all the districts to be "safe" for incumbents. These monolithic, homogenous districts by their nature reject moderate or bi-partisan viewpoints. If I'm representing a district that is 98% of a particular view, there is no reason for me to compromise with the opposing view, and in fact, it could hurt me in the election.

Fixing these whacky districts needs to be a major priority.

And also to say if there were no parties we'd still be divided on issues and we'd never agree.

You know that on several occasions the House of representatives has limited the number of members for the sake of management. I trust that the figure mentioned in the constitution has some relation to what the founding fathers thought would be best, with few people represented by many. Certainly gerrymandering is a problem, but it is only a problem made possible by parties and by the large numbers represented. If the house needs to be bigger build a gd stadium. I have been in stadiums were thousands found it possible to agree; but one fact is beyond dispute: winner take all government is not the same as good government. The part winning benefits no more than the minority. Every part should have a voice. Republicans and democrats from the same district deserve a voice and a vote all the time, and not just when the swing voters give them their voice. Let's get back to the constitution.

[perdidochas]

ubikk wrote: pikers wrote: Allegations of voter fraud from the party of people that can't figure out how to vote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15603344/

I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

There are still far too many problems with voting than there should be. Part of the reason is that we're in too much of a hurry to find out who wins. I'd prefer an old fashioned paper ballot counted by real people while under the eye of observers. Even if it takes a week or two to find out who wins.

Old fashioned paper ballots counted by people have a margin of error as well. They are also easy to corrupt as well. No system is going to be foolproof.

[JoeBen81]

This one's for you pikers..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qywnPxeZPk

[pikers]

melchizedek22 wrote: pikers wrote: Allegations of voter fraud from the party of people that can't figure out how to vote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15603344/

I anticipate with dems frothing at the mouth to take control to show the world their misguided "progressive" values, we will see a lot of this type of thing.

Funny how you never see allegation like this from areas that are remotely educated, but ya know... :roll:

soar grapes honey!

Well, I posted this the morning of the election, not after.

But as always your attention to detail amazes me.