Political Crossfire Forums

[The Comrade]

perdidochas wrote:

Nope, you are incorrect on that. All in purgatory will go to heaven (purgatory is the cleansing process between earth and heaven). What you are thinking about is Limbo, which is a place neither heaven nor hell. It is primarily for those who existed before Jesus.


no i am absolutely 100% positive it's the righteous souls of purgatory.

[perdidochas]

The Comrade wrote: perdidochas wrote:

Nope, you are incorrect on that. All in purgatory will go to heaven (purgatory is the cleansing process between earth and heaven). What you are thinking about is Limbo, which is a place neither heaven nor hell. It is primarily for those who existed before Jesus.


no i am absolutely 100% positive it's the righteous souls of purgatory.

Well, the present Catholic church defines purgatory as the following:

(From the Catholic catechism):

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:


As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

[perdidochas]

TheTME wrote: OnlyAmbrose wrote: The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:


So I guess only around what like 4% of America has the grace of Jesus?
It is easy to ask and receive forgiveness for sins.

[Nathyn]

The Comrade wrote: eynon wrote:

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:


it's "self abuse"
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.

[Nathyn]

You know, it suddenly occurred to me how hilarious it would be to confess to a priest, "Father, I've masturbated a good several thousand times."

I also can't imagine what it must be like for a priest to have hot young women 'confess' to him their promiscuities.

[eynon]

Nathyn wrote: The Comrade wrote: eynon wrote:

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:


it's "self abuse"
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.

the holy is implied, but it does specifically describe semen as an "unclean emission"(Leviticus)........that doesn't sound too holy to me :wink:

[eynon]

Nathyn wrote: I also can't imagine what it must be like for a priest to have hot young women 'confess' to him their promiscuities.

I'd bet it leads to lots of seed spillage :lol:

[mODULAR mAN]

Nathyn wrote: You know, it suddenly occurred to me how hilarious it would be to confess to a priest, "Father, I've masturbated a good several thousand times."

I also can't imagine what it must be like for a priest to have hot young women 'confess' to him their promiscuities.

Why, because they couldn't care less, unless that hot young woman is a young boy? :lol:

[The Comrade]

Nathyn wrote:
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.


i have a catholic workbook that says otherwise.



there was an entire chapter on it, and it's considered self abuse by the vatican.

[Nathyn]

eynon wrote: Nathyn wrote: The Comrade wrote: eynon wrote:

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:


it's "self abuse"
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.

the holy is implied, but it does specifically describe semen as an "unclean emission"(Leviticus)........that doesn't sound too holy to me :wink:
Holy is a bad word to use, yeah. I could say "precious," but again, yeah.. sounds weird, as if you're supposed to hoard it. I frankly think the whole Abrahamic obsession with conservation of sperm to be bizarre.

The Comrade wrote: Nathyn wrote:
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.


i have a catholic workbook that says otherwise.



there was an entire chapter on it, and it's considered self abuse by the vatican.
Out of curiousity, what's their scriptural justification? I can't think of any passage where it would be described as "abuse." In fact, masturbation isn't even mentioned at all. Their view on masturbation is derived from the Abrahamic view that intentionally wasting sperm is sinful. Their claims about "self-abuse," are probably modern pseudoscientific creations in order to justify such a strange Abrahamic doctrine.

[The Comrade]

Nathyn wrote:
Out of curiousity, what's their scriptural justification? I can't think of any passage where it would be described as "abuse." In fact, masturbation isn't even mentioned at all. Their view on masturbation is derived from the Abrahamic view that intentionally wasting sperm is sinful. Their claims about "self-abuse," are probably modern pseudoscientific creations in order to justify such a strange Abrahamic doctrine.

never said it was in the scriptures, just stated the stance of the Vatican.

[xsuite]

mojo wrote: eynon wrote: OnlyAmbrose wrote: The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:

-It is a grave matter
-The sinner is fully aware that what he/she is doing will shatter his relationship with God
-The sinner deliberately commits it

The grace of Christ, however, is given freely, and if the sinner is truly sorry and asks for God's forgiveness his grace will be restored. If said sinner has no remorse for the hurt he has given God and never makes any attempt to repair his relationship, then he has lost his grace, and cannot enter heaven.

In the end, however, only God can say. We can't pass judgement on who has damned themselves.

Hope this helps

-Ambrose

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:

no its venial :-D
Yeha, there is no way its a mortal sin, if so, heaven has way to many women (not that thats a bad thing) but 99.2% of men would be damned.
Also neither are gays damned. YOU HEARD ME!!!! GAY IS NOT A SIN. it was but is no longer. like shrimp, or wearing polyblend clothes, or pork, or getting piercings or tattoos.

