Political Crossfire Forums

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The Grandmaster wrote: perdidochas wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: perdidochas wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: You see everyone, I don't have any of these problems.
I don't have a religion to be insulted! :)

You don't want to know what I think about atheists.......

Just for the sake of curiosity, humor me. What do you think of atheists. Please understand, my feelings will not be hurt. (Not asking aggressively, just curious.)

I think atheists are as religious as most theists. Their religion is that they vehemently believe that there can be no God. Most agnostics, I truly believe, have no religion.

I mainly wrote the original statement so you didn't feel excluded.....

:lol:

Hmm... :think:
Then it may be the case I would fit most specifically into the catagory of agnostic afterall.

While I don't necessarily proactively assert there can be no god, my deep skepticism makes me remain very unconvinced that there is in fact one. I have myself, wondered if that it atheism or agnosticism.

Nevertheless, I remain immune to attacks on my religion. :lol:

The question of definition is a confusing one because everyone has their own definition of what "atheist" means. For instance, most religious people believe atheists to be people who exclude the possibility of any supernatural entity or any metaphysical possibility beyond what is manifestly material--and define "atheism" as such. But not all atheists define themselves that way. There are millions of atheists who admit that their understanding of the universe is limited and say that a supernatural power *could* in fact exist--however, their reason and/or experience causes them to believe that any human who says that they know the nature of that entity is full of s**t. Neither logic nor the scientific method, at the present time, answer the questions of the ultimate "why" or the first "how," so it would be patently foolish to write off an explanation we might describe as a "god." Many people consider themselves atheist, however, because the many explanations of the nature of that unknown seem inadequate or flawed.

If I had to choose between the atheist/agnostic designations, I would probable choose agnostic because the most common conception of agnosticism is closest to my opinions; however, it's really a lot more complex than that.

By the way, Jesus Camp makes me worry. I think that it's telling that many of these fundamentalist denominations have to "get them young" and turn children into soldiers for God... maybe the rising rates of skepticism and nonreligion among the generation of people currently in high school and college have something to do with it?

PS: I think your original YouTube link is broken. Here's a better version of it anyway:

Jesus Camp

[Green]

perdidochas wrote: As long as they aren't advocating a violent overthrow of the government, they can teach whatever they want.

Hmm, don't you remember hearing "christian revolution" and basically"impose our religion onto everybody" from a seven year old. Also, there was a woman who said that we need to give our kids guns to fight our enemies.

Think here for second, or actually watch the movie.

[Green]

The Grandmaster wrote: You see everyone, I don't have any of these problems.
I don't have a religion to be insulted! :)

But we can insult atheism. :wink:

(I will not actually do this because I believe that the first ammendment is definite, but I can replace bush with atheism in a Bush rant)

[Refrozen Seabass]

[quote="perdidochas"]I think atheists are as religious as most theists. Their religion is that they vehemently believe that there can be no God.[/Qoute]

No, it's not a religion. It's simply a belief. I don't believe in Leprechauns either. Do I belong to two religions?

[perdidochas]

[quote="Refrozen Seabass"] perdidochas wrote: I think atheists are as religious as most theists. Their religion is that they vehemently believe that there can be no God.[/Qoute]

No, it's not a religion. It's simply a belief. I don't believe in Leprechauns either. Do I belong to two religions?

The 4th definition of Religion in the American Heritage Dictionary can easily apply to atheists:

re·li·gion (rĭ-lĭj'ən)
n.

1) a) Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b) A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2) The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3) A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4) A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

[Refrozen Seabass]

The Grandmaster wrote: While I don't necessarily proactively assert there can be no god, my deep skepticism makes me remain very unconvinced that there is in fact one. I have myself, wondered if that it atheism or agnosticism.

It's atheism.

I don't believe in God. There are certain things that would need to happen that might change that belief, things that cannot possibly be explained by anything other than an entity that can control but is not bound by the constraints of this universe. I have no reason to think these events take place. I'm an atheist.

I don't believe in Leprechauns. If tomorrow morning Leprechauns are running around everywhere and people are carrying little plundered pots of gold, I would have to reassess that belief.

Should I be hedging my bets as to whether or not this will happen and call myself agnostic when it comes to Leprechauns? Of course not.

[Refrozen Seabass]

perdidochas wrote: Refrozen Seabass wrote: perdidochas wrote: I think atheists are as religious as most theists. Their religion is that they vehemently believe that there can be no God.[/Qoute]

No, it's not a religion. It's simply a belief. I don't believe in Leprechauns either. Do I belong to two religions?

