Political Crossfire Forums

[Angelicus]

greeneye wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Has not the church, which you see, been in the role of dictating what is avaiable for believers to believe?

That's what the scriptures are for.

It's unfortunate that the church was institutionalized and became the gatekeeper to scripture which in turn has affected and formed the beliefs for billions of people throughout the centuries.

This power play has resulted in what I consider to be the greatest tragedies of all time and more Christian sects and confusion than one can imagine.

Somehow, I don't think it was suppose to be this way.

While that might have been true 500 years ago, today the "church" isn't that gatekeeper. The scriptures themselves are. They tell us exactly how too discern wether something should be considered as scripture or not.

[eynon]

Angelicus wrote: eynon wrote: greeneye wrote: Angelicus wrote: greeneye wrote: Angelicus wrote: I seriously don't hold any particular denominational affiliation.

In part because, well I don't see them in the scriptures. I see the church.

Do you see the church 'before' it was institutionalized or 'after' ?

I see Christ's or the Biblical meaning of the Church.

What is the Biblican meaning of the Church?

I always thought it was the collective body of believers...... :-|

Yep, no matter what their "denomination" may be.

ya...pretty much :-D

[greeneye]

Angelicus wrote: greeneye wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Has not the church, which you see, been in the role of dictating what is avaiable for believers to believe?

That's what the scriptures are for.

It's unfortunate that the church was institutionalized and became the gatekeeper to scripture which in turn has affected and formed the beliefs for billions of people throughout the centuries.

This power play has resulted in what I consider to be the greatest tragedies of all time and more Christian sects and confusion than one can imagine.

Somehow, I don't think it was suppose to be this way.

While that might have been true 500 years ago, today the "church" isn't that gatekeeper. The scriptures themselves are. They tell us exactly how too discern wether something should be considered as scripture or not.

That discernment, as important as it is, is based upon centuries of controlled and dictated beliefs by ill-conceived agendas.

Luther did not change much.

Do you really believe there would be so many Christian beliefs, interpretations and sects today if the gate keepers from day one had not made the decision 'on their own' and decided for all humanity to dictate what Jesus taught and what Jesus didn't teach and to push that forward?

What is not truth eventually does not survive nor pass the test of time... and the Church has seen this. Today we see the fastest growing segment of Christianity are in small sects (groups) growing by the hundreds/thousands all over the world of every shape, size and belief. There's lots of changes taking place in religion because we've moved into an age where people feel empowered and more responsible.... and the New Testement speaks to this quite clearly.

[LetsGetReal]

I don't know if this verse was posted earlier but I feel it is highly relevant.

Ephesians 2:1-10 wrote: 1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

By grace alone, through faith alone are we saved.