Political Crossfire Forums

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 8780

ieatfood wrote: You know ghosts are bs because people always see ghosts walking AND passing through walls.

That is an impossibility. Walking implies that they have some physical material existance--that they interact with the protons in the floor and are therefore composed of protons themselves. Passing through walls implies that they are not composed of protons and therefore are not inhibited by the protons in the walls. You cant have it both ways. The supernatural isn't bound by the physical rules that we are.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6289

Enoch wrote: ieatfood wrote: You know ghosts are bs because people always see ghosts walking AND passing through walls.

That is an impossibility. Walking implies that they have some physical material existance--that they interact with the protons in the floor and are therefore composed of protons themselves. Passing through walls implies that they are not composed of protons and therefore are not inhibited by the protons in the walls. You cant have it both ways. The supernatural isn't bound by the physical rules that we are.

yea but why are they bound to the rule that protons repel one another so they have walking functionality but dismiss this rule so they have passing-through-wall capability?

why are the floor protons any different than the wall protons?

it seems to me that if they have wall-passing-through capability, then they dont have to be affected by gravity. Thus, why are they going to all this trouble so they can walk?

why walk when you can fly?

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

If they are Supernatural, then by deifnition they can have no effect on the natural world - they are 'above' Nature.

THat means you can't feel them, see them, hear them, or have any other interaction with them whatsoever, since your senses are Natural.

If you see one, that means there is a natural component to them - ergo, they are not Supernatural.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 8780

:lol:

I love the logical attempts at explaining ghosts.

Ghosts are pure energy, actually on another plane of existence than we are. At times, they cross over in to our world. It is like superimposing one photograph on top of another. But, since they are pure energy, it is possible for them to affect our world as everything in our world has energy to it.

I know that may not be as indepth an explanation as people may want, but its the best I can do to explain the supernatural. (Oh, and don't give me the "supernatural means they are natural" argument....you know full well what I mean when I use the word).

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

Enoch wrote: :lol:

I love the logical attempts at explaining ghosts.

Ghosts are pure energy, actually on another plane of existence than we are. At times, they cross over in to our world. It is like superimposing one photograph on top of another. But, since they are pure energy, it is possible for them to affect our world as everything in our world has energy to it.

I know that may not be as indepth an explanation as people may want, but its the best I can do to explain the supernatural. (Oh, and don't give me the "supernatural means they are natural" argument....you know full well what I mean when I use the word).

No I don't. Supernatural means they are NOT natural. Energy is part of the Natural world. I don't know is energy is part of the supernatural world. Nobody knows what is part of the Supernatural world, so I wonder how you know so much about ghosts?

How do you know? What proof do you have?

BTW, what is "pure" energy? Energy can be detected by a number of tools.
Heat, chemical, mechanical, electrical, etc.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 8780

mODULAR mAN wrote: Enoch wrote: :lol:

I love the logical attempts at explaining ghosts.

Ghosts are pure energy, actually on another plane of existence than we are. At times, they cross over in to our world. It is like superimposing one photograph on top of another. But, since they are pure energy, it is possible for them to affect our world as everything in our world has energy to it.

I know that may not be as indepth an explanation as people may want, but its the best I can do to explain the supernatural. (Oh, and don't give me the "supernatural means they are natural" argument....you know full well what I mean when I use the word).

No I don't. Supernatural means they are NOT natural. Energy is part of the Natural world. I don't know is energy is part of the supernatural world. Nobody knows what is part of the Supernatural world, so I wonder how you know so much about ghosts?
How do you know? What proof do you have?

BTW, what is "pure" energy? Energy can be detected by a number of tools.
Heat, chemical, mechanical, electrical, etc.

All of that is based on my personal experiences. That's all I have, that's all anyone has. If you don't believe in ghosts, that's fine.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15372 Location: Florida

BOggThe1rst wrote: I personally do not,
Thoughts?

I believe in the supernatural--namely demons and angels. I don't believe in ghosts.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 8780

perdidochas wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: I personally do not,
Thoughts?

I believe in the supernatural--namely demons and angels. I don't believe in ghosts. Out of curiosity, why do you believe in angels & demons, but not ghosts?

Not trying to argue...just wondering.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15372 Location: Florida

Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: I personally do not,
Thoughts?

I believe in the supernatural--namely demons and angels. I don't believe in ghosts. Out of curiosity, why do you believe in angels & demons, but not ghosts?

Not trying to argue...just wondering.

Theological reasons. There is nothing in Christian theology that indicates that ghosts can exist. Angels and demons are specifically mentioned.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 8780

perdidochas wrote: Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: I personally do not,
Thoughts?

I believe in the supernatural--namely demons and angels. I don't believe in ghosts. Out of curiosity, why do you believe in angels & demons, but not ghosts?

