Political Crossfire Forums

eynon · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject:

CCD wrote: So, our government ought to pass laws that are Christian in nature?

no.....well at least not overtly and specifically Christian in nature, many of our nicer fluffier laws stem from a our Christian cultural background (cruel and unusual, wall between church and state, etc), and these are good things. I think I nice Christian spirit is a good thing to have behind a set of laws(think Gospels and James), but in terms of specifics our laws should be secular in nature.

all that said, this thread isn't about making Christian laws, it's about laws the poster believes hinder his ability to act like a Christian, in this case by helping people. No-one is calling for more laws in this thread, they're calling for fewer. :)

ChuckBerry · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 2220 Location: Lafayette, LA

Well, the OP attacked some laws as being un-Christian. Must we use a Christianity test prior to passing a law? De facto creating Christian laws?

eynon · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject:

CCD wrote: Well, the OP attacked some laws as being un-Christian. Must we use a Christianity test prior to passing a law? De facto creating Christian laws?

em........Christians may want to, and Christians may want to strike down un-christian laws.

Whitefields · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Being Poor is NOT a Crime

RLF wrote: In Las Vegas, bringing food to the park and handing it out to the
homeless is punishable by six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.

In Dallas, only approved churches, charities and individuals can serve
the homeless only in approved locations. If not approved, you so much
as offer a biscuit to a hungry person, you are subject to fines up to
$2,000.

Now in Redding if you are one of the more than 2,000 homeless men,
women, and children in Shasta County caught by a small campfire trying
to keep warm within Redding's city limits, you can receive up to six
months in jail, and a $1,000 fine.

Many more Cities are doing the same.......

God, from one end of the Bible to the other, expresses his desire for
us to care, uphold and provide for the poor. Is it God's will that
poverty should be a crime? Is it not written, "He who oppresses the
poor, reproaches His Maker?" Didn't Jesus say, "Assuredly, I say to
you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren,
you did it to me?"

Mental illness does not respond to increased fines and jail time. Home-
lessness does not respond to tearing down their temporary shelters,
throwing away their possessions, and driving them out of town. A lack
of hope does not respond to a lack of love.

We must constructively address the plight of the homeless, and its
multifaceted causes,
before its to late.......

http://reddingloavesandfishes.com/

Those laws are rediculous. Fined for helping people?

eynon · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Being Poor is NOT a Crime

Whitefields wrote: RLF wrote: In Las Vegas, bringing food to the park and handing it out to the
homeless is punishable by six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.

In Dallas, only approved churches, charities and individuals can serve
the homeless only in approved locations. If not approved, you so much
as offer a biscuit to a hungry person, you are subject to fines up to
$2,000.

Now in Redding if you are one of the more than 2,000 homeless men,
women, and children in Shasta County caught by a small campfire trying
to keep warm within Redding's city limits, you can receive up to six
months in jail, and a $1,000 fine.

Many more Cities are doing the same.......

God, from one end of the Bible to the other, expresses his desire for
us to care, uphold and provide for the poor. Is it God's will that
poverty should be a crime? Is it not written, "He who oppresses the
poor, reproaches His Maker?" Didn't Jesus say, "Assuredly, I say to
you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren,
you did it to me?"

Mental illness does not respond to increased fines and jail time. Home-
lessness does not respond to tearing down their temporary shelters,
throwing away their possessions, and driving them out of town. A lack
of hope does not respond to a lack of love.

We must constructively address the plight of the homeless, and its
multifaceted causes,
before its to late.......

http://reddingloavesandfishes.com/

Those laws are rediculous. Fined for helping people?

HERE,HERE! :tu:

ChuckBerry · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 2220 Location: Lafayette, LA

"Helping people" may only be encouraging vagrancy. A handout on the street generally does not help, homeless people ought to be encouraged to seek out shelters and soup kitchens and such so they can have the opportunity to see someone who might be able to help them get started back on a path to self-sufficiency, and thus self-esteem. For those with mental illnesses this is even more important; your spare change will not fix the mental problems they have, and only going to a place where they might have an opportunity to get evaluated and helped will cause lasting change.

Todd D. · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject:

Quote: I don't think they could forbid that. Since you are doing it on your front lawn which is your property and not government property.
There are plenty of things that you can't do on your private property. Change "giving sandwiches to the homeless" to "smoke Marijuana" and you can clearly see that the government can (and does) regulate such activity.

