Political Crossfire Forums

[Venom]

Quote: If I were a terrorist who gained supporters by opposing people who invade Muslim countries, of course I would go on the record as opposing Republicans' ideas about invading Iraq and Afghanistan
Let's see... recruiting is up... and deaths are way up...
Now in the same report that states recruitment is up... it states that if we continue in Iraq and help them become stable the recruitment will slow.

Another good way to recruit people is to attack US targets and have no real retaliation. If I were a terrorist I'd go on the record for wanting Democrats to enter office since they certainly haven't responded very well to the attacks.

Quote: If I were bin Laden or another terrorist leader though I also might think it convenient that so many Americans and other Westerners had come to invade those countries, putting them on my "home turf" and making recruiting that much easier.
Home turf? I thought there were no terrorists in Iraq?

I guess the other choice is fight them in America on "our" home turf... of course that involves allowing them to come here and fight us. Last time that happened we lost over 2,000 people.


Quote: If I were bin Laden or another terrorist leader though I also might think it convenient that so many Americans and other Westerners had come to invade those countries, putting them on my "home turf" and making recruiting that much easier.
Of course taking their advice is stupid, however it's also not a good move to ignore what your enemy has to say.
The more I listen, the more I read, I see that they want us all dead in the United States. What party in my opinion will do a better job? The Republicans. I feel they have a better track record in this area.
I support the war in Iraq. I'd much rather go there several times than just have the US pull out and give into these terrorists. That's exactly what we'd be doing.. just giving in.

[agentkgb]

Venom wrote: Quote: If I were a terrorist who gained supporters by opposing people who invade Muslim countries, of course I would go on the record as opposing Republicans' ideas about invading Iraq and Afghanistan
Let's see... recruiting is up... and deaths are way up...
Now in the same report that states recruitment is up... it states that if we continue in Iraq and help them become stable the recruitment will slow.

Another good way to recruit people is to attack US targets and have no real retaliation. If I were a terrorist I'd go on the record for wanting Democrats to enter office since they certainly haven't responded very well to the attacks.
Regardless of which political party is better at combating terrorism, I said "on the record," which might differ from their actual views.

Venom wrote: Quote: If I were bin Laden or another terrorist leader though I also might think it convenient that so many Americans and other Westerners had come to invade those countries, putting them on my "home turf" and making recruiting that much easier.
Home turf? I thought there were no terrorists in Iraq?
:? It's probably easier for extremists from the middle east to fight in the middle east.

Venom wrote: Quote: If I were bin Laden or another terrorist leader though I also might think it convenient that so many Americans and other Westerners had come to invade those countries, putting them on my "home turf" and making recruiting that much easier.
Of course taking their advice is stupid, however it's also not a good move to ignore what your enemy has to say.
The more I listen, the more I read, I see that they want us all dead in the United States. What party in my opinion will do a better job? The Republicans. I feel they have a better track record in this area.
With the obvious exception of 9/11. :roll:

[Venom]

Quote: With the obvious exception of 9/11.
Your right 9/11 was Bush' fault because he was President. He had been President for roughly 8 months... of course which is plenty of time to reform the intel community, to make a pre emptive strike against Al Queda, to prevent 9/11. :roll:
Even after 9/11 intel reforms are being fought tooth and nail, even after 9/11 any military action is given a negative spin, even after 9/11 people don't grasp this war on terror doesn't end in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Quote: It's probably easier for extremists from the middle east to fight in the middle east.
Ok great, so I'll play the role of "visitor" and play in their stadium if it means we don't play in ours.

Quote: Regardless of which political party is better at combating terrorism, I said "on the record," which might differ from their actual views.
Of course, however their actions and reactions say a lot. It says they don't want us actively hunting them.
Again also take note you can go to the house of a Mujiden member in Iraq, ask him if he is a Mujiden member and he will say yes to your face even while you and you and a squad of armed military personnel stand near him.
These people are religious zealots.

[slitedeviance]

Venom wrote: These people are religious zealots.

So that makes people in favour of western intervention what... democracy zealots?

[Venom]

Quote: democracy zealots?
Yes the US want's to spread democracy imagine that. I'd much rather deal with a Democracy Zealot that doesn't attack countries just because they aren't a democracy (look at our "allies") than a religious zealot that would take any chance to slit someone's throat because they weren't a Muslim or even the right denomination.
Look at Lebanon when the liberal minded Christians that sided with the Muslims were killed by them during the "civil war".

