Political Crossfire Forums

[Requiem Of Rose]

I attened school in america, and before the comment start.. My english skills arnt paticularly impressive... Means very little I am better at math,sicence and reading than I am at writing... ( there is little logical about english grammar)

anyways... I been in the u.s since i was 5 and I born with dual citizenship.

[[Bible]Monkey]

Requiem Of Rose wrote: I will start this out by Introducing myself. I am currently 18 as of 10 minutes of posting this.....

...All kids have a discontent with authority ....

...an attitude of nature is a form of brainwashing and leads to pessimistic outlooks of life in all aspects including government.

well, This is about it for My first post.

All children should be set to work at hard labour in the sugar beet fields and coal mines of the nation. Their ipods and game-boys should be smashed, and as a reward for meeting the production quota, they should receive one pair of wooden shoes per year.

They should be whipped every night , and as a reward for saying "thank you" after the whipping, they should be given one bowl of tepid gruel for their once-a-day meal, in order that they can cry themselves to sleep in their vermin-infested straw beds with some food in their belly, to ensure they survive the night.

You have to meet them halfway, at least-They should be allowed to wear whatever color of grain sack they like for clothing , though.

[blockhead]

Requiem Of Rose wrote: I attened school in america, and before the comment start.. My english skills arnt paticularly impressive... Means very little I am better at math,sicence and reading than I am at writing... ( there is little logical about english grammar)

anyways... I been in the u.s since i was 5 and I born with dual citizenship.

Is your argument that the US educational system failed you because they wouldn't let you wear a pentagram or a t-shirt with a logo on it?

[Zombie3785]

I wore all kinds of shirts during school. Slayer shirts, shirts that says "school s*cks," shirts with burning crosses and all that. Rarely did someone ever say anything about it. You just went to a bad school.

[Nathyn]

Requiem Of Rose wrote: I attened school in america, and before the comment start.. My english skills arnt paticularly impressive... Means very little I am better at math,sicence and reading than I am at writing... ( there is little logical about english grammar)

anyways... I been in the u.s since i was 5 and I born with dual citizenship.
Requiem, being that you're Japanese, I have to say: Look at your heritage.

I think you have it backwards. There isn't lack of individuality in American schools. There is too much. Students are given too much freedom and are allowed to fail without facing any consequences.

In Japanese schools, everyone wears uniforms and they're very strict, and very disciplined. And Japan has a VERY good educational system.

[callous]

[quote="foadi"] Requiem Of Rose wrote:

As for the rest of your post, here's a suggestion: educate yourself.

Reposted in the hope that the OP reads it and takes it to heart. This is a ghastly step in the wrong idealistic direction.

[The Russian]

On principal, I dont like to agree with right wing ideology, but one thing I would have to give to them... it is better if there were enforced school uniforms and greater consequences to acts like swearing at teachers, bullying other students, or physicaly harming anyone...

I think the nature of the social system at large where its acceptable to exploit individuals socialy and economicaly and ironicly popularised at the same time through pop-culture (ghetto philosophy)... is the root of the excessive bullying in the school system now-a-days. Children seeking to exploit children for popularity or acceptance or for mere self-esteem. I allso believe its an underlying cause to school shootings, in line with making it legal to own easily concealable weapons. But thats a topic for another forum section.

[Lumina]

Goodness, let's all stop blaming "educational systems" and take personal responsibility for our educations. LOL, like none of us was told about dictionaries and library resources. Like none of us had access to a TV.

I mean, please.

[letfreedomring]

Requiem Of Rose wrote: Reasonable instences.. where is it reasonable to be able say that kids cannot where any logoed shirts... or cannot where sympols that hint to their faith regardless of what it is... Kids arnt adults... but children are still U.S citizens... and even in your examples teachers being the employees them selfs... have the freedom of speach in text of every day use...students can be pushed around for what ever the teachers feal like doing to push them around... and so your depends on the mood of a fat and under paid lady that more than often will preach her personal views into lessons... But you cannot respond with your views nor can you do any thing to ignore them or its deemed as disrepectful...

"kids are not adults" hold no weight to "kids are still american citizens" and should atleast be entitled to the basics of rights. when opposed by such terrany in any event.

Logo T-shirts like "f**k you"? or some suggestive meaning pictures or words? School is a place for education, not a place for such nonsense. The only failure I've seen in the school system is that they are allowed the kids too much freedom. I supposed you haven't ever spent time in a Japanese school have you? All kids wear the same kind of clothes don't they? I think it's fairly reasonable that certain kind of clothes are restricted, and sometimes it's for your own good and to protect you. If you ever lived in a gang ridden area, wearing a T-shirt with a logo can get you killed depending on the logo that is there.

I don't think there's a failure in the school system as much as a failure in the parents and to some degree, the kids. If you aren't willing to learn, then the teachers won't be willing to teach. There's not much they can do can they? be honest and tell me how many of your classmates talk in class while the teacher is giving a lecture? how many of them are text messaging each others or otherwise preoccupied with daydreaming? You shouldn't worry so much as your "freedom of speech" as much as setting up for getting yourself a position in life where you might be able to make a difference.

[Otacon]

Students who actually care about their education will do well in the public school system. I know people who have. It all depends on how much effort a student is willing to give. If they don't care if they pass or not, their grades are going to be low, they won't do well on national tests, and it hurts America's image. Their needs to be punishment for not passing national tests. An ideal punishment would be retaining a student. If a kid doesn't pass these tests, they simply get to go on to the next grade. If they were held back, perhaps we would see a little more effort on their part.

Also, I believe that we should allow any student in 9-12 to drop out at any time. Some students won't finish high school or even get a GED, so why should we require them to attend school until they are about 17?

[perdidochas]

Requiem Of Rose wrote: I will start this out by Introducing myself. I am currently 18 as of 10 minutes of posting this. ( typically to late to vote for the November 7th elections). The story begins with a very discontent and defiant almost straight A ( and very lazy) student as far back as Middle school.

All kids have a discontent with authority and there where few who I truly respected how ever I was always the brightest in the room and fastest to turn in assignments ( and leisurely turned in home work while still Aceing tests)... The accounts is every thing wrong with a small government that does not even honor policies of the larger government for the most part.

In school students are striped of their right to freedom of speech and religion.. recently In Florida several high schools have striped the right to wear religious symbols such as Crosses and pentagrams.

Requiem Of Rose wrote: Clearly these things violate constitutional rights guaranteed to U.S citizens Upon the first breathe you draw as a legal citizen. any opposition or comments discontent with these arrangements are promptly done away with.. threatened by administrative action on false pretences to the actual authority bestowed to them as administrators.

The leads of this is control over information coming down into youth groups. Primarily I have noticed the conservative voice amongst teacher faculty in the regions do not last long. By observations I have self concluded I am not alone in having been oppressed in this case...

critically important is the fact that they are training a generation to be content with being opressed by authority and its effectiveness is shown by students gaining the "oh well, what can I anyways" attitude. It should be necessary for me to point out where this is harmful to society... an attitude of nature is a form of brainwashing and leads to pessimistic outlooks of life in all aspects including government.

well, This is about it for My first post.

A few things: 1) Children (especially students) do not have the same almost unlimited freedom of speech that adults have. This has been held by Supreme Court precedents throughout the years. If religious clothing causes a disruption, it can be banned. While I don't know the particulars about your claim that crosses and pentagrams are being banned, I would imagine that they are due to being related to certain gangs. If a two foot long cross (as I read about later in this thread) causes disruption, it can be restricted from school.
2) all generations (at least since the 1960s) think the schools brainwashed them. The schools didn't, and I would argue that people today are more individualistic and less "brainwashed" than before.

[perdidochas]

Requiem Of Rose wrote: No It would not be discrimante.. Its constentunional... You are allowed to wear a cross or a pentragram in public... you are entitled to say merry christmas... if your relgion says you should wear a 2foot long gold cross around your neck a Police officer cannot stop you so why can a teacher?

If said two foot long cross causes a disruption, it can be banned.