The 4th definition of Religion in the American Heritage Dictionary can easily apply to atheists:

re·li·gion (rĭ-lĭj'ən)
n.

1) a) Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b) A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2) The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3) A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4) A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Which one applies to atheism, O' lettered one?

[perdidochas]

Refrozen Seabass wrote: perdidochas wrote: Refrozen Seabass wrote: perdidochas wrote: I think atheists are as religious as most theists. Their religion is that they vehemently believe that there can be no God.[/Qoute]

No, it's not a religion. It's simply a belief. I don't believe in Leprechauns either. Do I belong to two religions?

The 4th definition of Religion in the American Heritage Dictionary can easily apply to atheists:

re·li·gion (rĭ-lĭj'ən)
n.

1) a) Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b) A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2) The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3) A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4) A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Which one applies to atheism, O' lettered one?

The 4th one can. It doesn't always, but it can.

[Refrozen Seabass]

It's not a cause or a principle or an activity. It's a belief. I don't believe dogs and cats can mate, either. Is that a religion too?

To lump the fourth definition, which essentially describes a pasttime one really really likes, in with the belief in and worship of the supernatural so you can say atheism is a religion too is lacking in candor.

It's shouting, "Nuh-uh!" and pointing at a dictionary. It's not very convincing.

[eynon]

Refrozen Seabass wrote: It's not a cause or a principle or an activity. It's a belief. I don't believe dogs and cats can mate, either. Is that a religion too?

well it could be.....but you're gonna have a hard time getting tax-exempt status, and what would sunday school be like? :-|

[perdidochas]

Refrozen Seabass wrote: It's not a cause or a principle or an activity. It's a belief. I don't believe dogs and cats can mate, either. Is that a religion too?

To lump the fourth definition, which essentially describes a pasttime one really really likes, in with the belief in and worship of the supernatural so you can say atheism is a religion too is lacking in candor.

It's shouting, "Nuh-uh!" and pointing at a dictionary. It's not very convincing.

It's a subtle argument, that you obviously missed. Notice the qualifiers I use whenever I broach this subject. I didn't say that all atheists are religious. I said that atheists can be religious. Do you understand the difference?

There are "religious" atheists. They follow atheism with a religious devotion. This guy for instance: www.infidelguy.com/ Without a doubt, atheism is his religion.

[perdidochas]

eynon wrote: Refrozen Seabass wrote: It's not a cause or a principle or an activity. It's a belief. I don't believe dogs and cats can mate, either. Is that a religion too?

well it could be.....but you're gonna have a hard time getting tax-exempt status, and what would sunday school be like? :-|

There are atheist churches:

www.acfnewsource.org/religion/atheist_church.html

And they do have tax exempt status.

[eynon]

perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: Refrozen Seabass wrote: It's not a cause or a principle or an activity. It's a belief. I don't believe dogs and cats can mate, either. Is that a religion too?

well it could be.....but you're gonna have a hard time getting tax-exempt status, and what would sunday school be like? :-|

There are atheist churches:

www.acfnewsource.org/religion/atheist_church.html

And they do have tax exempt status.

but the dog and cat thing? the ASPCA may have issues :lol:

[perdidochas]

eynon wrote: perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: Refrozen Seabass wrote: It's not a cause or a principle or an activity. It's a belief. I don't believe dogs and cats can mate, either. Is that a religion too?

well it could be.....but you're gonna have a hard time getting tax-exempt status, and what would sunday school be like? :-|

There are atheist churches:

www.acfnewsource.org/religion/atheist_church.html

And they do have tax exempt status.

but the dog and cat thing? the ASPCA may have issues :lol:

Well, dogs and cat not being able to mate is a physical thing. Their parts don't match....

[eynon]

perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: perdidochas wrote: eynon wrote: Refrozen Seabass wrote: It's not a cause or a principle or an activity. It's a belief. I don't believe dogs and cats can mate, either. Is that a religion too?

well it could be.....but you're gonna have a hard time getting tax-exempt status, and what would sunday school be like? :-|

There are atheist churches:

www.acfnewsource.org/religion/atheist_church.html

And they do have tax exempt status.

but the dog and cat thing? the ASPCA may have issues :lol:

Well, dogs and cat not being able to mate is a physical thing. Their parts don't match....

oh stop :lol: