Political Crossfire Forums

[ramashkagromik]

No Offense Intended

I have read a lot about so called "Europe's Muslim Problem"

Basically it states that soon Europe's Muslim population will overrun the white and Europe will lose its culture and collapse. I do not know how soon this "soon" really is but i did read so articles on how European White population is slowly declining while minority population, mostly Muslims, is steadily growing. EU ignores this "obvious problem", and i agree that it is under the risk of losing itself.

That is one reason why I believe Turkey will never join the EU, Europe just doesn't need an influx of work hungry Muslims coming in and "stealing" jobs, even thought it may be good for economy.

It seems as thought Europe is having the same problem with Muslims as US does with Latino Americans (Think Mexicans).

The following article suggests that the recent G8 meeting that pledged 50 billion $ to Africa was aimed at stalling the influx of Muslims to Europe, to make the homeland of the Muslims more appealing so that perhaps some of Europe's Muslims would return home.

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/23250

Would you guys please comment on what you think about this "Muslim Problem of Europe" and wheather it is superficial or real deal

[Mr. Sunshine]

Ask the white French cops in Marseilles if there are any left that haven't resigned yet. :lol:

[Snake]

Their 'muslim problem' sounds a lot like our 'mexican problem', and I hope to God it doesn't end up like the 'answer to the jewish problem'

[Vargo]

Its not called the "muslim Problem" its the "Arab Problem" because not all muslims are arabs and yea its exactly like the "Mexican problem".

[ramashkagromik]

Kamel wrote: Their 'muslim problem' sounds a lot like our 'mexican problem', and I hope to God it doesn't end up like the 'answer to the jewish problem'

me too, but i still feel that Europe ignores this "proplem".
By statistics, European Jails' number of Muslim Inmates is disproportionally high to the Muslim population. Meaning that for example in France, whose population is 5-10% Muslim, (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/fr.html)
70% of the jail inmates are Muslim

So 5-10% of the population are bassically responsible for 70% of the crime.
That is the problem i am implying.

[Plato & Socrates]

ramashkagromik wrote: Kamel wrote: Their 'muslim problem' sounds a lot like our 'mexican problem', and I hope to God it doesn't end up like the 'answer to the jewish problem'

me too, but i still feel that Europe ignores this "proplem".
By statistics, European Jails' number of Muslim Inmates is disproportionally high to the Muslim population. Meaning that for example in France, whose population is 5-10% Muslim, (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/fr.html)
70% of the jail inmates are Muslim

So 5-10% of the population are bassically responsible for 70% of the crime.
That is the problem i am implying.

Are you sure about the 70% figure? Source please. But sadly I must agree with you. There is going to be major objection for now, to Turkey's membership to the E.U. After promising Turkey membership if she kept to her reforms. It seems like we will renege on our promise. Its more of a political reason, than out of practicality. It is to appease our anti-Muslim electorate.

[Kane]

But what is at the root of the problem? I've heard racism...I've heard there's a varying lack of assimilation into European Society...

What say you Europeans? :think:

I would argue that there's a larger degree of assimilation going on here in the States than in the European nations. But this is of course just going off of what I've actually seen here and what I've read, heard, seen in the media about over there.

I'm not so sure that the two are so parallel in definition... :?

[Rankor and Pissing]

It's not as simple as just being 1 problem... it's a host of problems. Sure, discrimination is one issue, un-employment is another, immigrants who enter Europe do not assimilate into European society, finances not staying within the country(s), societies within societies, the EU system based on socialistic and welfare systems which are bleeding to death...

All of these things can be counted - as well, the lack of respect these immigrants get. I've had a few threads on just this subject, however, the Europeans always come back with, "Meh... it's not such a problem and America makes it out to be." Yet, my relatives who are still in Germany say it's a HUGE problem... so... what's the truth?

I personally believe most Europeans simply shrug off the problem as "no big deal", until, sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, it'll get so huge that they cannot keep their heads in the sand any longer.

