Political Crossfire Forums

[Pareve]

So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?

[The Comrade]

Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

[OnlyAmbrose]

The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:

-It is a grave matter
-The sinner is fully aware that what he/she is doing will shatter his relationship with God
-The sinner deliberately commits it

The grace of Christ, however, is given freely, and if the sinner is truly sorry and asks for God's forgiveness his grace will be restored. If said sinner has no remorse for the hurt he has given God and never makes any attempt to repair his relationship, then he has lost his grace, and cannot enter heaven.

In the end, however, only God can say. We can't pass judgement on who has damned themselves.

Hope this helps

-Ambrose

[Nathyn]

See the Wikipedia article on salvation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation

The Protestant view is just what you said: You have to believe in Jesus to be saved. The view is generally that belief is enough, but morality is still encouraged, a requirement for many denominations, and regardless, God still judges us for our actions. He might even save non-Christians, for all Christians know, because though God makes a promise to save all Christians, he could still benevolently decide to save us all.

Also, there's differing views regarding the salvation of Jews. Some say Jews aren't saved, others say they are or that they'll be raised from the dead during the Apocalypse and all Jews will convert to Christianity then.

[eynon]

OnlyAmbrose wrote: The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:

-It is a grave matter
-The sinner is fully aware that what he/she is doing will shatter his relationship with God
-The sinner deliberately commits it

The grace of Christ, however, is given freely, and if the sinner is truly sorry and asks for God's forgiveness his grace will be restored. If said sinner has no remorse for the hurt he has given God and never makes any attempt to repair his relationship, then he has lost his grace, and cannot enter heaven.

In the end, however, only God can say. We can't pass judgement on who has damned themselves.

Hope this helps

-Ambrose

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:

[cap'n queasy]

Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?

For a perspective that many Jews can easily understand check out this FAQ.

http://www.levitt.com/faqs.html#roots

Mainline Christianity today holds that Christendom replaced Israel in God's promises (replacement theology) but the Truth is, Y'shua is Moshiach. His testimony was directed to Israel, specifically. Christianity is Jewish, a fact the Gentile world doesn't care for very much. Even though they can still benefit.

Y'shua HaMashiach brought Israel the New Covenant the Prophet Yirmiyahu spoke of in Chapter 31, verse 30.

Hope that helps you understand. :-D

[cap'n queasy]

Nathyn wrote: See the Wikipedia article on salvation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation

The Protestant view is just what you said: You have to believe in Jesus to be saved. The view is generally that belief is enough, but morality is still encouraged, a requirement for many denominations, and regardless, God still judges us for our actions. He might even save non-Christians, for all Christians know, because though God makes a promise to save all Christians, he could still benevolently decide to save us all.

Also, there's differing views regarding the salvation of Jews. Some say Jews aren't saved, others say they are or that they'll be raised from the dead during the Apocalypse and all Jews will convert to Christianity then.

That is not correct, at all.

[Clarino]

John 3:16 sums it up nicely: God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


Put simply, Believe in God and his Son Jesus Christ and you get everlasting life. Try to follow Christ's teachings and you go to Heaven (possibly after attoning for your sins, nobody's perfect).

If you are not Christian you don't get to go to heaven. Now that's not to say that you believe in Christ or go to Hell. You only go to Hell if you're evil. If you are a good person but don't believe in Christ, then when you die that's the end of you. So, no punnishment for being Jewish, but no eternal life either. Sorry. :)

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: Now that's not to say that you believe in Christ or go to Hell.

Care to explain how you arrived at that conclusion?

[Clarino]

The Bible does not state that anyone who doesn't believe in Christ goes to Hell. It states that in order to get into Heaven you must repent of your sins and follow Christ. It also implies (in the passage I quoted) that those who do not, simply die.

[mojo]

eynon wrote: OnlyAmbrose wrote: The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:

-It is a grave matter
-The sinner is fully aware that what he/she is doing will shatter his relationship with God
-The sinner deliberately commits it

The grace of Christ, however, is given freely, and if the sinner is truly sorry and asks for God's forgiveness his grace will be restored. If said sinner has no remorse for the hurt he has given God and never makes any attempt to repair his relationship, then he has lost his grace, and cannot enter heaven.

In the end, however, only God can say. We can't pass judgement on who has damned themselves.