[eynon]

Nathyn wrote: eynon wrote: Nathyn wrote: The Comrade wrote: eynon wrote:

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:


it's "self abuse"
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.

the holy is implied, but it does specifically describe semen as an "unclean emission"(Leviticus)........that doesn't sound too holy to me :wink:
Holy is a bad word to use, yeah. I could say "precious," but again, yeah.. sounds weird, as if you're supposed to hoard it. I frankly think the whole Abrahamic obsession with conservation of sperm to be bizarre.

The Comrade wrote: Nathyn wrote:
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.


i have a catholic workbook that says otherwise.



there was an entire chapter on it, and it's considered self abuse by the vatican.
Out of curiousity, what's their scriptural justification? I can't think of any passage where it would be described as "abuse." In fact, masturbation isn't even mentioned at all. Their view on masturbation is derived from the Abrahamic view that intentionally wasting sperm is sinful. Their claims about "self-abuse," are probably modern pseudoscientific creations in order to justify such a strange Abrahamic doctrine.

it is mentioned in scripture, Levitcus 15:16........it's not considered a big deal, it's mentioned along with things like a woman's period. It more or less says in lamens terms "no biggie, just wash up afterwards".

[Nathyn]

xsuite wrote: mojo wrote: eynon wrote: OnlyAmbrose wrote: The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:

-It is a grave matter
-The sinner is fully aware that what he/she is doing will shatter his relationship with God
-The sinner deliberately commits it

The grace of Christ, however, is given freely, and if the sinner is truly sorry and asks for God's forgiveness his grace will be restored. If said sinner has no remorse for the hurt he has given God and never makes any attempt to repair his relationship, then he has lost his grace, and cannot enter heaven.

In the end, however, only God can say. We can't pass judgement on who has damned themselves.

Hope this helps

-Ambrose

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:

no its venial :-D
Yeha, there is no way its a mortal sin, if so, heaven has way to many women (not that thats a bad thing) but 99.2% of men would be damned.
Also neither are gays damned. YOU HEARD ME!!!! GAY IS NOT A SIN. it was but is no longer. like shrimp, or wearing polyblend clothes, or pork, or getting piercings or tattoos.
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, adultery, masturbation, and homosexuality are mortal sins:

http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock94.htm
Quote: ...acts such as adultery, homosexuality, and masturbation, which the Church has always regarded as mortal sins...

eynon wrote: Nathyn wrote: eynon wrote: Nathyn wrote: The Comrade wrote: eynon wrote:

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:


it's "self abuse"
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.

the holy is implied, but it does specifically describe semen as an "unclean emission"(Leviticus)........that doesn't sound too holy to me :wink:
Holy is a bad word to use, yeah. I could say "precious," but again, yeah.. sounds weird, as if you're supposed to hoard it. I frankly think the whole Abrahamic obsession with conservation of sperm to be bizarre.

The Comrade wrote: Nathyn wrote:
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.


i have a catholic workbook that says otherwise.



there was an entire chapter on it, and it's considered self abuse by the vatican.
Out of curiousity, what's their scriptural justification? I can't think of any passage where it would be described as "abuse." In fact, masturbation isn't even mentioned at all. Their view on masturbation is derived from the Abrahamic view that intentionally wasting sperm is sinful. Their claims about "self-abuse," are probably modern pseudoscientific creations in order to justify such a strange Abrahamic doctrine.

it is mentioned in scripture, Levitcus 15:16........it's not considered a big deal, it's mentioned along with things like a woman's period. It more or less says in lamens terms "no biggie, just wash up afterwards".
That just mentions that semen is "unclean," not that it's abusive to masturbate.

Anyway, I looked into it and the only actual passage involving masturbation is Genesis 38:9. And it's not even masturbation. In Jewish custom at that time, if your brother died, you had to marry his wife, if he had one. Plus, if he had no kids, you'd have to have kids with her, so as to spread his seed. Even though, biologically, we now know the kid would still be yours, spiritually, the kid would be his. So, in Genesis 38, Onan's brother Er dies. Onan marries his brother's wife and (probably having sex with her) he ejaculates on the ground to avoid getting her pregnant, because he doesn't want to have a kid that isn't technically his. And God didn't like that.

It's from that passage that taboos against masturbation were derived.

Also, sorry -- regarding taboos against wasting semen -- yeah, that's probably rooted in Abrahamic culture, but it isn't to be found in scripture. I base that claim upon Jewish beliefs regarding masturbation, that the reason it's so bad is because it "wastes" semen.

[greeneye]

Pareve wrote: Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?

my two cents ... man should make his peace with God while on earth... hopefully before he's on his death bed.

