Political Crossfire Forums

Boondoggle · Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

The Canadian government is considering buying Leopard 2 A4 and A5s tanks from the Germans and Swiss, which would more than double the number of tanks that the Canadian military has.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061031/canada_tanks_061031/20061031?hub=TopStories

It's Cold War surplus that was rarely even used so it's in almost new condition. The cost of the Leopard 2 new is up to $6 million dollars, and the Canadian government may be able to get them for as little as $350,000 each, yet the opposition argues that the government should wait for a report on what the military needs. :roll:

Quote: "We know there's need," said Ujjal Dosanjh, the Liberal defence critic. "But how can we judge whether what we're buying is appropriate unless we have the total overall defence capabilities plan."

They've been playing with paperwork on what the military needs for years, and this is a good deal. So, I hope the Conservatives go for it. Hell, buy twice as much at that price.

Dosanjh also argued that Canada should contract out heavy lift capability rather than buy new cargo planes for the military. So, I expect as much from him.

The Liberals wanted to replace the Leopards with Strykers, and thus not have tanks at all. Since then, it seems the Strykers have been cancelled.

Also, the Strathconas are gearing up in Kandahar:

Snake · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 21776 Location: e-Thuggin

Wait, so they say there's a need for this equipment, but they won't buy it until they get the numbers straight? And I thought our beaurocracy was bad....

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

Nice to see Harper doing the surplus kit transaction in the right direction - not like the Libs who sold all of their heavy-lift helicopters to the Dutch and guess who's hitching lifts on those Dutch helos in Afghanistan?! I think you're right, Boondoggle, the Liberals have absolutely no credibility on defence.

L337SIMBA · Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 970 Location: Ottawa.

Nice @ Harper. We need military frig. We can't even do peacekeeping rofl..when the Liberal government was in power they were buying their equip from the us military.

so sad
nandan

Snake · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 21776 Location: e-Thuggin

Wait, what's wrong with surplus American equipment? We have some of the best killing machines in the world, imo...

L337SIMBA · Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 970 Location: Ottawa.

Nothing wrong with it. It's l337er than our 60years old crap its just that the government should and does fund the troops with Equip for free and yet these soldiers were buying it out of their own paycheck

nandan

Snake · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 21776 Location: e-Thuggin

damn, that blows....

johnflesh · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 503 Location: Texas

DSwain wrote: Nice to see Harper doing the surplus kit transaction in the right direction - not like the Libs who sold all of their heavy-lift helicopters to the Dutch and guess who's hitching lifts on those Dutch helos in Afghanistan?! I think you're right, Boondoggle, the Liberals have absolutely no credibility on defence.

Aye which is why parties should all work together for a change.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

n2ds wrote: Nothing wrong with it. It's l337er than our 60years old crap its just that the government should and does fund the troops with Equip for free and yet these soldiers were buying it out of their own paycheck

nandan

Am I being an old fart? What does 'l337er' mean? I'm sure it's text/SMS speak - but I really can't work it out

mendosan · Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 2539

DSwain wrote: n2ds wrote: Nothing wrong with it. It's l337er than our 60years old crap its just that the government should and does fund the troops with Equip for free and yet these soldiers were buying it out of their own paycheck

nandan

Am I being an old fart? What does 'l337er' mean? I'm sure it's text/SMS speak - but I really can't work it out

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

mendosan wrote: DSwain wrote: n2ds wrote: Nothing wrong with it. It's l337er than our 60years old crap its just that the government should and does fund the troops with Equip for free and yet these soldiers were buying it out of their own paycheck

nandan

Am I being an old fart? What does 'l337er' mean? I'm sure it's text/SMS speak - but I really can't work it out

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

Thank you Mendosan

The Russian · Joined: 27 Oct 2006 Posts: 384 Location: Buffalo, NY

I think it doesnt exactly have to do with which military surplus they buy from politicaly... it probably has to do with the notion of getting the most "bang for your buck" ... pun intended. The tanks theyre buying are for supression purposes only in missions like afghanistan, whereas these wouldnt cut it in a truly modern war as even the germans have better and are now selling these...

Since these tanks are not realy necessary to any currently ongoing military effort, they should take their time to assess the situation before diving in, so the libs are right. If theres no mil conflict involving canada in the next 10 years, whats the point of owning this rust pile now?... and considering canada's armed conflict record, war equipment might just be a waste of resources at this point and time.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6289

hmmmm--so canada wants to double its number of tanks, bringing the total number to 4.

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

ieatfood wrote: hmmmm--so canada wants to double its number of tanks, bringing the total number to 4.

i was gonna guess 2 :lol:

Boondoggle · Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

The Newb wrote: ieatfood wrote: hmmmm--so canada wants to double its number of tanks, bringing the total number to 4.

i was gonna guess 2 :lol:

Go ahead, get your digs in, but having a huge military doesn't change the fact that you're bogged down in a third world country - again - and trying to figure out how to get out of it.

oooooh buuurn! :shock:

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

What Canada's military might lack in numbers, it more than makes up in quality - as shown by Canada 'punching above its weight' in Kandahar province.

Boondoggle · Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

n2ds wrote: Nothing wrong with it. It's l337er than our 60years old crap its just that the government should and does fund the troops with Equip for free and yet these soldiers were buying it out of their own paycheck

nandan

News to me.

The Liberals did send them over with green camo in the begining, but surprisingly, there are areas in Afghanistan that are green. I've also seen pics of US soldiers in Afghanistan in light green camo.

It's quite possible that they had some other kit problems in the beginning. The US had armor problems with their reserves in Iraq. So, it wouldn't surprise me if Canada had some problems too. However, I haven't heard anything about soldiers paying for it. The kit has been totally changed since then, and they look well equipped now.

Canada does have a history of not exactly being well prepared going into conflicts, but the government does open up the cheque book to cover costs as needed. The country wasn't prepared for WWII either, yet it came out of it with the 3rd largest navy in the world because there was a need for it and because the government was willing to pay for it. The good news is that they're in a good situation financially to cover such costs, and I'm sure they're constantly evaluating what they need.

Reagan · Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:01 am Post subject:

ieatfood wrote: hmmmm--so canada wants to double its number of tanks, bringing the total number to 4.

That's hilarious. :-D

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

Reagan wrote: ieatfood wrote: hmmmm--so canada wants to double its number of tanks, bringing the total number to 4.

That's hilarious. :-D

That you should be seeking to diminish an allied military that's holding down a very difficult and dangerous beat in Afghanistan? Yes, that's really mirthsome.

Reagan · Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject:

I have always pondered what a truly militarily secured North America would be like. I guess we will never know, as our our neighbors to the north are more focused on ineffective social programs rather than the defense of their country. I suppose there is always our (U.S.) air defense network that they can rely upon.