Political Crossfire Forums

[mattman42]

Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

[thintheherd]

britboy wrote: I believe anyone who thinks they can outwit and outshoot professional, violent criminals -- and is relying on that fact (which is the only way carrying concealed could possibly be justified). Well - to be honest - I think they haven't got a clue.
And I believe anyone that refers to muggers as "professional, violent criminals" hasn't got a clue.

On average, someone that has not figured out a better living outside of mugging won't be much of an opponent in a battle of wits and most likely hasn't even shot the weapon he bought under the table to aid him in his chosen occupation. Hardly professional.

Been around the world have you BB and not able to do that math?

THAT is indeed puzzling.

[Onevote]

britboy wrote: Boneman wrote: britboy wrote: Boneman wrote: OK, a little scenario for you. You have been sent to Washington D.C./ Cali/ Johannesburg/ Baghdad/ Glasgow on a business trip. You know for a fact that the city you are visiting is the murder capital of its respective continent and that you will most likely be visiting some of the most deprived areas of the city (It seems like a pretty crap job I know). You also know that there are many, many muggers, rapists, gangs and murderers in this city, and the vast majority of them are armed, mostly with guns but some with knives. Your company is offering you a pistol to take with you on your visit (highly improbable I know) for self-protection, as the company cannot afford professional body guards. Assume that you have a rough understanding and experience with pistols. Also assume that pistols can be legally carried in each of these cities (which they can't in reality). Would you accept the firearm and carry it in a concealed holster, or do you believe the pistol would put you in even more danger (if that’s even possible)?
P.S. You cannot resign, as the company you are part of is actually the Mob.
P.S.S Britboy you've really set a trend with your scenarios!

I've been to loads of nasty places in my life -- South Central LA, all around New York, Glasgow, Nasty places in London.

Of course I'd never want a pistol as I want the smallest chance of me being shot possible.

How would you carrying a concealed weapon increase your chances of being shot at? They can't magically know that your carrying a weapon. The gun is more there to defend yourself if you do get in a tricky situation. Or do you believe the best thing to do is try and be as non-violent as possible and let them do what they want? That strategy can work, but it probably woudn't be particularly reliablewith the well 'ard gangstas you are likley to meet in these cities.

Obvious -- if concealed carry is legit -- the criminal will have to presume I am carrying. A lot more dangerous for me.

People like Airo tell me the concealed carry is NOT a deterrent -- in fact they are not supposed yo know you have a gun.

I think we both know all a gun would do is take the encounter to the next level. It would greatly, vastly increase the change of either him or myself being shot.

I believe anyone who thinks they can outwit and outshoot professional, violent criminals -- and is relying on that fact (which is the only way carrying concealed could possibly be justified). Well - to be honest - I think they haven't got a clue. Most street thugs are violent, yes, but usually not so good at shooting straight. In most cases the gun they may have is illegal and pistol ranges aren't around areas that have a ban of handguns. I.E no place to practice. These guys usually can't shoot for crap. Outwitting a street thug may not be all that hard to do, but underestimating his violent nature might just be the thing that gets you hurt.

Just a few weeks ago here in the Tampa area two teenagers, one a girl the other a boy were shot because they wouldn't give their cell phone to a thug. Some of these knuckleheads will be violent regardless of what you give them.

[britboy]

mattman42 wrote: Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

Let's see, if I was in the US and I could either mug a Texan, or buy a 2 way round trip to the UK, somehow hoping I'd manage to meet some dodgy geezer who would sell me a gun, then mug someone, then escape back to the US having spent my $800 to travel ?

Er .. which would you go for?

Now, let me fire one back at you (excuse the pun) ... if you were a mugger and you didn't want to hurt your victim you just wanted his cash (yes, funny enough, most muggers just want the cash), which victim are you most likely to hurt? The guy you know is definately not armed and hands over the cash or the guy who is making a pathetic attempt to retrieve some Walter PPK stuffed into the small of his back? For 20 points? Hell .. for 50 points? Who are you gonna have to physically subdue?

[micfranklin]

britboy wrote: mattman42 wrote: Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

Let's see, if I was in the US and I could either mug a Texan, or buy a 2 way round trip to the UK, somehow hoping I'd manage to meet some dodgy geezer who would sell me a gun, then mug someone, then escape back to the US having spent my $800 to travel ?

Er .. which would you go for?