[xsuite]

Nathyn wrote: xsuite wrote: mojo wrote: eynon wrote: OnlyAmbrose wrote: The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:

-It is a grave matter
-The sinner is fully aware that what he/she is doing will shatter his relationship with God
-The sinner deliberately commits it

The grace of Christ, however, is given freely, and if the sinner is truly sorry and asks for God's forgiveness his grace will be restored. If said sinner has no remorse for the hurt he has given God and never makes any attempt to repair his relationship, then he has lost his grace, and cannot enter heaven.

In the end, however, only God can say. We can't pass judgement on who has damned themselves.

Hope this helps

-Ambrose

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:

no its venial :-D
Yeha, there is no way its a mortal sin, if so, heaven has way to many women (not that thats a bad thing) but 99.2% of men would be damned.
Also neither are gays damned. YOU HEARD ME!!!! GAY IS NOT A SIN. it was but is no longer. like shrimp, or wearing polyblend clothes, or pork, or getting piercings or tattoos.
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, adultery, masturbation, and homosexuality are mortal sins:

http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock94.htm
Quote: ...acts such as adultery, homosexuality, and masturbation, which the Church has always regarded as mortal sins...

eynon wrote: Nathyn wrote: eynon wrote: Nathyn wrote: The Comrade wrote: eynon wrote:

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:


it's "self abuse"
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.

the holy is implied, but it does specifically describe semen as an "unclean emission"(Leviticus)........that doesn't sound too holy to me :wink:
Holy is a bad word to use, yeah. I could say "precious," but again, yeah.. sounds weird, as if you're supposed to hoard it. I frankly think the whole Abrahamic obsession with conservation of sperm to be bizarre.

The Comrade wrote: Nathyn wrote:
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.


i have a catholic workbook that says otherwise.



there was an entire chapter on it, and it's considered self abuse by the vatican.
Out of curiousity, what's their scriptural justification? I can't think of any passage where it would be described as "abuse." In fact, masturbation isn't even mentioned at all. Their view on masturbation is derived from the Abrahamic view that intentionally wasting sperm is sinful. Their claims about "self-abuse," are probably modern pseudoscientific creations in order to justify such a strange Abrahamic doctrine.

it is mentioned in scripture, Levitcus 15:16........it's not considered a big deal, it's mentioned along with things like a woman's period. It more or less says in lamens terms "no biggie, just wash up afterwards".
That just mentions that semen is "unclean," not that it's abusive to masturbate.

Anyway, I looked into it and the only actual passage involving masturbation is Genesis 38:9. And it's not even masturbation. In Jewish custom at that time, if your brother died, you had to marry his wife, if he had one. Plus, if he had no kids, you'd have to have kids with her, so as to spread his seed. Even though, biologically, we now know the kid would still be yours, spiritually, the kid would be his. So, in Genesis 38, Onan's brother Er dies. Onan marries his brother's wife and (probably having sex with her) he ejaculates on the ground to avoid getting her pregnant, because he doesn't want to have a kid that isn't technically his. And God didn't like that.

It's from that passage that taboos against masturbation were derived.

Also, sorry -- regarding taboos against wasting semen -- yeah, that's probably rooted in Abrahamic culture, but it isn't to be found in scripture. I base that claim upon Jewish beliefs regarding masturbation, that the reason it's so bad is because it "wastes" semen.
Well its a good thing that im not catholic. See ya guys in hell!!

[Pareve]

Clarino wrote: John 3:16 sums it up nicely: God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


Put simply, Believe in God and his Son Jesus Christ and you get everlasting life. Try to follow Christ's teachings and you go to Heaven (possibly after attoning for your sins, nobody's perfect).

If you are not Christian you don't get to go to heaven. Now that's not to say that you believe in Christ or go to Hell. You only go to Hell if you're evil. If you are a good person but don't believe in Christ, then when you die that's the end of you. So, no punnishment for being Jewish, but no eternal life either. Sorry. :)

That's odd, because the absolute worst punishment for the most evil in Judaism is that they cease to be. It is an interesting difference of opinion on what the most terrible thing is.

Oh... A note... This isn't directed at the poster I just quoted, but I am really not here to get converted. At all. I am quite happy being Jewish, and don't find Christianity personally appealing in the slightest. I just like learning about other religions, and I admittedly don't know as much as I would like to about the technicalities of Christianity.

Oh, and I would also like to ask that people refrain from referring to Jesus as "Yoshua" or calling him "Moshiach" because from my perspective, you're just being obnoxious. I know and you know you wouldn't talk about Jesus that way if you weren't talking to a Jew, and frankly, it's annoying. Making a ham sandwich with matzo instead of bread doesn't make it kosher. I am sorry if I was just rude, because I have a sincere desire to learn about Christianity. I just don't want to be one.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: because I have a sincere desire to learn about Christianity. I just don't want to be one.

Then the first thing you have to learn is that Y'shua is a Jew and an Israelite, and that He is Moshiach. And that He brought the B'rit Hadashah, the Besorat HaMashiach.