[indieinmich]

There are only so many decent places to live in this world.I mean really where you can go and make a decent living,decent schools,and religious freedom?I think these influxes are a good thing for those who wish to see the spread of democracy.I think that generally speaking most people want the same things.We all want to be able to provide for our families.We all want our children to grow and learn in a safe and happy environment.We all want to be free to who we are.We all want to be free to believe and worship as we choose.I think we need to make room for these people.We all will need to readjust to the new environment,but with patience,tolerance,and understanding it can be done.These people coming to our countries are seeds of hope for their own countries.They come and with them bring a better understanding of us to them and of them to us.And that can and will extend beyond boarders if we can recognize this chance we common folks have in the peace process.

[slitedeviance]

Rankor and Pissing wrote: I personally believe most Europeans simply shrug off the problem as "no big deal", until, sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, it'll get so huge that they cannot keep their heads in the sand any longer.

I'd have to disagree right here. Immigration, intergration, unemployment and the welfare state are focused on every day in almost every medium in Europe. In fact, immigration has been focused on for years here in the UK, as both a political and a social issue.

The "Muslim problem" is being looked into everywhere. However, what I will concede is that the reports from media sources are mostly conjecture and the debate around this is based on the past and current issues rather than actually resolving the situation and moving forward.

Also, the numbers of Muslims in jail (70%) that you quoted is not a useful number when looking at why these people are in jail. For a fair representation the division needs to be first assesed against Poverty and Standard of Living, before it can be broken down into religion, background etc.

[mendosan]

Rankor and Pissing wrote: It's not as simple as just being 1 problem... it's a host of problems. Sure, discrimination is one issue, un-employment is another, immigrants who enter Europe do not assimilate into European society, finances not staying within the country(s), societies within societies, the EU system based on socialistic and welfare systems which are bleeding to death...

All of these things can be counted - as well, the lack of respect these immigrants get. I've had a few threads on just this subject, however, the Europeans always come back with, "Meh... it's not such a problem and America makes it out to be." Yet, my relatives who are still in Germany say it's a HUGE problem... so... what's the truth?

I personally believe most Europeans simply shrug off the problem as "no big deal", until, sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, it'll get so huge that they cannot keep their heads in the sand any longer.

You have kind of highlighted the really issue which is that its a lot of different issues depending on which country you are talking about, the problems are diffrent in the UK than they are in Germany or France, talking about this as a European problem is unhelpful, put simply in the UK the problem is a mixture of multiculturalism as a govermnt policy (divide and rule) political correctness gone mad (Pair cleared over Jelly Baby race attacks) and lack of social mobility, people being trapped by benefits, poor education. In fact none of these problems are limited to the Muslim community, more poor white voters have chosen the far right BNP (not the French bank) as the party which represents them, the major diffrence is radical Islam instead of beng wooed by nazis muslims fall into the arms of Islamists.

[U seless N ations]

ramashkagromik wrote: No Offense Intended

I have read a lot about so called "Europe's Muslim Problem"

Basically it states that soon Europe's Muslim population will overrun the white and Europe will lose its culture and collapse. I do not know how soon this "soon" really is but i did read so articles on how European White population is slowly declining while minority population, mostly Muslims, is steadily growing. EU ignores this "obvious problem", and i agree that it is under the risk of losing itself.

That is one reason why I believe Turkey will never join the EU, Europe just doesn't need an influx of work hungry Muslims coming in and "stealing" jobs, even thought it may be good for economy.

It seems as thought Europe is having the same problem with Muslims as US does with Latino Americans (Think Mexicans).

The following article suggests that the recent G8 meeting that pledged 50 billion $ to Africa was aimed at stalling the influx of Muslims to Europe, to make the homeland of the Muslims more appealing so that perhaps some of Europe's Muslims would return home.

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/23250

Would you guys please comment on what you think about this "Muslim Problem of Europe" and wheather it is superficial or real deal

I really like your signature pic that really says it all right there. Polluted minds = polluted communication = people gonna die for it.