Now, let me fire one back at you (excuse the pun) ... if you were a mugger and you didn't want to hurt your victim you just wanted his cash (yes, funny enough, most muggers just want the cash), which victim are you most likely to hurt? The guy you know is definately not armed and hands over the cash or the guy who is making a pathetic attempt to retrieve some Walter PPK stuffed into the small of his back? For 20 points? Hell .. for 50 points? Who are you gonna have to physically subdue?

Simple. Mug the guy who you know isn't armed.

[mattman42]

micfranklin wrote: britboy wrote: mattman42 wrote: Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

Let's see, if I was in the US and I could either mug a Texan, or buy a 2 way round trip to the UK, somehow hoping I'd manage to meet some dodgy geezer who would sell me a gun, then mug someone, then escape back to the US having spent my $800 to travel ?

Er .. which would you go for?

Now, let me fire one back at you (excuse the pun) ... if you were a mugger and you didn't want to hurt your victim you just wanted his cash (yes, funny enough, most muggers just want the cash), which victim are you most likely to hurt? The guy you know is definately not armed and hands over the cash or the guy who is making a pathetic attempt to retrieve some Walter PPK stuffed into the small of his back? For 20 points? Hell .. for 50 points? Who are you gonna have to physically subdue?

Simple. Mug the guy who you know isn't armed.

Yeah, no kidding. After all, Britboy, the guy just wants the money, right? He doesnt want a physical altercation. Right? Wouldn't that mean that he'd go for the easier target, therefore proving everyones' points in favor of CCW true?

P.S. It's pretty easy to draw a gun quickly. With very little practice, any attempt to do so is hardly pathetic.

P.S.S. I must be psychic. You totally avoided giving a direct answer like I said you would. It's a question with two possible answers - A or B! How hard is that?!

[britboy]

micfranklin wrote: britboy wrote: mattman42 wrote: Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

Let's see, if I was in the US and I could either mug a Texan, or buy a 2 way round trip to the UK, somehow hoping I'd manage to meet some dodgy geezer who would sell me a gun, then mug someone, then escape back to the US having spent my $800 to travel ?

Er .. which would you go for?

Now, let me fire one back at you (excuse the pun) ... if you were a mugger and you didn't want to hurt your victim you just wanted his cash (yes, funny enough, most muggers just want the cash), which victim are you most likely to hurt? The guy you know is definately not armed and hands over the cash or the guy who is making a pathetic attempt to retrieve some Walter PPK stuffed into the small of his back? For 20 points? Hell .. for 50 points? Who are you gonna have to physically subdue?

Simple. Mug the guy who you know isn't armed.

Read the question again! Slower! Which of the two victims are you more likely to hurt?

[britboy]

mattman42 wrote: micfranklin wrote: britboy wrote: mattman42 wrote: Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

Let's see, if I was in the US and I could either mug a Texan, or buy a 2 way round trip to the UK, somehow hoping I'd manage to meet some dodgy geezer who would sell me a gun, then mug someone, then escape back to the US having spent my $800 to travel ?

Er .. which would you go for?

Now, let me fire one back at you (excuse the pun) ... if you were a mugger and you didn't want to hurt your victim you just wanted his cash (yes, funny enough, most muggers just want the cash), which victim are you most likely to hurt? The guy you know is definately not armed and hands over the cash or the guy who is making a pathetic attempt to retrieve some Walter PPK stuffed into the small of his back? For 20 points? Hell .. for 50 points? Who are you gonna have to physically subdue?

Simple. Mug the guy who you know isn't armed.

Yeah, no kidding. After all, Britboy, the guy just wants the money, right? He doesnt want a physical altercation. Right? Wouldn't that mean that he'd go for the easier target, therefore proving everyones' points in favor of CCW true?

P.S. It's pretty easy to draw a gun quickly. With very little practice, any attempt to do so is hardly pathetic.

P.S.S. I must be psychic. You totally avoided giving a direct answer like I said you would. It's a question with two possible answers - A or B! How hard is that?!

Its a silly question. Muggers don't have a reasonable choive on whether to mug someone in a gun control area or a pro-gun area. If muggers could mug anyone in the world, well most of them would probably choose some oil sultan in Saudi Arabia during his morning bath or something. The question is just bizarre. Muggings still happen in the US .. muggers don't choose to fly to an area with harsher gun control, as it's not worth it to them.

Until someone invents the teleporter -- your question is -- well -- kind'a silly.

[thintheherd]

I'd bet your high school drop out "professional criminal" would have been able to answer the question without vapor-locking on the Star Trek inference.