Hope this helps

-Ambrose

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:

no its venial :-D

[Nathyn]

cap'n queasy wrote: Nathyn wrote: See the Wikipedia article on salvation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation

The Protestant view is just what you said: You have to believe in Jesus to be saved. The view is generally that belief is enough, but morality is still encouraged, a requirement for many denominations, and regardless, God still judges us for our actions. He might even save non-Christians, for all Christians know, because though God makes a promise to save all Christians, he could still benevolently decide to save us all.

Also, there's differing views regarding the salvation of Jews. Some say Jews aren't saved, others say they are or that they'll be raised from the dead during the Apocalypse and all Jews will convert to Christianity then.

That is not correct, at all.
Cap'n Queasy, based upon past claims of yours, you're really in no position to argue about whether anything I say is correct or not.

[b.scheller]

Clarino wrote: The Bible does not state that anyone who doesn't believe in Christ goes to Hell. It states that in order to get into Heaven you must repent of your sins and follow Christ. It also implies (in the passage I quoted) that those who do not, simply die.

So what is the difference than? In order to go to heaven as you claim, you have to believe in Christ's methods, or teachings as being the most noble and moral. Even if you don't believe in Christ, that doesn't really make sense now does it. It's just like saying I have to follow George Washington even if I don't believe he existed or did the things the books say he did? So you have to believe in Christ, because if you do not, according to your statement you cannot go into heaven.

I'd rather just cease to exist, than be bothered with the paradoxical claims that if you dont believe in Christ but follow his methods you'll still get eternal salvation. What's the point in eternity anyway, it would be terribly boring and either heaven or hell, your still forced to live with your memories and tragedies you experienced in the "past-life".

Believe whatever you wish to believe, in the end it has little or no consequence whether your good or bad, whether you believe in God or not. We are all going to die anyway, and whatever makes you feel more comfortable about it than by all means.

[Angelicus]

Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?

Pareve it depends on wich convenant you are under.

[mODULAR mAN]

You'd think a real god would have made this little item of eternal salvation very clear.

It's laughable that even Xians can't agree on what "god" supposedly wanted from his creation.

Talk to 100 Xian's and you'll get 100 different answers to this question.

I won't offer my opinion, but the OP'er has asked an impossible question.
Calvinists believe you must accept Jesus into your heart, and everyone else goes to Hell.

Universalists believe God is so good and forgiving that EVERYONE goes to Heaven.

And then there are all the people in between.

[perdidochas]

Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?

I beleive that's God's job to decide.

[perdidochas]

The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Nope, you are incorrect on that. All in purgatory will go to heaven (purgatory is the cleansing process between earth and heaven). What you are thinking about is Limbo, which is a place neither heaven nor hell. It is primarily for those who existed before Jesus.

[Clarino]

b.scheller wrote: Clarino wrote: The Bible does not state that anyone who doesn't believe in Christ goes to Hell. It states that in order to get into Heaven you must repent of your sins and follow Christ. It also implies (in the passage I quoted) that those who do not, simply die.

So what is the difference than? In order to go to heaven as you claim, you have to believe in Christ's methods, or teachings as being the most noble and moral. Even if you don't believe in Christ, that doesn't really make sense now does it. It's just like saying I have to follow George Washington even if I don't believe he existed or did the things the books say he did? So you have to believe in Christ, because if you do not, according to your statement you cannot go into heaven.

I'd rather just cease to exist, than be bothered with the paradoxical claims that if you dont believe in Christ but follow his methods you'll still get eternal salvation. What's the point in eternity anyway, it would be terribly boring and either heaven or hell, your still forced to live with your memories and tragedies you experienced in the "past-life".

Believe whatever you wish to believe, in the end it has little or no consequence whether your good or bad, whether you believe in God or not. We are all going to die anyway, and whatever makes you feel more comfortable about it than by all means.

I think you're a little confused as to what I wrote. Or perhaps I was unclear.

Yes you have to believe in Christ and follow his teachings (methods? no, method of worship have changed a great deal in the past two mellenia) in order to get into Heaven.

Not doing so does not mean that you go to Hell though, just that you die.

It's really quite simple.

[TheTME]

OnlyAmbrose wrote: The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:


So I guess only around what like 4% of America has the grace of Jesus?

[The Comrade]

eynon wrote:

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:


it's "self abuse"