Not trying to argue...just wondering.

Theological reasons. There is nothing in Christian theology that indicates that ghosts can exist. Angels and demons are specifically mentioned. Understandable. I suppose we all are influenced by our religious beliefs, from Christian to Pagan to Atheist.

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: I personally do not,
Thoughts?

I believe in the supernatural--namely demons and angels. I don't believe in ghosts. Out of curiosity, why do you believe in angels & demons, but not ghosts?

Not trying to argue...just wondering.

Theological reasons. There is nothing in Christian theology that indicates that ghosts can exist. Angels and demons are specifically mentioned. Understandable. I suppose we all are influenced by our religious beliefs, from Christian to Pagan to Atheist.

Atheism isn't a religion.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

mODULAR mAN wrote: Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: I personally do not,
Thoughts?

I believe in the supernatural--namely demons and angels. I don't believe in ghosts. Out of curiosity, why do you believe in angels & demons, but not ghosts?

Not trying to argue...just wondering.

Theological reasons. There is nothing in Christian theology that indicates that ghosts can exist. Angels and demons are specifically mentioned. Understandable. I suppose we all are influenced by our religious beliefs, from Christian to Pagan to Atheist.

Atheism isn't a religion.

Lets not hijack the thread now shall we? :wink:

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 12039 Location: Zagreb

mODULAR mAN wrote: If they are Supernatural, then by deifnition they can have no effect on the natural world - they are 'above' Nature.

THat means you can't feel them, see them, hear them, or have any other interaction with them whatsoever, since your senses are Natural.

If you see one, that means there is a natural component to them - ergo, they are not Supernatural.

then explain to me what people see.

this is my third time asking, and so far none of you have answered.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6289

The Comrade wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: If they are Supernatural, then by deifnition they can have no effect on the natural world - they are 'above' Nature.

THat means you can't feel them, see them, hear them, or have any other interaction with them whatsoever, since your senses are Natural.

If you see one, that means there is a natural component to them - ergo, they are not Supernatural.

then explain to me what people see.

this is my third time asking, and so far none of you have answered.

the answer is--we can't
we weren't there with a fmri or pet scanner during the time that the person(s) claimed to see whatever they saw so we have no way of verifying anything

all we can say is that we cannot explain what these people saw
that is very different than saying that we CAN explain what these people saw--it was a ghost.

a lack of explanation is not an excuse to substitute in a baseless explanation

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 8780

mODULAR mAN wrote: Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: I personally do not,
Thoughts?

I believe in the supernatural--namely demons and angels. I don't believe in ghosts. Out of curiosity, why do you believe in angels & demons, but not ghosts?

Not trying to argue...just wondering.

Theological reasons. There is nothing in Christian theology that indicates that ghosts can exist. Angels and demons are specifically mentioned. Understandable. I suppose we all are influenced by our religious beliefs, from Christian to Pagan to Atheist.

Atheism isn't a religion. I didn't say it was. I said it is a religious belief.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15372 Location: Florida

mODULAR mAN wrote: Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: I personally do not,
Thoughts?

I believe in the supernatural--namely demons and angels. I don't believe in ghosts. Out of curiosity, why do you believe in angels & demons, but not ghosts?

Not trying to argue...just wondering.

Theological reasons. There is nothing in Christian theology that indicates that ghosts can exist. Angels and demons are specifically mentioned. Understandable. I suppose we all are influenced by our religious beliefs, from Christian to Pagan to Atheist.

Atheism isn't a religion.

It can be.

re·li·gion (rĭ-lĭj'ən) (American Heritage Dictionary)
n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Gilbert1908 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 5146 Location: Boston, MA

Can an atheist believe there are ghosts????

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Gilbert1908 wrote: Can an atheist believe there are ghosts????

Sure they can. Except instead of admitting that God exists they will justsay it has "something to do with energy" and "science will figure it out eventually".

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

The Comrade wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: If they are Supernatural, then by deifnition they can have no effect on the natural world - they are 'above' Nature.

THat means you can't feel them, see them, hear them, or have any other interaction with them whatsoever, since your senses are Natural.

If you see one, that means there is a natural component to them - ergo, they are not Supernatural.

then explain to me what people see.

this is my third time asking, and so far none of you have answered.

I answered, and gave you links.

Figments of the imagination, plays of light, etc.
Depends on the situtation.

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

The Comrade wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: If they are Supernatural, then by deifnition they can have no effect on the natural world - they are 'above' Nature.

THat means you can't feel them, see them, hear them, or have any other interaction with them whatsoever, since your senses are Natural.

If you see one, that means there is a natural component to them - ergo, they are not Supernatural.

then explain to me what people see.

this is my third time asking, and so far none of you have answered.

I answered, and gave you links.

Figments of the imagination, plays of light, etc.
Depends on the situtation.