As far as the Mexicans go I like to watch Carlos Mensia Comedy he says the one things Mexicans hate the most is Mexians lmfao. SO hes like if we just let them all come here they will be like hey esse we got to get the F out of here and then they will go to France Lite aka Canada :lol:
The Newb called Canada France Lite in another string omg funny thats Canadas new aka

[Rankor and Pissing]

mendosan wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote: It's not as simple as just being 1 problem... it's a host of problems. Sure, discrimination is one issue, un-employment is another, immigrants who enter Europe do not assimilate into European society, finances not staying within the country(s), societies within societies, the EU system based on socialistic and welfare systems which are bleeding to death...

All of these things can be counted - as well, the lack of respect these immigrants get. I've had a few threads on just this subject, however, the Europeans always come back with, "Meh... it's not such a problem and America makes it out to be." Yet, my relatives who are still in Germany say it's a HUGE problem... so... what's the truth?

I personally believe most Europeans simply shrug off the problem as "no big deal", until, sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, it'll get so huge that they cannot keep their heads in the sand any longer.

You have kind of highlighted the really issue which is that its a lot of different issues depending on which country you are talking about, the problems are diffrent in the UK than they are in Germany or France, talking about this as a European problem is unhelpful, put simply in the UK the problem is a mixture of multiculturalism as a govermnt policy (divide and rule) political correctness gone mad (Pair cleared over Jelly Baby race attacks) and lack of social mobility, people being trapped by benefits, poor education. In fact none of these problems are limited to the Muslim community, more poor white voters have chosen the far right BNP (not the French bank) as the party which represents them, the major diffrence is radical Islam instead of beng wooed by nazis muslims fall into the arms of Islamists.

Good clarification - yes I've seen also that between the different countries, there are different problems and it's not good to generalized European countries having the same issues. I'd suggest, however, the the EU as it moves forward, may have a more cohesive policy towards immigration so those difference "may" become less and less as time goes forward.

The jelly baby case is just frigging insanity. An analogy would be PETA bring suite against a person who enjoyed biting the heads off of "gummy bears". Total insanity.

[Rankor and Pissing]

slitedeviance wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote: I personally believe most Europeans simply shrug off the problem as "no big deal", until, sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, it'll get so huge that they cannot keep their heads in the sand any longer.

I'd have to disagree right here. Immigration, intergration, unemployment and the welfare state are focused on every day in almost every medium in Europe. In fact, immigration has been focused on for years here in the UK, as both a political and a social issue.

The "Muslim problem" is being looked into everywhere. However, what I will concede is that the reports from media sources are mostly conjecture and the debate around this is based on the past and current issues rather than actually resolving the situation and moving forward.

Also, the numbers of Muslims in jail (70%) that you quoted is not a useful number when looking at why these people are in jail. For a fair representation the division needs to be first assesed against Poverty and Standard of Living, before it can be broken down into religion, background etc.

I won't disagree.... I was focused on commenting only on PCF reply's I've had in the past to threads I've started on this very subject. I know it is in the media a lot in Germany specifically - I hear it from my extended family in Hamburg all the time. :wink:

[Eduffy80911]

ramashkagromik wrote: No Offense Intended

I have read a lot about so called "Europe's Muslim Problem"

Basically it states that soon Europe's Muslim population will overrun the white and Europe will lose its culture and collapse. I do not know how soon this "soon" really is but i did read so articles on how European White population is slowly declining while minority population, mostly Muslims, is steadily growing. EU ignores this "obvious problem", and i agree that it is under the risk of losing itself.

That is one reason why I believe Turkey will never join the EU, Europe just doesn't need an influx of work hungry Muslims coming in and "stealing" jobs, even thought it may be good for economy.

It seems as thought Europe is having the same problem with Muslims as US does with Latino Americans (Think Mexicans).

The following article suggests that the recent G8 meeting that pledged 50 billion $ to Africa was aimed at stalling the influx of Muslims to Europe, to make the homeland of the Muslims more appealing so that perhaps some of Europe's Muslims would return home.