Todd D. · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject:

CCD wrote: "Helping people" may only be encouraging vagrancy. A handout on the street generally does not help, homeless people ought to be encouraged to seek out shelters and soup kitchens and such so they can have the opportunity to see someone who might be able to help them get started back on a path to self-sufficiency, and thus self-esteem. For those with mental illnesses this is even more important; your spare change will not fix the mental problems they have, and only going to a place where they might have an opportunity to get evaluated and helped will cause lasting change.
What does that matter? I should be able to give a homeless person a butterfly kife if he wanted it and I was willing to give it to him. The beneficial nature of the transaction is irrelvent to the property rights being discussed here.

eynon · Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:53 am Post subject:

CCD wrote: "Helping people" may only be encouraging vagrancy. A handout on the street generally does not help, homeless people ought to be encouraged to seek out shelters and soup kitchens and such so they can have the opportunity to see someone who might be able to help them get started back on a path to self-sufficiency, and thus self-esteem. For those with mental illnesses this is even more important; your spare change will not fix the mental problems they have, and only going to a place where they might have an opportunity to get evaluated and helped will cause lasting change.

that's right....pass the buck :wink:

ideal · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 213 Location: Wyoming

As opposed as I am to laws which prevent people from living there lives because some classist **** consider those lives unsavory, if I were currently a homeless man in Redding, I'd likely start a campfire in front of the police station just for the six months in a warm bed. I've had to sleep on the street during the summer. Not going for that when the temperature drops.

eynon · Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject:

ideal wrote: As opposed as I am to laws which prevent people from living there lives because some classist ***holes consider those lives unsavory, if I were currently a homeless man in Redding, I'd likely start a campfire in front of the police station just for the six months in a warm bed. I've had to sleep on the street during the summer. Not going for that when the temperature drops.

most homeless are only without a roof for a short period of time.....then there are people who actually choose to be homeless, believe it or not. They prefer the freedom of living in the streets, and there are plenty of services(at least where I live) to help these people out.

Course it never hurts to help more......plus there are plenty of non-homeless that need help.

Babylon_Horuv · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 2087

Todd D. wrote: Quote: I don't think they could forbid that. Since you are doing it on your front lawn which is your property and not government property.
There are plenty of things that you can't do on your private property. Change "giving sandwiches to the homeless" to "smoke Marijuana" and you can clearly see that the government can (and does) regulate such activity.

The difference is that smoking marijuana is illegal period, giving people food is not.

Babylon_Horuv · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 2087

ideal wrote: As opposed as I am to laws which prevent people from living there lives because some classist ***holes consider those lives unsavory, if I were currently a homeless man in Redding, I'd likely start a campfire in front of the police station just for the six months in a warm bed. I've had to sleep on the street during the summer. Not going for that when the temperature drops.

I agree, they are turning the jails into shelters, which seems kind of foolish to me

ChuckBerry · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 2220 Location: Lafayette, LA

eynon wrote: CCD wrote: "Helping people" may only be encouraging vagrancy. A handout on the street generally does not help, homeless people ought to be encouraged to seek out shelters and soup kitchens and such so they can have the opportunity to see someone who might be able to help them get started back on a path to self-sufficiency, and thus self-esteem. For those with mental illnesses this is even more important; your spare change will not fix the mental problems they have, and only going to a place where they might have an opportunity to get evaluated and helped will cause lasting change.

that's right....pass the buck :wink:

that's right....miss the point :roll:

eynon · Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject:

CCD wrote: eynon wrote: CCD wrote: "Helping people" may only be encouraging vagrancy. A handout on the street generally does not help, homeless people ought to be encouraged to seek out shelters and soup kitchens and such so they can have the opportunity to see someone who might be able to help them get started back on a path to self-sufficiency, and thus self-esteem. For those with mental illnesses this is even more important; your spare change will not fix the mental problems they have, and only going to a place where they might have an opportunity to get evaluated and helped will cause lasting change.

that's right....pass the buck :wink:

that's right....miss the point :roll:

homeless people still seek services, even if you do give them a sandwich or dollar every once in awhile........what you're preaching is mearly an excuse for apathy and non-action.