:lol: :lol:

[micfranklin]

britboy wrote: mattman42 wrote: micfranklin wrote: britboy wrote: mattman42 wrote: Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

Let's see, if I was in the US and I could either mug a Texan, or buy a 2 way round trip to the UK, somehow hoping I'd manage to meet some dodgy geezer who would sell me a gun, then mug someone, then escape back to the US having spent my $800 to travel ?

Er .. which would you go for?

Now, let me fire one back at you (excuse the pun) ... if you were a mugger and you didn't want to hurt your victim you just wanted his cash (yes, funny enough, most muggers just want the cash), which victim are you most likely to hurt? The guy you know is definately not armed and hands over the cash or the guy who is making a pathetic attempt to retrieve some Walter PPK stuffed into the small of his back? For 20 points? Hell .. for 50 points? Who are you gonna have to physically subdue?

Simple. Mug the guy who you know isn't armed.

Yeah, no kidding. After all, Britboy, the guy just wants the money, right? He doesnt want a physical altercation. Right? Wouldn't that mean that he'd go for the easier target, therefore proving everyones' points in favor of CCW true?

P.S. It's pretty easy to draw a gun quickly. With very little practice, any attempt to do so is hardly pathetic.

P.S.S. I must be psychic. You totally avoided giving a direct answer like I said you would. It's a question with two possible answers - A or B! How hard is that?!

Its a silly question. Muggers don't have a reasonable choive on whether to mug someone in a gun control area or a pro-gun area. If muggers could mug anyone in the world, well most of them would probably choose some oil sultan in Saudi Arabia during his morning bath or something. The question is just bizarre. Muggings still happen in the US .. muggers don't choose to fly to an area with harsher gun control, as it's not worth it to them.

Until someone invents the teleporter -- your question is -- well -- kind'a silly.

I think you've got that wrong. Any smart mugger would probably head to a gun control area, as the people living there are less likely to have (or appear to have) weapons on them.

Trying to mug someone in a pro-gun area would end with the mugger in a body bag.

[Lucky Luke]

Boneman wrote: OK, a little scenario for you. You have been sent to Washington D.C./ Cali/ Johannesburg/ Baghdad/ Glasgow on a business trip. You know for a fact that the city you are visiting is the murder capital of its respective continent and that you will most likely be visiting some of the most deprived areas of the city (It seems like a pretty crap job I know). You also know that there are many, many muggers, rapists, gangs and murderers in this city, and the vast majority of them are armed, mostly with guns but some with knives. Your company is offering you a pistol to take with you on your visit (highly improbable I know) for self-protection, as the company cannot afford professional body guards. Assume that you have a rough understanding and experience with pistols. Also assume that pistols can be legally carried in each of these cities (which they can't in reality). Would you accept the firearm and carry it in a concealed holster, or do you believe the pistol would put you in even more danger (if that’s even possible)?
P.S. You cannot resign, as the company you are part of is actually the Mob.
P.S.S Britboy you've really set a trend with your scenarios!

Please do replace Washington DC with another American city, not far you have the city of Richmond VA with a higher murder rate.

I lived for years in one of the poorest neighbourhoods of Glasgow. I never felt the need to be armed with a gun or a knife.

I'll warn you not to show a gun to some Glasgow mob, they have no fear and the reaction will be very different of what you would experience in a more polite society.

:-D
:-D

[Boneman]

Lucky Luke wrote: Boneman wrote: OK, a little scenario for you. You have been sent to Washington D.C./ Cali/ Johannesburg/ Baghdad/ Glasgow on a business trip. You know for a fact that the city you are visiting is the murder capital of its respective continent and that you will most likely be visiting some of the most deprived areas of the city (It seems like a pretty crap job I know). You also know that there are many, many muggers, rapists, gangs and murderers in this city, and the vast majority of them are armed, mostly with guns but some with knives. Your company is offering you a pistol to take with you on your visit (highly improbable I know) for self-protection, as the company cannot afford professional body guards. Assume that you have a rough understanding and experience with pistols. Also assume that pistols can be legally carried in each of these cities (which they can't in reality). Would you accept the firearm and carry it in a concealed holster, or do you believe the pistol would put you in even more danger (if that’s even possible)?
P.S. You cannot resign, as the company you are part of is actually the Mob.
P.S.S Britboy you've really set a trend with your scenarios!

Please do replace Washington DC with another American city, not far you have the city of Richmond VA with a higher murder rate.