[agentkgb]

Venom wrote: Quote: democracy zealots?
I'd much rather deal with a Democracy Zealot that doesn't attack countries just because they aren't a democracy
I'd agree that Bush didn't invade Iraq to bring it democracy, but I don't think that's what you're saying.

[Venom]

Quote: I'd agree that Bush didn't invade Iraq to bring it democracy, but I don't think that's what you're saying.
I don't think Bush has ever said he invaded Iraq to make it a democracy, rather that is an affect of getting rid of Saddam. So rather than get rid of Saddam and get out leaving them on their own, the US is staying to help them move towards democracy.

[agentkgb]

Venom wrote: Quote: I'd agree that Bush didn't invade Iraq to bring it democracy, but I don't think that's what you're saying.
I don't think Bush has ever said he invaded Iraq to make it a democracy, rather that is an affect of getting rid of Saddam. So rather than get rid of Saddam and get out leaving them on their own, the US is staying to help them move towards democracy.
I don't know for sure all of the exact words that Bush said regarding his reasons for invading Iraq, but here he makes numerous mentions of bringing liberty to Iraq and Afghanistan and helping people who "struggle for democracy." I don't have anything against democracy, but there are such things as zealots who aren't religious zealots.

[Venom]

Quote: I don't know for sure all of the exact words that Bush said regarding his reasons for invading Iraq, but here he makes numerous mentions of bringing liberty to Iraq and Afghanistan and helping people who "struggle for democracy." I don't have anything against democracy, but there are such things as zealots who aren't religious zealots.
Was the primary reason for attacking Afghan and Iraq not clearly stated as attacking a threat to the United States? If he was a democracy zealot on the level of these religous zealots we would be over throwing a lot more countries while we speak and forcing them into the form of democracy that we desired.

[maxr]

mODULAR mAN wrote: Venom wrote: Quote: I bet you do, traitor. You are trusting the word of a terrorist over an American. You are the lowest form of scum.
Yes I do believe they want Democrats elected... on what rational does that make me a traitor that I belive what they are saying? How is that trusting the word of a terrorist over an American? If someone tells me they want something and has a track record to support what they say I believe it. That has nothing to do with allegience to one's country. You know I think people like John Kerry are traitors, ones that will do or say anything to retain power.
I also trust John Kerry's words that people in the military are apparent idiots and also that he doesn't know what stance of the war to take.

I know you believe the terrorists, you keep saying that. It is clear you have taken the words of terrorists over the words of Americans, soncerning the defense of this country.

The fact that you think the "Liberals" are the enemy an dyou are getting your talking points from Al Queda, tells me everything I need to know about you.

You are a traitor.

And, a dishonest one, since you know Kerry was not making fun of the troops; you just want to believe he did.

You are despicable and America has no place for traitors like you.

lmfao

[mODULAR mAN]

Well, since I don't trust the terrorists, I beleive that they say "vote Dem" so people will vote Rep.

So, I voted Dem because I am against terrorism.

I know a lot of Rep's here listen to terrorists (Rummy, Reagan-ites, etc) and will vote Rep, but I'm a patriot. :wink:

[Venom]

Quote: So, I voted Dem because I am against terrorism.

I know a lot of Rep's here listen to terrorists (Rummy, Reagan-ites, etc) and will vote Rep, but I'm a patriot.
Good for you, so favoring a political party that believes in running away from Iraq because it's a problem is a great choice indeed.
I guess if they kill enough Americans in the US we will leave here too? Hrmm...

[mODULAR mAN]

Venom wrote: Quote: So, I voted Dem because I am against terrorism.

I know a lot of Rep's here listen to terrorists (Rummy, Reagan-ites, etc) and will vote Rep, but I'm a patriot.
Good for you, so favoring a political party that believes in running away from Iraq because it's a problem is a great choice indeed.
I guess if they kill enough Americans in the US we will leave here too? Hrmm...

Well, you say the Terrorists want Dems to win. You are welcome to listen to their advice.

American Military leaders are calling for Rumsfeld's resignation (but Bush supports him) - I will listen to their advice.

You pick your advisors, I'll pick Americans.

[Venom]

Quote: Well, you say the Terrorists want Dems to win. You are welcome to listen to their advice.