Requiem Of Rose wrote: why in public schools are we not granted the public rights suposably garanteed by the Consitution of the United states?

Because you are minors, and the school has the power of en loco parentis.

[perdidochas]

Requiem Of Rose wrote: I Got My GED March 21, 2004. I am now enrolled in a Poltical science Major. Any further questions?....

Then why not start by researching the issues involved--i.e. the limitations of constitutional rights of public school students. It's easily found educational law. You can start with the ACLU website.

Also, no offense, but I view someone with a GED as a loser--it indicates that you don't have the follow through or work ethic to get a high school diploma (I wouldn't brag about it). In my state, FL, the GED is so much simpler than the graduation test, so that people who fail the grad test just go ahead and take the GED instead.

Requiem Of Rose wrote: I am Not content to allow a system riddled with failures and increasingly failing resaults on the National scale. to remain a Failing system. I am not content to let it reach a Point where the next generations are surpressed and brain washed by Teacher's personal views and administrators thinking they acomplished somethign in their life because they made it to a piss-ad office. But they get a comfertable chair.

With your low level of argument and grammar, you should go back to high school.

Requiem Of Rose wrote: =) sorry But I am not one that is content to allow Failures to repeat them selfs and go un questioned and un noticed.

Well, research and learn a bit more before you pontificate on things you have little knowledge about.

[perdidochas]

[Bible]Monkey wrote: Requiem Of Rose wrote: I will start this out by Introducing myself. I am currently 18 as of 10 minutes of posting this.....

...All kids have a discontent with authority ....

...an attitude of nature is a form of brainwashing and leads to pessimistic outlooks of life in all aspects including government.

well, This is about it for My first post.

All children should be set to work at hard labour in the sugar beet fields and coal mines of the nation. Their ipods and game-boys should be smashed, and as a reward for meeting the production quota, they should receive one pair of wooden shoes per year.

They should be whipped every night , and as a reward for saying "thank you" after the whipping, they should be given one bowl of tepid gruel for their once-a-day meal, in order that they can cry themselves to sleep in their vermin-infested straw beds with some food in their belly, to ensure they survive the night.

You have to meet them halfway, at least-They should be allowed to wear whatever color of grain sack they like for clothing , though.

Sounds like a good idea to me. :twisted:

[VBach37]

The public school system is a tit-for-tat system. If you are intelligent and/or put in appropriate effort, you will do well. If you're an idiot or too lazy, you can (and should) fail. It is not the responsibility of the schools to pander to every single little bratt who can't be bothered to put in the effort to succeed.

[TwinkieDP]

perdidochas wrote: [Bible]Monkey wrote: Requiem Of Rose wrote: I will start this out by Introducing myself. I am currently 18 as of 10 minutes of posting this.....

...All kids have a discontent with authority ....

...an attitude of nature is a form of brainwashing and leads to pessimistic outlooks of life in all aspects including government.

well, This is about it for My first post.

All children should be set to work at hard labour in the sugar beet fields and coal mines of the nation. Their ipods and game-boys should be smashed, and as a reward for meeting the production quota, they should receive one pair of wooden shoes per year.

They should be whipped every night , and as a reward for saying "thank you" after the whipping, they should be given one bowl of tepid gruel for their once-a-day meal, in order that they can cry themselves to sleep in their vermin-infested straw beds with some food in their belly, to ensure they survive the night.

You have to meet them halfway, at least-They should be allowed to wear whatever color of grain sack they like for clothing , though.

Sounds like a good idea to me. :twisted: Yeah, and so did Communism :roll:

[patrickt]

"In school students are striped of their right to freedom of speech and religion.. recently In Florida several high schools have striped the right to wear religious symbols such as Crosses and pentagrams.

Clearly these things violate constitutional rights guaranteed to U.S citizens Upon the first breathe you draw as a legal citizen. any opposition or comments discontent with these arrangements are promptly done away with.. threatened by administrative action on false pretences to the actual authority bestowed to them as administrators."

I'm sorry but the Constitution says that the government will pass no laws abridging the freedom of speech. It doesn't say you can wear or say whatever you want where you work or where you study or where you play. That's up to whomever is operating the specific venue or organization.

