Political Crossfire Forums

RLF · Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 7

In Las Vegas, bringing food to the park and handing it out to the
homeless is punishable by six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.

In Dallas, only approved churches, charities and individuals can serve
the homeless only in approved locations. If not approved, you so much
as offer a biscuit to a hungry person, you are subject to fines up to
$2,000.

Now in Redding if you are one of the more than 2,000 homeless men,
women, and children in Shasta County caught by a small campfire trying
to keep warm within Redding's city limits, you can receive up to six
months in jail, and a $1,000 fine.

Many more Cities are doing the same.......

God, from one end of the Bible to the other, expresses his desire for
us to care, uphold and provide for the poor. Is it God's will that
poverty should be a crime? Is it not written, "He who oppresses the
poor, reproaches His Maker?" Didn't Jesus say, "Assuredly, I say to
you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren,
you did it to me?"

Mental illness does not respond to increased fines and jail time. Home-
lessness does not respond to tearing down their temporary shelters,
throwing away their possessions, and driving them out of town. A lack
of hope does not respond to a lack of love.

We must constructively address the plight of the homeless, and its
multifaceted causes,
before its to late.......

http://reddingloavesandfishes.com/

eynon · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:18 am Post subject:

welcome to the forum..........I agree, those laws are silly and un-christian. I should have the right to give a sandwich to who-ever I want, when-ever I want!

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6505

This is an infringement on private property. As a person who owns stuff, i should be able to give that stuff to whoever i want without the government's interference

this is bs.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

eynon wrote: welcome to the forum..........I agree, those laws are silly and un-christian. I should have the right to give a sandwich to who-ever I want, when-ever I want!

Well, then, I'm your neighbor, and I'm going to set up a booth in my front yard to give food to the homeless......

b.scheller · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject:

The only justification to such laws as existing is to protect those who are unfortunate from being abused. I do not believe that the majority of people who are willing to help t he homeless through unofficial channels (i.e. charities and soup-kitchens) mean any harm, however there are such individuals. These individuals who would readily harm anyone who does not have the ability to feed themselves, to clothe themselves or whatever, are more open to the possibility of doing so, since a homeless person is more likely to accept food and drink (which may be poisoned).

However, at the same time I remain pessimistic of the fact that this the main and actual justification for such laws. Christian or not, America is set up on the basis of secularism, however, whether one is of one denomination or of none, does not mean that help should not be offered to all equally and that serving the common good is the best and most noble act of civil society.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6505

perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: welcome to the forum..........I agree, those laws are silly and un-christian. I should have the right to give a sandwich to who-ever I want, when-ever I want!

Well, then, I'm your neighbor, and I'm going to set up a booth in my front yard to give food to the homeless......

actaully, that cannot be illegal because it is private property

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

ieatfood wrote: perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: welcome to the forum..........I agree, those laws are silly and un-christian. I should have the right to give a sandwich to who-ever I want, when-ever I want!

Well, then, I'm your neighbor, and I'm going to set up a booth in my front yard to give food to the homeless......

actaully, that cannot be illegal because it is private property

Of course it can be illegal. I can't open a business on my private property without a license.

My point on that, is how would you like it if a homeless shelter opened next door to you?

These issues are touchy. I see both sides of them.

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1599 Location: London

perdidochas wrote: My point on that, is how would you like it if a homeless shelter opened next door to you?

We had this issue in my local area a few months back.

A charity called Shelter who deal with vulnerable people who need housing were working in conjunction with an organisation called Emmaus which provides support and training to homeless people. They were looking at opening up a 12 room hostel about 3 streets away from where I live. There was a local council debate about the situation and I felt so sick that the decision was to turn down the application.

The basis for this is that local families argued that there children would be unsafe. They argued homeless people are dangerous due to both drug / drink problems and they were concerned about Pedophiles moving in. I sat there for about 30 mins of listening to this BS before I blew my top and was ejected from the meeting. The major point I raised is that if there is such concern about homeless people having these issues, surely it's better that they are provided the alternative and the chance to escape the situation. The application was denied, and they are still looking for a location.

I have no belief in God, and yet I see these people arguing against it going to church every Sunday. Go figure.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

slitedeviance wrote: perdidochas wrote: My point on that, is how would you like it if a homeless shelter opened next door to you?

We had this issue in my local area a few months back.

A charity called Shelter who deal with vulnerable people who need housing were working in conjunction with an organisation called Emmaus which provides support and training to homeless people. They were looking at opening up a 12 room hostel about 3 streets away from where I live. There was a local council debate about the situation and I felt so sick that the decision was to turn down the application.

The basis for this is that local families argued that there children would be unsafe. They argued homeless people are dangerous due to both drug / drink problems and they were concerned about Pedophiles moving in. I sat there for about 30 mins of listening to this BS before I blew my top and was ejected from the meeting. The major point I raised is that if there is such concern about homeless people having these issues, surely it's better that they are provided the alternative and the chance to escape the situation. The application was denied, and they are still looking for a location.

I have no belief in God, and yet I see these people arguing against it going to church every Sunday. Go figure.

It's a tough issue. Homeless people can be dangerous--too many are either drug/alcohol users or mentally ill/not on medication. I wouldn't want them in my neighborhood. On the other hand, they need our help.