American Military leaders are calling for Rumsfeld's resignation (but Bush supports him) - I will listen to their advice.

You pick your advisors, I'll pick Americans.
Link for the American military leaders?
Funny how the majority of the American Military supports Rumsfeld and Bush, however you won't listen to their advice.
Infact the majority of the American Military votes Republican but ignore them when it's not convienent.

Quote: Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.
-Nancy Pelosi
Quote: The president led us into the Iraq war on the basis of unproven assertions without evidence; he embraced a radical doctrine of pre-emptive war unprecedented in our history; and he failed to build a true international coalition.
-Nancy Pelosi

Quote: "Look, we have exhausted virtually all our diplomatic effort to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements and with international law. Given that, what other option is there but to force them to do so? That's what they're saying. This is the key question. And the answer is we don't have another option. We have got to force them to comply militarily."
Tom Daschle under Clinton in 98
Quote: I'm going to the White House this afternoon and I have a pretty good understanding, a pretty good idea what I'm going to hear. And I'm saddened, saddened that this President failed so miserably at diplomacy that we're now forced to war, saddened that we have to give up one life because this President couldn't create the kind of diplomatic effort that was so critical for our country. But we will work, and we will do all that we can to get through this crisis like we've gotten through so many
Tom Daschle when G. W. Bush invaded Iraq.

Quote: Men often oppose a thing merely because they have no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike."-
Alexander Hamilton

Quote: You pick your advisors, I'll pick Americans.
And thats your right as an American. So since you have picked the option to run from the people we fight, what will you do when they come to attack the United States again?
What IS the Democratic plan for Iraq? Since they won't even say it anymore. They call it "redeployment" which means withdrawal. They attempt to mask it with the military term.
Yay for smoke and mirrors :)

I believe these terrorists when they say they want to kill me, kill you, kill every American no matter where we are. They've proven this and I'd much rather go to Iraq than fight them in NYC as thousands of American die as we wait for their next attack.

[leftneckredwing]

mODULAR mAN wrote: Venom wrote:
I believe what this terrorist is saying, ...

Mod edit. Personal insults are against forum rules. Knock it off.

LNRW

[mODULAR mAN]

Venom wrote:
I believe these terrorists when they say they want to kill me, kill you, kill every American no matter where we are. They've proven this and I'd much rather go to Iraq than fight them in NYC as thousands of American die as we wait for their next attack.
And we are fighting against Iraqi's not terrorists in Iraq. At least, not the terrorists that are concerned about buying a ticket on British Air to get over here to fight us.

It is a Red Herring to think you are "fighting them there". "They" are everywhere. The people fighting us in Iraq are strictly insurgents and interested in the Civil War.


Do you really think that Al Queda and other terrorist groups are simply running to fight America in Iraq? They are happy it is a prolonged quagmire, but they are obviously planning other things elsewhere.

Remember the recent mutli-plane attck attempt (stopped by police action)?

How did our troops in Iraq stop that attack? They didn't. Our troops had nothing to do with it. They also didn't stop the Madrid bombing, the London bombing, the Bali bombing, etc....

You really need to explain how the Iraq war has anything to do with anything other then a vote-getter for the Republican party.

[Venom]

Quote: And we are fighting against Iraqi's not terrorists in Iraq
They aren't?
Hrmm they use suicide bombings, attacks on purely civilian groups, attacks on voting lines, VBIEDs, etc on to kill people. I don't know what terrorism is to you, but according to most people that is one heck of a resume for a terrorist...

Quote: At least, not the terrorists that are concerned about buying a ticket on British Air to get over here to fight us
Al Zarqawi.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi
Oddly enough we killed him in Iraq. You think he wouldn't want to buy a plane ticke to kill a bunch of Americans?

Quote: It is a Red Herring to think you are "fighting them there". "They" are everywhere. The people fighting us in Iraq are strictly insurgents and interested in the Civil War.

Your right they are everywhere. There are terrorist cells across the globe, certainly in the US. Now as I've pointed out in the case of Al Zarqawi your statement that the only fighting there are from insurgents in a civil war has been debunked.