Because that is Christianity.

[cap'n queasy]

Nathyn wrote: xsuite wrote: mojo wrote: eynon wrote: OnlyAmbrose wrote: The Comrade wrote: Pareve wrote: So... I'm Jewish, and we don't really have a concept of heaven and hell, per se. I'm curious on what Christians in this board think about who goes to heaven. Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven, or that good people who aren't Christians get to go too?


the catholic church proclaims anyone that is a good human being will go to heaven. and even before this, middle ages for example, there were "the righteous souls of purgatory". basically people who weren't catholic, but were good people over all, went to purgatory rather then hell. one very famous example of this is Saladin.

Sort of. The Catholic Church teaches that to get to heaven you must posess within you the grace of Jesus Christ. You lose the grace of Jesus by committing mortal sin, which is essentially a REALLY bad sin, i.e. murder, rape, masturbation, use of birth control, etc etc. A mortal sin must fulfill the following conditions:

-It is a grave matter
-The sinner is fully aware that what he/she is doing will shatter his relationship with God
-The sinner deliberately commits it

The grace of Christ, however, is given freely, and if the sinner is truly sorry and asks for God's forgiveness his grace will be restored. If said sinner has no remorse for the hurt he has given God and never makes any attempt to repair his relationship, then he has lost his grace, and cannot enter heaven.

In the end, however, only God can say. We can't pass judgement on who has damned themselves.

Hope this helps

-Ambrose

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:

no its venial :-D
Yeha, there is no way its a mortal sin, if so, heaven has way to many women (not that thats a bad thing) but 99.2% of men would be damned.
Also neither are gays damned. YOU HEARD ME!!!! GAY IS NOT A SIN. it was but is no longer. like shrimp, or wearing polyblend clothes, or pork, or getting piercings or tattoos.
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, adultery, masturbation, and homosexuality are mortal sins:

http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock94.htm
Quote: ...acts such as adultery, homosexuality, and masturbation, which the Church has always regarded as mortal sins...

eynon wrote: Nathyn wrote: eynon wrote: Nathyn wrote: The Comrade wrote: eynon wrote:

wanking is a motal sin? :lol:


it's "self abuse"
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.

the holy is implied, but it does specifically describe semen as an "unclean emission"(Leviticus)........that doesn't sound too holy to me :wink:
Holy is a bad word to use, yeah. I could say "precious," but again, yeah.. sounds weird, as if you're supposed to hoard it. I frankly think the whole Abrahamic obsession with conservation of sperm to be bizarre.

The Comrade wrote: Nathyn wrote:
It's not that it's abuse. The Bible makes it clear that one's "seed" is sort of holy because it has the ability to create life. Not just masturbating, but conception (even in the form of pulling out early) is considered sinful for... bah... it isn't coherent at all, but basically, it's just bad to waste sperm. God said so, and so, that's how it is, even if it makes no sense, whatsoever.


i have a catholic workbook that says otherwise.



there was an entire chapter on it, and it's considered self abuse by the vatican.
Out of curiousity, what's their scriptural justification? I can't think of any passage where it would be described as "abuse." In fact, masturbation isn't even mentioned at all. Their view on masturbation is derived from the Abrahamic view that intentionally wasting sperm is sinful. Their claims about "self-abuse," are probably modern pseudoscientific creations in order to justify such a strange Abrahamic doctrine.

it is mentioned in scripture, Levitcus 15:16........it's not considered a big deal, it's mentioned along with things like a woman's period. It more or less says in lamens terms "no biggie, just wash up afterwards".
That just mentions that semen is "unclean," not that it's abusive to masturbate.

Anyway, I looked into it and the only actual passage involving masturbation is Genesis 38:9. And it's not even masturbation. In Jewish custom at that time, if your brother died, you had to marry his wife, if he had one. Plus, if he had no kids, you'd have to have kids with her, so as to spread his seed. Even though, biologically, we now know the kid would still be yours, spiritually, the kid would be his. So, in Genesis 38, Onan's brother Er dies. Onan marries his brother's wife and (probably having sex with her) he ejaculates on the ground to avoid getting her pregnant, because he doesn't want to have a kid that isn't technically his. And God didn't like that.

It's from that passage that taboos against masturbation were derived.

Also, sorry -- regarding taboos against wasting semen -- yeah, that's probably rooted in Abrahamic culture, but it isn't to be found in scripture. I base that claim upon Jewish beliefs regarding masturbation, that the reason it's so bad is because it "wastes" semen.

The reasoning behind it all is that Onan interrupted the Messianic line, not that he "wasted" semen.

[ieatfood]

Uh, its pretty common knowledge--Jews will goto hell.

http://onegoodmovemedia.org/movies/njenson/borat.mov