Where I worked we dealt with the public. Women couldn't wear halter tops and men could come to work in speedos. We didn't hire people who chose to tattoo their faces. And, yes, there were speech restrictions on how people addressed each other and the public.

I'm old. You're young. My life is approaching its end and I've had a great run. You're young and have a whole life in front of you. Relax, continue your education, and enjoy your life.

I do have a question off topic a bit. You said you were a straight A student. Did that include English. I'm not making fun of you but as you said your English skills are poor and I concur. Did you get A's in English?

[Babylon_Horuv]

Requiem Of Rose wrote: No It would not be discrimante.. Its constentunional... You are allowed to wear a cross or a pentragram in public... you are entitled to say merry christmas... if your relgion says you should wear a 2foot long gold cross around your neck a Police officer cannot stop you so why can a teacher?

why in public schools are we not granted the public rights suposably garanteed by the Consitution of the United states?

I wondered that myself when I was in school. I still think school children should be allowed their constitutional rights as a preparation for the real world, however I did have this explained to me. The school acts in loco parentis, assuming the rights and responsibilities of a parent while the child is in school. A parent does have the right to deny his or her child rights they are otherwise guaranteed, so long as the parent is not abusive and provides a nurturing environment. I maintain that is right for a parent, just not for a school. Parents should have the right to restrict their children's speech, religious actions, etc. Schools should not, but under the current model they do.

[Babylon_Horuv]

beachbum bob wrote: Requiem Of Rose wrote: No It would not be discrimante.. Its constentunional... You are allowed to wear a cross or a pentragram in public... you are entitled to say merry christmas... if your relgion says you should wear a 2foot long gold cross around your neck a Police officer cannot stop you so why can a teacher?

why in public schools are we not granted the public rights suposably garanteed by the Consitution of the United states?


As a former a school board member...I can say simply that the public school is responsible for all children attending the schools and in that responsibility, comes rules and limits. What is done in the school, at school functions, and on school grounds falls under that responsibility that is granted by the voters and the taxpayers of that school district....and the school board has the power and the responsibility to institute rules

As an employee at business may have a constitutional right to stand up in the middle of the office to cuss out the boss but their is no constitutional right that prevents that employee from losing their job. In the "private" sector, the employer can limit "constitutional rights" such as speech, what religious symbols can be (or not) be displayed, what manner of dress is tolerated....what manner of "unreasonable searches" can be done...as an employee has whatever rights the employer grants them as the contract of employment...and circumcedes the constitutional rights

the same applies to public and private schools

The school's ability to limit the student's freedoms does not fall under the same category as a business' righ to refuse service or employment based on certain restrictions. Also a business is not allowed to discriminate based on religion. In Loco Parentis and the rights of an employer are quite different.

[Babylon_Horuv]

beachbum bob wrote: Requiem Of Rose wrote: I Got My GED March 21, 2004. I am now enrolled in a Poltical science Major. Any further questions?....

I am Not content to allow a system riddled with failures and increasingly failing resaults on the National scale. to remain a Failing system. I am not content to let it reach a Point where the next generations are surpressed and brain washed by Teacher's personal views and administrators thinking they acomplished somethign in their life because they made it to a piss-ad office. But they get a comfertable chair.

=) sorry But I am not one that is content to allow Failures to repeat them selfs and go un questioned and un noticed.


if the education system is riddled with failures...the problem usually lies in the lack of involvement of the parents into what their kids are doing and into what is happening in the classroom. Public education upto High School is learning the basics of education and learning....the critical thinking and application comes with college, graduate and post-graduate levels. A 16yr has little chance in understanding Descarte or metaphysics

I understood Descartes at 16. Now I think Descartes has a fairly adolescent mentality (nothing is real but me, very self centered) I agree that a lack of involvement by parents is often a problem, however there are many problems with school administration as well. I know that the school in my town has a top notch football program, they also have crumbling buildings, badly outdated computers, a lack of textbooks, and a shortage of teachers. Looks to me like the administration and the school board have the wrong priorities.