Political Crossfire Forums

CursedLemon · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:24 am Post subject: Here's a God question for you...

Does God send nonbelievers to hell or is unwilling to allow them into heaven...OR, is it that he is unable to take them into heaven, for whatever reason?

Carlin · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:45 am Post subject:

I'm going to go with neither, because there isn't really a God.

Lord Hargreaves · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 7192 Location: Herefordshire

CursedLemon wrote: Does God send nonbelievers to hell or is unwilling to allow them into heaven...OR, is it that he is unable to take them into heaven, for whatever reason?

no real difference :?

CursedLemon

Lord Hargreaves wrote: CursedLemon wrote: Does God send nonbelievers to hell or is unwilling to allow them into heaven...OR, is it that he is unable to take them into heaven, for whatever reason?

no real difference :?

Well I might ease up on the God-hating a little bit if it wasn't God's intention for people to go to hell.

*Waits for someone to take that completely wrong and say "OH BUT IT WAS NEVER GOD'S INTENTION FOR YOU TO GO TO HELL YOU HAVE TEH CHOICES!!!!!111 GOD WAS START THIS UNVERSE"*

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

I think it depends. If you were totally unaware of the "good news" then as long as you are a good person I believe most people would state that you probably can get into heaven still. If you actively disbelieve most people would tell you are going to hell.

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5537 Location: Dreamland, NC

CursedLemon wrote: Lord Hargreaves wrote: CursedLemon wrote: Does God send nonbelievers to hell or is unwilling to allow them into heaven...OR, is it that he is unable to take them into heaven, for whatever reason?

no real difference :?

Well I might ease up on the God-hating a little bit if it wasn't God's intention for people to go to hell.

*Waits for someone to take that completely wrong and say "OH BUT IT WAS NEVER GOD'S INTENTION FOR YOU TO GO TO HELL YOU HAVE TEH CHOICES!!!!!111 GOD WAS START THIS UNVERSE"*

This is what the catechism has to say.

IV. HELL

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

I posed the question to my Catholic theology teacher. I asked him did God create Hell or is Hell the absense of God.

He told me hell is the result of a detraction from God. He said, "The modern theological thought is that Hell is the result of human kind's complete inability to love God and his word. " He carried on with an analogy describing fire, "Take for instance fire. Fire is a good thing, it can be used to heat and bring light to dark places but fire can also be used to burn you alive." When an individual lives a life opposite to God they are choosing to send themselves to a place that is of the opposite power of God.

God is not all good, he is infinitly just and holy.

Alyssa M. · Joined: 05 Oct 2006 Posts: 57 Location: Montana

CursedLemon wrote: Does God send nonbelievers to hell or is unwilling to allow them into heaven...OR, is it that he is unable to take them into heaven, for whatever reason? Not sure, maybe they just disappear... jkjk they probably would go to hell, because my bible group leader said if you can't accept God and Jesus into your heart, you will go to hell.

BOggThe1rst · Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 93

The Sumerian Epic of Creation, the oldest historical stone tablets of humanity state that the word God means Leader, Chief, Boss, etc...
And the word Human means "primitive worker".

eynon

Alyssa M. wrote: CursedLemon wrote: Does God send nonbelievers to hell or is unwilling to allow them into heaven...OR, is it that he is unable to take them into heaven, for whatever reason? Not sure, maybe they just disappear... jkjk they probably would go to hell, because my bible group leader said if you can't accept God and Jesus into your heart, you will go to hell.

now, now......you're bible leader doesn't get to decide that. We don't strive to have a relationship with God because we hoep for rewards in the next life, least I don't.

eynon · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject:

BOggThe1rst wrote: The Sumerian Epic of Creation, the oldest historical stone tablets of humanity state that the word God means Leader, Chief, Boss, etc...
And the word Human means "primitive worker".

:lol: :lol: :lol: I love it.......

milk carton · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 87

i think that if you are a good person and you do good things but you are an atheist then god would probably let you into heaven. if not then s*cks to god for letting good people go to hell.

Shiryou · Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Minnesota

If someone knows the Scripture and still rejects God, God won't let them into heaven.
If someone does not know the Scripture, and has never heard of God, God will make the decision.

Good people are still sinners, it doesn't matter how good you are, it matters if you believe Christ is the savior.

I really don't like discussing this because I've pissed off quite a few people. So I'll end my post here.

BOggThe1rst · Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 93

eynon wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: The Sumerian Epic of Creation, the oldest historical stone tablets of humanity state that the word God means Leader, Chief, Boss, etc...
And the word Human means "primitive worker".

:lol: :lol: :lol: I love it.......

Do you deny this?

eynon · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject:

BOggThe1rst wrote: eynon wrote: BOggThe1rst wrote: The Sumerian Epic of Creation, the oldest historical stone tablets of humanity state that the word God means Leader, Chief, Boss, etc...
And the word Human means "primitive worker".

:lol: :lol: :lol: I love it.......

Do you deny this?

quite the opposite, I agree with it.......... :lol:

eynon · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject:

milk carton wrote: i think that if you are a good person and you do good things but you are an atheist then god would probably let you into heaven. if not then s*cks to god for letting good people go to hell.

tricky...........what are the standards defining a good vs a bad person. Is a person good for merely not causing significant harm, or must they serve some higher calling?

god or no god it's important to seek the wisdom of others as opposed to relying purely on one's own.

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

I don't know I'm not God...

eynon · Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:31 am Post subject:

LetsGetReal wrote: I don't know I'm not God...

yeesh...........then you never had food poisining, that makes one sure of one's mortality :)

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6505

you don't choose what you believe in--you either believe it or you don't

so if god existed, its kinda unjust for him to be judging us based on that, dont you think?

eynon · Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:06 am Post subject:

ieatfood wrote: you don't choose what you believe in--you either believe it or you don't

so if god existed, its kinda unjust for him to be judging us based on that, dont you think?

how calvininst of you..........

Rozzlapeed · Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 435 Location: Scottsdale, AZ

God doesn't keep people from entering heaven, because it isn't a place. Nor is hell. They are both states of being. Heaven is being in the presence of God, and hell is the opposite. The state of your soul after death is the same as it was during your life. You either choose to be with God, or choose to reject God, but God is always calling.

There, isn't that beautiful?