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/23250

Would you guys please comment on what you think about this "Muslim Problem of Europe" and wheather it is superficial or real deal

The American "problem" with latinos is not really a problem. The skin tone of Americans will darken over time, but the fundamental principals that make this America will likely stay the same.

I don't know if that's the case with the Muslim situation in Europe, but if it is, it's just a bunch of whining about nothing.

If they're worried about theocracy, that's another matter.

[Plato & Socrates]

Rankor and Pissing wrote: mendosan wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote: It's not as simple as just being 1 problem... it's a host of problems. Sure, discrimination is one issue, un-employment is another, immigrants who enter Europe do not assimilate into European society, finances not staying within the country(s), societies within societies, the EU system based on socialistic and welfare systems which are bleeding to death...

All of these things can be counted - as well, the lack of respect these immigrants get. I've had a few threads on just this subject, however, the Europeans always come back with, "Meh... it's not such a problem and America makes it out to be." Yet, my relatives who are still in Germany say it's a HUGE problem... so... what's the truth?

I personally believe most Europeans simply shrug off the problem as "no big deal", until, sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, it'll get so huge that they cannot keep their heads in the sand any longer.

You have kind of highlighted the really issue which is that its a lot of different issues depending on which country you are talking about, the problems are diffrent in the UK than they are in Germany or France, talking about this as a European problem is unhelpful, put simply in the UK the problem is a mixture of multiculturalism as a govermnt policy (divide and rule) political correctness gone mad (Pair cleared over Jelly Baby race attacks) and lack of social mobility, people being trapped by benefits, poor education. In fact none of these problems are limited to the Muslim community, more poor white voters have chosen the far right BNP (not the French bank) as the party which represents them, the major diffrence is radical Islam instead of beng wooed by nazis muslims fall into the arms of Islamists.

Good clarification - yes I've seen also that between the different countries, there are different problems and it's not good to generalized European countries having the same issues. I'd suggest, however, the the EU as it moves forward, may have a more cohesive policy towards immigration so those difference "may" become less and less as time goes forward.

The jelly baby case is just frigging insanity. An analogy would be PETA bring suite against a person who enjoyed biting the heads off of "gummy bears". Total insanity.

It is a multitude of problems and issues. But one of the glaring omissions when looking at the Muslim and immigration issue and the problems of assimilation, it is that of English people hostility to accepting them in the first place. People conveniently forget, that for assimilation to work, there must be an acceptance from the host society.
What are the excuses for hostility towards the Muslims and some Asian groups in British society? Its the usual, they don't want to integrate. They don't speak the language. They segregate themselves off with themselves. etc etc.

This is just an excuse. Lets take our Black Afro-Caribbean and African British citizens. They speak the language well. There willing to participate in all British life, from Bingo to all Sports, members of social and labour clubs, the list go on. They have no radical religion, dont oppress there women. Dont conduct terrorism. Dont preach hate of the white man or others. But to many this is'nt enough. ie; it does'nt matter what they do, we Brits will still discriminate against them. Wheteher its jobs or law enforcement.

If I was a Muslim or Asian in Britain. Seeing the Black experience would'nt fill me with hope. There social mobility has nothing to do with assimilation or language or the hijab, but purely on race. Its a two way thing. I might be all accommodating to new arrivals, I have Asian and Black friends. But people like my uncle? No f**king way.
No matter what they do, will it be enough. Yet he wants to spend most of his spare time getting a tan to be as dark as possible. :roll:

[DSwain]

Plato & Socrates wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote: mendosan wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote: It's not as simple as just being 1 problem... it's a host of problems. Sure, discrimination is one issue, un-employment is another, immigrants who enter Europe do not assimilate into European society, finances not staying within the country(s), societies within societies, the EU system based on socialistic and welfare systems which are bleeding to death...