I lived for years in one of the poorest neighbourhoods of Glasgow. I never felt the need to be armed with a gun or a knife.

I'll warn you not to show a gun to some Glasgow mob, they have no fear and the reaction will be very different of what you would experience in a more polite society.

:-D
:-D
i don't advocate just waving a gun around whenever things get a little hariy, but if this mob takes a dislike to you (which in glaswegian terms justifies a stabbing or a beating) and are not put off by you waving it around, they just might be put off by being dead.

[private_citizen]

britboy wrote: mattman42 wrote: Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

Let's see, if I was in the US and I could either mug a Texan, or buy a 2 way round trip to the UK, somehow hoping I'd manage to meet some dodgy geezer who would sell me a gun, then mug someone, then escape back to the US having spent my $800 to travel ?

Er .. which would you go for?

Now, let me fire one back at you (excuse the pun) ... if you were a mugger and you didn't want to hurt your victim you just wanted his cash (yes, funny enough, most muggers just want the cash), which victim are you most likely to hurt? The guy you know is definately not armed and hands over the cash or the guy who is making a pathetic attempt to retrieve some Walter PPK stuffed into the small of his back? For 20 points? Hell .. for 50 points? Who are you gonna have to physically subdue?

I knew you would "skirt" around the subject... PUN intended

[perdidochas]

britboy wrote: micfranklin wrote: britboy wrote: mattman42 wrote: Quote: A little scenario for you Britboy, seeing as your so fond of them, you are a mugger, would you rather mug A) a Texan, who may or may not have a CCW, or B) an Englishman, who will not.

Excellent question. I look forward to seeing how he'll work his way around answering it directly.

Let's see, if I was in the US and I could either mug a Texan, or buy a 2 way round trip to the UK, somehow hoping I'd manage to meet some dodgy geezer who would sell me a gun, then mug someone, then escape back to the US having spent my $800 to travel ?

Er .. which would you go for?

Now, let me fire one back at you (excuse the pun) ... if you were a mugger and you didn't want to hurt your victim you just wanted his cash (yes, funny enough, most muggers just want the cash), which victim are you most likely to hurt? The guy you know is definately not armed and hands over the cash or the guy who is making a pathetic attempt to retrieve some Walter PPK stuffed into the small of his back? For 20 points? Hell .. for 50 points? Who are you gonna have to physically subdue?

Simple. Mug the guy who you know isn't armed.

Read the question again! Slower! Which of the two victims are you more likely to hurt?

It is foolish to draw on a criminal who's got a gun on you. If I were the guy with the Walther PPK, and the criminal got the drop on me, I'd hand over the cash. Now, when the criminal turned around to leave, I might draw.......... You set up a strawman, not a real situation (as usual).

[Lucky Luke]

Boneman wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: Boneman wrote: OK, a little scenario for you. You have been sent to Washington D.C./ Cali/ Johannesburg/ Baghdad/ Glasgow on a business trip. You know for a fact that the city you are visiting is the murder capital of its respective continent and that you will most likely be visiting some of the most deprived areas of the city (It seems like a pretty crap job I know). You also know that there are many, many muggers, rapists, gangs and murderers in this city, and the vast majority of them are armed, mostly with guns but some with knives. Your company is offering you a pistol to take with you on your visit (highly improbable I know) for self-protection, as the company cannot afford professional body guards. Assume that you have a rough understanding and experience with pistols. Also assume that pistols can be legally carried in each of these cities (which they can't in reality). Would you accept the firearm and carry it in a concealed holster, or do you believe the pistol would put you in even more danger (if that’s even possible)?
P.S. You cannot resign, as the company you are part of is actually the Mob.
P.S.S Britboy you've really set a trend with your scenarios!

Please do replace Washington DC with another American city, not far you have the city of Richmond VA with a higher murder rate.

I lived for years in one of the poorest neighbourhoods of Glasgow. I never felt the need to be armed with a gun or a knife.

I'll warn you not to show a gun to some Glasgow mob, they have no fear and the reaction will be very different of what you would experience in a more polite society.

:-D
:-D
i don't advocate just waving a gun around whenever things get a little hariy, but if this mob takes a dislike to you (which in glaswegian terms justifies a stabbing or a beating) and are not put off by you waving it around, they just might be put off by being dead.

In some of the poorest neighbourhoods of Glasgow, no.

They are the ones not afraid to die but you are and they know it, they can smell your fear with or without a gun.

:-D
:-D