Quote: Do you really think that Al Queda and other terrorist groups are simply running to fight America in Iraq? They are happy it is a prolonged quagmire, but they are obviously planning other things elsewhere.
Again Al Zarqawi...
Yes I do think they are running to Iraq to kill Americans. That is their mission statement... kill the infidels. Sure they'd love for us to be in a quagmire, but what they would really love is to have us leave so we would score them yet another victory. Kill Americans and they will quit fighting you. It's a horrible message to send terrorists and that's what the Democrats are advocating.
Sure they are planning strikes elsewhere. That doesn't mean we have to leave Iraq because of it.

Quote: Remember the recent mutli-plane attck attempt (stopped by police action)?

Why yes I do.

Quote: How did our troops in Iraq stop that attack? They didn't. Our troops had nothing to do with it. They also didn't stop the Madrid bombing, the London bombing, the Bali bombing, etc....

Your right so all is lost lets pull out... :lol:
Did you think Iraq would end terrorism or simply attacking Afghanistan would? Apparently you don't understand the true scope of the "war on terror".
Fighting in Iraq did however topple Saddam, give the people of Iraq an actual chance to have a country of their own. I guess the alternative in your eyes is to have left Saddam in power. Sounds great now, until you read what he has done. Why was there no sectarian violence under him? Well because he would gas any group that acted up.
Our troops kill a lot of people that would love to carryout all sorts of barbaric attacks on the United States. Our troops also detain a great many of them for questioning.

Quote: You really need to explain how the Iraq war has anything to do with anything other then a vote-getter for the Republican party.
We are killing terrorists in Iraq... pretty simple concept for fighting a war is to kill the enemy. Leaving Iraq only plays into the hands of these terrorists. The left complains of the sectarian violence, yet what do they think would happen when the use "redeployed" out of Iraq? It would turn into an unchecked free for all. How lovely. If you recall Democrats such as John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, voted yes to the use of force against Iraq. I guess they don't want to clean the mess they supported? That's not very responsible.
History shows that running away from terrorism did not help the United States. Even Reagan made this mistake in Beruit. Jimmy Carter in Iran, Clinton in Somalia pulling out after the deaths of the US Soldiers (nevermind that he denied them the proper air support they had requested prior to the incident). There were terrorist attacks throughout the 1990s against the US, foreign and domestic. Now we respond to a horrific event and the left once again is asking us to run away. We ran away for decades and they still blew down our towers. Running isn't going to solve anything.
In fact even though you want to leave, they still want you and myself dead. Why? We are infidels, plain and simple.
Also how is the Iraq war a vote-getter? Last I checked it wasn't doing so great in the polls.



Now please do explain the Democratic plan for Iraq.

[slitedeviance]

Venom wrote: Now please do explain the Democratic plan for Iraq.

As far as I can see it's withdraw the troops along a sensible timescale.

Now, what was the Republican plan for Iraq? I seem to remember lots of talk of "Staying the course" without any mention of what that actually entailed...

No wait, let me guess, "We'll kill the terrorists and establish a free democracy for the people of Iraq!"...

[Village Idiot]

slitedeviance wrote: Venom wrote: Now please do explain the Democratic plan for Iraq.

As far as I can see it's withdraw the troops along a sensible timescale.

Now, what was the Republican plan for Iraq? I seem to remember lots of talk of "Staying the course" without any mention of what that actually entailed...

No wait, let me guess, "We'll kill the terrorists and establish a free democracy for the people of Iraq!"...

You forgot the roses in the street.

[Venom]

Quote: As far as I can see it's withdraw the troops along a sensible timescale.
Ok because the US has been so succesful at predicting the future?
Thats what this act of a timeline for getting troops out would require.
Also that's great information for an enemy force. Hey Joe Sucide Bomber, the US is pulling out of this area in Nov 2008. Let's wait till then so we can just kill everyone and not have to even worry about anyone holding us back.

Quote: Now, what was the Republican plan for Iraq? I seem to remember lots of talk of "Staying the course" without any mention of what that actually entailed...
The Republican plan of "stay the course" means staying in Iraq. Changing some things here and there such as the training of the Iraqi military, changing offensive actions against the insurgency, rebuilding Iraq infrastructure, educating Iraqi's.

Quote: No wait, let me guess, "We'll kill the terrorists and establish a free democracy for the people of Iraq!"...
At a glance that would appear to be it :).
Of course if you could be bothered you'd see the changes that have been made and that are being made.

Quote: You forgot the roses in the street.
No thats where they dump their trash and human waste. Screw em right? Lets get the heck out of here!!!!! Woooooohooo