Political Crossfire Forums

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

I know there are many people who are anti-Israel and they list the following reasons about Israel:

1. It is inherently apartheid
2. It is the forefront of the American Empire
3. It conducts "state terrorism"
4. It has a huge standing army compared to the country size.

Now i know these points have been butchered to death but recently I've discovered that there is a very active Anti-Israel organization in my hometown (I live in Massachusetts) called the New England Organization for Free Palestine (or something) that is affiliated with a SDP?? does anyone know of such organizations, or who LIVE in Massachusetts.

I happen to know a few people who are active Anti-Israel

The thing that troubles me is the degree to which these people endorse Hamas, saying that it is "reasonable" that they would commit acts of violence against civilians because of the way they are treated by Israel.

lucidnightmare · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject:

There are some active 'anti Zionist' as they call themselves active at Duke in NC.I think they are just run of the mill Jew paranoids.

Quote: The thing that troubles me is the degree to which these people endorse Hamas, saying that it is "reasonable" that they would commit acts of violence against civilians because of the way they are treated by Israel.

Good.Let them talk.The more radical the better.Let them dig their holes deep.

Snake · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 21776 Location: e-Thuggin

Actually, there are "anti-zionist" jews as well. Look it up. It's sort of an lol? moment.....

Personally, I don't care about Isreal, or their politics or whatever. What they do is their business. The only problem I have with Isreal is that I feel it was a bad choice in realestate.

bunny · Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 584

Hamas is not a bad thing - the military wing of hamas, on the other hand, is an issue.

Hamas provides essential services to the people of Gaza; schools, housing, medicine... That is, until the world endorsed turning Gaza in an outdoor prison.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7749 Location: Petah Tikva

The Nazi's also built schools, rebuilt the German economy, and lifted it's people out from poverty. They were however still evil, and still horrible.

bunny · Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 584

superskippy wrote: The Nazi's also built schools, rebuilt the German economy, and lifted it's people out from poverty. They were however still evil, and still horrible.

So we are comparing the Nazi's to Hamas already... :roll:

(quick, next person who says something critical of Israel gets labeled an Anti-Semite)

CountryGuy · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 1018 Location: Pennsylvania

bunny wrote: superskippy wrote: The Nazi's also built schools, rebuilt the German economy, and lifted it's people out from poverty. They were however still evil, and still horrible.

So we are comparing the Nazi's to Hamas already... :roll:

(quick, next person who says something critical of Israel gets labeled an Anti-Semite)

Before you label that association overboard... Please note that you're in the exact opposite extreme by saying Hamas' military wing is just "an issue". Both are way off the mark, but I'd say they are closer to the Nazi concept than just an irritating "issue", sorry.

As for "Anti-Israel" groups in America in the OP's post, they are certainly permitted, and there's nothing wrong with someone having that opinion - Not everyone has to like Israel. However, there is a difference between that, and supporting a known terrorist organization responsible for continuous, direct targeting of civilians.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7749 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: So we are comparing the Nazi's to Hamas already...

Fine the Soviets industrialized Russia, rebuilt a modern economy, and lifted Russia into a world power, but they still killed millions of their own people and were indeed horrible and evil.

lucidnightmare · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:50 am Post subject:

bunny wrote: superskippy wrote: The Nazi's also built schools, rebuilt the German economy, and lifted it's people out from poverty. They were however still evil, and still horrible.

So we are comparing the Nazi's to Hamas already... :roll:

(quick, next person who says something critical of Israel gets labeled an Anti-Semite)

Hamas certainly is.

bunny · Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 584

Whoa, so I guess everyone in here thinks the same way about the good ol USA & the Native AMerican Genocide, Internment Camps, And being the only nation to drop a nuclear bomb onto a civilian population...Twice! Afterall, God does talk to it's leaders, and all.

lucidnightmare · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:13 am Post subject:

bunny wrote: Whoa, so I guess everyone in here thinks the same way about the good ol USA & the Native AMerican Genocide, Internment Camps, And being the only nation to drop a nuclear bomb onto a civilian population...Twice! Afterall, God does talk to it's leaders, and all.

Most Americans would admit that the native Americans were mistreated.But it's more complex than that since many tribes were more than willing to take sides to leverage against rival tribes.Fighting with the British at times didn't help them much either.