All of these things can be counted - as well, the lack of respect these immigrants get. I've had a few threads on just this subject, however, the Europeans always come back with, "Meh... it's not such a problem and America makes it out to be." Yet, my relatives who are still in Germany say it's a HUGE problem... so... what's the truth?

I personally believe most Europeans simply shrug off the problem as "no big deal", until, sometime in the next 10 to 20 years, it'll get so huge that they cannot keep their heads in the sand any longer.

You have kind of highlighted the really issue which is that its a lot of different issues depending on which country you are talking about, the problems are diffrent in the UK than they are in Germany or France, talking about this as a European problem is unhelpful, put simply in the UK the problem is a mixture of multiculturalism as a govermnt policy (divide and rule) political correctness gone mad (Pair cleared over Jelly Baby race attacks) and lack of social mobility, people being trapped by benefits, poor education. In fact none of these problems are limited to the Muslim community, more poor white voters have chosen the far right BNP (not the French bank) as the party which represents them, the major diffrence is radical Islam instead of beng wooed by nazis muslims fall into the arms of Islamists.

Good clarification - yes I've seen also that between the different countries, there are different problems and it's not good to generalized European countries having the same issues. I'd suggest, however, the the EU as it moves forward, may have a more cohesive policy towards immigration so those difference "may" become less and less as time goes forward.

The jelly baby case is just frigging insanity. An analogy would be PETA bring suite against a person who enjoyed biting the heads off of "gummy bears". Total insanity.

It is a multitude of problems and issues. But one of the glaring omissions when looking at the Muslim and immigration issue and the problems of assimilation, it is that of English people hostility to accepting them in the first place. People conveniently forget, that for assimilation to work, there must be an acceptance from the host society.
What are the excuses for hostility towards the Muslims and some Asian groups in British society? Its the usual, they don't want to integrate. They don't speak the language. They segregate themselves off with themselves. etc etc.

This is just an excuse. Lets take our Black Afro-Caribbean and African British citizens. They speak the language well. There willing to participate in all British life, from Bingo to all Sports, members of social and labour clubs, the list go on. They have no radical religion, dont oppress there women. Dont conduct terrorism. Dont preach hate of the white man or others. But to many this is'nt enough. ie; it does'nt matter what they do, we Brits will still discriminate against them. Wheteher its jobs or law enforcement.

If I was a Muslim or Asian in Britain. Seeing the Black experience would'nt fill me with hope. There social mobility has nothing to do with assimilation or language or the hijab, but purely on race. Its a two way thing. I might be all accommodating to new arrivals, I have Asian and Black friends. But people like my uncle? No f**king way.
No matter what they do, will it be enough. Yet he wants to spend most of his spare time getting a tan to be as dark as possible. :roll:

Come off it, Plato; how do blacks suffer discrimination today in Britain? Other than the way all Brits do - from our accents, from our educational backgrounds, from the part of the country from which we hail. I'm not saying it's always been this way - but the incidence of racial discrimination is low and diminishing all the time. Unless you can actually show me research saying otherwise? Maybe you can demonstrate how black people aren't given jobs? Or they're convicted and jailed purely on the grounds of the colour of their skin?

[Spider]

Vargo wrote: Its not called the "muslim Problem" its the "Arab Problem" because not all muslims are arabs and yea its exactly like the "Mexican problem".

I wouldn't call it the same at all. Mexicans are nearly all christian.

And people make jokes about Mexicans on a daily basis without mexicans burning down embassies and killing people, etc.

Two entirely different groups of people.

[thefranzkafkafront]

Hah i love this 'barbarians' at the gate bulls**t.

People fail to realise the current 'european' population decline is due to the baby boom demographic who are now all in there 50'ies and 60'ies.

[DSwain]

thefranzkafkafront wrote: Hah i love this 'barbarians' at the gate bulls**t.

People fail to realise the current 'european' population decline is due to the baby boom demographic who are now all in there 50'ies and 60'ies.

And that even in a declining population, the number of Muslims is still small - 2.5% of Britain's total population, for example.