I don't have an answer.

eynon · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:

perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: welcome to the forum..........I agree, those laws are silly and un-christian. I should have the right to give a sandwich to who-ever I want, when-ever I want!

Well, then, I'm your neighbor, and I'm going to set up a booth in my front yard to give food to the homeless......

Great I'll bring over casadillas...... :-D

I've worked with the homless off an on since I was 13, I make dinner for em on sunday nights, and voluteer at a food bank tuesday night.

mostly they're pretty harmless.......

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1599 Location: London

perdidochas wrote: It's a tough issue. Homeless people can be dangerous--too many are either drug/alcohol users or mentally ill/not on medication. I wouldn't want them in my neighborhood. On the other hand, they need our help.

I don't have an answer.

Me either. But it does strike me as an issue if everyone agrees that something needs to be done, but then everyone also adopts a "Not in my back yard" complex. If it has to happen, there has to be a place for it to happen.

In the arguments I put forward I did have a lot of figures from other rehab centres and hostels showing absolutely no increase in crime in the areas (I should say Reported crime). I might try and track these down again.

Babylon_Horuv · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 2087

RLF wrote: In Las Vegas, bringing food to the park and handing it out to the
homeless is punishable by six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.

In Dallas, only approved churches, charities and individuals can serve
the homeless only in approved locations. If not approved, you so much
as offer a biscuit to a hungry person, you are subject to fines up to
$2,000.

Now in Redding if you are one of the more than 2,000 homeless men,
women, and children in Shasta County caught by a small campfire trying
to keep warm within Redding's city limits, you can receive up to six
months in jail, and a $1,000 fine.

Many more Cities are doing the same.......

God, from one end of the Bible to the other, expresses his desire for
us to care, uphold and provide for the poor. Is it God's will that
poverty should be a crime? Is it not written, "He who oppresses the
poor, reproaches His Maker?" Didn't Jesus say, "Assuredly, I say to
you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren,
you did it to me?"

Mental illness does not respond to increased fines and jail time. Home-
lessness does not respond to tearing down their temporary shelters,
throwing away their possessions, and driving them out of town. A lack
of hope does not respond to a lack of love.

We must constructively address the plight of the homeless, and its
multifaceted causes,
before its to late.......

http://reddingloavesandfishes.com/

Actually, homelessness responds great to jailtime. However shelters are cheaper than jail and it seems silly to waste jailspace locking up homeless people when the jails are already overcrowded.

Babylon_Horuv · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 2087

ieatfood wrote: This is an infringement on private property. As a person who owns stuff, i should be able to give that stuff to whoever i want without the government's interference

this is bs.

I believe the rationale the government uses is that you are giving that food to people on public property, that is, their property. I think "handing out food" is a very odd thing to have be a crime, but I am sure they call it "encouraging vagrancy" or some similar nonsense. I guess using Jails to house the homeless is better than putting drug users or dealers in them at least.

Babylon_Horuv · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 2087

perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: welcome to the forum..........I agree, those laws are silly and un-christian. I should have the right to give a sandwich to who-ever I want, when-ever I want!

Well, then, I'm your neighbor, and I'm going to set up a booth in my front yard to give food to the homeless......

I don't think they could forbid that. Since you are doing it on your front lawn which is your property and not government property.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9374

Babylon_Horuv wrote: perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: welcome to the forum..........I agree, those laws are silly and un-christian. I should have the right to give a sandwich to who-ever I want, when-ever I want!

Well, then, I'm your neighbor, and I'm going to set up a booth in my front yard to give food to the homeless......

I don't think they could forbid that. Since you are doing it on your front lawn which is your property and not government property. It all depends on how you are going about it, I suppose. The argument could be made that opening a soup kitchen on your front lawn would bring down the property values of the neighboring homes, thus harming the neighbors.

milk carton · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 87

Quote: Of course it can be illegal. I can't open a business on my private property without a license.

My point on that, is how would you like it if a homeless shelter opened next door to you?

These issues are touchy. I see both sides of them.

does that mean a child who opens a lemonade stand could get arrested?

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

milk carton wrote: Quote: Of course it can be illegal. I can't open a business on my private property without a license.

My point on that, is how would you like it if a homeless shelter opened next door to you?

These issues are touchy. I see both sides of them.

does that mean a child who opens a lemonade stand could get arrested?

They have been (well, not quite, but they have been ordered to shut down their stand by policemen)

ChuckBerry · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 2436 Location: Lafayette, LA

So, our government ought to pass laws that are Christian in nature?

Babylon_Horuv · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 2087

milk carton wrote: Quote: Of course it can be illegal. I can't open a business on my private property without a license.

My point on that, is how would you like it if a homeless shelter opened next door to you?

These issues are touchy. I see both sides of them.

does that mean a child who opens a lemonade stand could get arrested?

technically the child is operating a food establishment without any of the proper permits, so definitely.

eynon · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject:

Babylon_Horuv wrote: perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: welcome to the forum..........I agree, those laws are silly and un-christian. I should have the right to give a sandwich to who-ever I want, when-ever I want!

Well, then, I'm your neighbor, and I'm going to set up a booth in my front yard to give food to the homeless......

I don't think they could forbid that. Since you are doing it on your front lawn which is your property and not government property.

ah.........you've never dealt with the awesome power that is the Homes Owners Association(shudder) :(