In WW2 civilian populations were bombed all the time by both sides.It was called total war.

None of which has anything to do with Hamas today though.

bunny · Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 584

lucidnightmare wrote:

None of which has anything to do with Hamas today though.

Awesome, does that mean we are finished with sensationalized comparisons of Hamas to the Nazi's?

Because, if anything, Israel is more comparable to the Nazi's, inre: it's treatment of Arabs, specifically; Palestinians.

lucidnightmare · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:32 am Post subject:

bunny wrote: lucidnightmare wrote:

None of which has anything to do with Hamas today though.

Awesome, does that mean we are finished with sensationalized comparisons of Hamas to the Nazi's?

Because, if anything, Israel is more comparable to the Nazi's, inre: it's treatment of Arabs, specifically; Palestinians.

I didn't say that anyway.

The Palestinians made the bed they are in with their own actions though.I don't feel sorry for them.

There are American street gangs who deserve a country as much as they do,and could likely run it better.

bunny · Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 584

lucidnightmare wrote:

The Palestinians made the bed they are in with their own actions though.I don't feel sorry for them.

In a sense, I agree with you here, in spirit. However, I donot believe in a collective punishment for an entire demographic, due to the actions of a few. The Palestinian Issue goes far beyond; "you made your bed, now you sleep in it" type of an analogy.

Who I don't feel sorry for at all, is Israel. Afterall, 40 years of occupying your neighbors, killing thier families, bulldozing thier homes, destroying thier land to build walls, has it's impact on the causulity of the relationship, which in turns breeds contempt, and in this case, it seems, a terroristic attitude towards Israel.

lucidnightmare · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject:

It isn't collective punishment as much as it is a lack of anything else that can be done.

I believe if Islam was taken out of the mix and they were just dealing with nationalism a deal would have already been made.But there is the problem of the god gave me land idea and the seeming inability of fundamentalist Muslims to coexist with anyone unless they are busted down to second class citizenship.Like most any fundamentalist are.

They like to pat themselves on the back for being tolerant when they don't cut your head off and "allow' others to live with them.But there is never equal status of minority religions or people.

lucidnightmare · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject:

double post

Snake · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 21776 Location: e-Thuggin

bunny wrote: Hamas is not a bad thing - the military wing of hamas, on the other hand, is an issue.

Hamas provides essential services to the people of Gaza; schools, housing, medicine... You mean like Milosevich and Arkon's Tigres?

bunny · Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 584

lucidnightmare wrote: It isn't collective punishment as much as it is a lack of anything else that can be done.

BS

Israel is controlling the borders, controlling movement, controlling land, controlling water distribution, annexing land, bombing civilian targets, cutting off international aid, launching daily raids against civilians with no legal authority & acting with impunity via the IDF, killing children in grossly inflated numbers.... damn, the list goes on.

Israel is an Occupying Force, and has responsibilities under international treaties, that it is ignoring, in turn, dispensing collective punishment upon an entire demographic.

There is plenty "that can be done", and to say otherwise is simply ignorant & dismissive.

CountryGuy · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 1018 Location: Pennsylvania

bunny wrote: lucidnightmare wrote: It isn't collective punishment as much as it is a lack of anything else that can be done.

BS

Israel is controlling the borders, controlling movement, controlling land, controlling water distribution, annexing land, bombing civilian targets, cutting off international aid, launching daily raids against civilians with no legal authority & acting with impunity via the IDF, killing children in grossly inflated numbers.... damn, the list goes on.

Israel is an Occupying Force, and has responsibilities under international treaties, that it is ignoring, in turn, dispensing collective punishment upon an entire demographic.

There is plenty "that can be done", and to say otherwise is simply ignorant & dismissive.

Please show me via a reputable source where Israeli forces have directly targeted civilians -- I'm not talking about civilians in the presence of a Hamas leader, those engaged in attacking troops, etc., but cases where Israel was specifically trying to kill civilians just to slaughter them.

Now, compare that to Hamas, people who are practically joyful when they blow up a pizza parlor.

That, in a nutshell, is why you will be hard-pressed to see tangible support of Palestine while Hamas is in control.

Snake · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 21776 Location: e-Thuggin

Oh no, don't you see, they waited until hamas was in a building before they blew it up. The Isrealis are total nazis man :roll: