Political Crossfire Forums

[THEXRATED]

Interesting article about machine intelligence, application of brain outside our bodies and so on. I particulary remember a post here not so long ago where someone said that machines will never have "intelligence". Perhaps he was right, they might so quickly supercede us in that territory that we would be no judges. Top scientists in the below article seem to agree with that assessment....

Introducing humans version 2.0, BBCnews

"Prof De Garis believes that in a matter of years machine intelligence will supersede our own by a factor of millions."

[LostSoul3412]

THEXRATED wrote: in a matter of years machine intelligence will supersede our own by a factor of millions

You mean it hasn't yet?

[Zampano]

Do you think there is some critical difference between a human intelligence and machine intelligence that could differ how humans and machines operate?
I used to think that robots would never ba able to equal humans in logic, thinking on their own and building off of their memory to establish their own thought, but now I'm not so sure . . .

[Fido]

What can they know, the knowledge of which their lives will depend upon?

on a side note...

Don't we all have enough of others doing our thinking for us? It is not just the president, but everyone on down who feels more free knowing nothing and choosing everything? And think as we may that AI helps us to narrow our choices, and puts a fine edge on everything, it is possible that those at the top think only of no longer having to deal with the rabble.

They techized the military without understanding that war is a sort of human relationship. They thought they could do it all with programed propaganda and smart bombs. After a while you have to ask for whom all this high technology is for. Who does it benefit? I have seen Robots. Monsters stuck at knee level in a floor doing the work of five men who no longer had a job, and having the advantage of never needing rest, or a toilet break.

Who wants to live forever? Who wants to clone themselves for a harvest of organs? Who wants to live where madmen rule and the poor are systematically and technologically oppressed? It is not just in the workplace that people can be replaced with machines. But where is the machine who can know our nightmares?

[Numb]

Machines, as far as I can tell are not innovative. The only knowledge that they have are the knowledge they are programmed with. I resent giving a machine the ability to "think".

[Fido]

Numb wrote: Machines, as far as I can tell are not innovative. The only knowledge that they have are the knowledge they are programmed with. I resent giving a machine the ability to "think".

So what is worse: A machine that can think, or a man who thinks he can think while he does it all by rote?

I recognize that there must be something wrong with my brain. Anyone who follows my typing can see I leave words out, ideas out, and sometimes whole sentences out in my haste. But, because my mind actually perceives differently I am in a constant struggle to find if I am thinking correctly, or thinking as others are thinking or whether both of us or neither of us is correct in our thinking. It is for this reason that I own hundreds of books and have read many of them, -to sample the thoughts of other people and other ages. Yet, I wonder often at the tenuous thread of innovation, and the source of insight. No one will ever make a machine as unique as a human.

What we have to fear are machines that are so complex, multi-faceted, and sensitive that they they do not simply think, but have a multitude of brains and the ability to weigh options and consider alternatives. Innovation as such will never compare to the ability to do the meaningless chores of life as though there were actual value in them. What humans must always come to terms with is the fact that those who can do always have more actual value than those who only think. As we do less we become more dependent upon those who can do. If machines ever rule the world it will be because of some nerd who found the right key to caress.

The question behind the question, is who will control technology, and who will benefit from technology that is beyond democratic control? In the ancient world slaves made the citizens superfluous, and eventually replaced them as both slave owners and citizens. Will machines as our slaves do this to us? That process has begun. Every time a man must compete with a slave he becomes more a slave. Every time a man must compete with a machine he must become more machine like. If we were to begin competing with computers we might have to consider that people are the problem, and computers are the solution. Then what? Suicide?

[John]

I haven't met a machine yet that wasn't as dumb as a rock.

[Atlas Bergeron]

Numb wrote: Machines, as far as I can tell are not innovative. The only knowledge that they have are the knowledge they are programmed with. I resent giving a machine the ability to "think".
why, becuase you can't? :lol:

[Atlas Bergeron]

Fido wrote: What can they know, the knowledge of which their lives will depend upon?

on a side note...

Don't we all have enough of others doing our thinking for us? It is not just the president, but everyone on down who feels more free knowing nothing and choosing everything? And think as we may that AI helps us to narrow our choices, and puts a fine edge on everything, it is possible that those at the top think only of no longer having to deal with the rabble.

They techized the military without understanding that war is a sort of human relationship. They thought they could do it all with programed propaganda and smart bombs. After a while you have to ask for whom all this high technology is for. Who does it benefit? I have seen Robots. Monsters stuck at knee level in a floor doing the work of five men who no longer had a job, and having the advantage of never needing rest, or a toilet break.

Who wants to live forever? Who wants to clone themselves for a harvest of organs? Who wants to live where madmen rule and the poor are systematically and technologically oppressed? It is not just in the workplace that people can be replaced with machines. But where is the machine who can know our nightmares?

as usual, you are completely full of s**t.
First you start out by talking about politics and goverment control, then you spazmatically switch to some insane morality about war... i don't even know what your talking about--and then you go to the marxist claim that machines are taking over the work of men, and thus harming society.

And then you form stupid questions like "who wants to live forever"... um, me?--after doing so making a non sequitar connection that living forever will lead to madmen ruling the world and the poor being technologically suppressed. And then, what the f**k? Nightmares?

Full

Of

s**t

[Atlas Bergeron]

John wrote: I haven't met a machine yet that wasn't as dumb as a rock.

rocks can calculate the cubed root of 37.24?

huh, didn't know that

[Zampano]

On a side note, does it matter if machines have the ability of intelligent thought they're going to imprison us within 'the matrix' for the use of our body energy?
It probably wouldn't, but then they're not exactly at that kind of advanced point. :wink:

[Numb]

Atlas Bergeron wrote: Numb wrote: Machines, as far as I can tell are not innovative. The only knowledge that they have are the knowledge they are programmed with. I resent giving a machine the ability to "think".
why, becuase you can't? :lol:
I know that throwing around insults seems like a good way to get your point across but I can tell you that it is not :-D . Why do we need machines to do so many things for us, how dependent and trusting of machines will we get and how likely is it that it would end up being what does us in? Before we do ourselves in?

[Fido]

Atlas Bergeron wrote: Fido wrote: What can they know, the knowledge of which their lives will depend upon?

on a side note...

Don't we all have enough of others doing our thinking for us? It is not just the president, but everyone on down who feels more free knowing nothing and choosing everything? And think as we may that AI helps us to narrow our choices, and puts a fine edge on everything, it is possible that those at the top think only of no longer having to deal with the rabble.

They techized the military without understanding that war is a sort of human relationship. They thought they could do it all with programed propaganda and smart bombs. After a while you have to ask for whom all this high technology is for. Who does it benefit? I have seen Robots. Monsters stuck at knee level in a floor doing the work of five men who no longer had a job, and having the advantage of never needing rest, or a toilet break.

Who wants to live forever? Who wants to clone themselves for a harvest of organs? Who wants to live where madmen rule and the poor are systematically and technologically oppressed? It is not just in the workplace that people can be replaced with machines. But where is the machine who can know our nightmares?

as usual, you are completely full of s**t.
First you start out by talking about politics and goverment control, then you spazmatically switch to some insane morality about war... i don't even know what your talking about--and then you go to the marxist claim that machines are taking over the work of men, and thus harming society.

And then you form stupid questions like "who wants to live forever"... um, me?--after doing so making a non sequitar connection that living forever will lead to madmen ruling the world and the poor being technologically suppressed. And then, what the f**k? Nightmares?

Full

Of

s**t

Atlas; Have you ever considered the nature of the first technology? It was probably a simple cord that turned a meal into a slave. Technology is never about benefit to all, but how to exploit people better, faster, and smarter. Look at what it does to others if it does not do it to you. What about the poor slobs I saw get put off their jobs by a robot? Did they buy any cars? No, but then, neither did the robot. But while the robot was working -the cost, and I will bet it was big considering this was no toy, was calculated at far cheaper than the men, allowing a reduction in the price of the product. So five people are canned so a chunk of steel with a brain can go through repetitive motions that reduced the price of an auto by 33 dollars a piece. What, then, do the unemployed former producers of Autos have -to justify their existences?

We look around at unproductive people like yourself and think that only willingness stands between them and a productive life. We are being made useless because the tools are taken from us. When factories are being taken beyond our shores, and they keep the same name and have the same owners and we have to buy out of having no choice, what are we? What will we be when our money runs out? While someone needs us for a vote we might have a value like a citizen of Rome, but when the power to make presidents goes the the military what use will we have? We have lost control of our industry and our technology. How can we, dear atlas, have it back? How do we keep from being made non person by being made non producers?

[Atlas Bergeron]

Fido wrote: Atlas Bergeron wrote: Fido wrote: What can they know, the knowledge of which their lives will depend upon?

on a side note...

Don't we all have enough of others doing our thinking for us? It is not just the president, but everyone on down who feels more free knowing nothing and choosing everything? And think as we may that AI helps us to narrow our choices, and puts a fine edge on everything, it is possible that those at the top think only of no longer having to deal with the rabble.

They techized the military without understanding that war is a sort of human relationship. They thought they could do it all with programed propaganda and smart bombs. After a while you have to ask for whom all this high technology is for. Who does it benefit? I have seen Robots. Monsters stuck at knee level in a floor doing the work of five men who no longer had a job, and having the advantage of never needing rest, or a toilet break.

Who wants to live forever? Who wants to clone themselves for a harvest of organs? Who wants to live where madmen rule and the poor are systematically and technologically oppressed? It is not just in the workplace that people can be replaced with machines. But where is the machine who can know our nightmares?

as usual, you are completely full of s**t.
First you start out by talking about politics and goverment control, then you spazmatically switch to some insane morality about war... i don't even know what your talking about--and then you go to the marxist claim that machines are taking over the work of men, and thus harming society.

And then you form stupid questions like "who wants to live forever"... um, me?--after doing so making a non sequitar connection that living forever will lead to madmen ruling the world and the poor being technologically suppressed. And then, what the f**k? Nightmares?

Full

Of

s**t

Atlas; Have you ever considered the nature of the first technology? It was probably a simple cord that turned a meal into a slave.
uh... what? Is this supposed to have some romantic meaning which I can't quite grasp, or is also a pile of steamy s**t?

A cord that turned a -meal- into a -slave-? Do you mean to say that you believe the first technology turned a well done steak into a plantation slave?

Quote: Technology is never about benefit to all,
correct, it is about benefiting one's self

Quote: but how to exploit people better, faster, and smarter.
it is about utilizing resources more efficiently. In a market environment, it is about utilizing resources better than your compeitotr, at taking new approaches to the problem and producing goods for cheaper (so that you can get rich)

Quote: Look at what it does to others if it does not do it to you.
yes, what has the industrial revolution done? It has raised the standard of living exponensiolly, we are now living to seventy when we lived to thirty or fourty before. We are recieving more callories, have metal carriges which are many times better than horses, we have instant communication and cheaper (relative to our income) education. We have more wealth. Indeed, what has technology done for mankind...

Quote: What about the poor slobs I saw get put off their jobs by a robot?
Well, they have numerous options. They could A. start thier own buisness and try to compete with everyone else in the market. B. look for an employer that can compete with everyone else in the market and sell their labor to him or C. curl up in a little ball and proclaim that life isn't fair and die.

Quote: Did they buy any cars? No, but then, neither did the robot. But while the robot was working -the cost, and I will bet it was big considering this was no toy, was calculated at far cheaper than the men, allowing a reduction in the price of the product. So five people are canned so a chunk of steel with a brain can go through repetitive motions that reduced the price of an auto by 33 dollars a piece. What, then, do the unemployed former producers of Autos have -to justify their existences?
they don't need anything to justify thier existence. They are the be all end all, and now they can look for a job and buy a car for 33 dollars to boot.

Quote: We look around at unproductive people like yourself and think that only willingness stands between them and a productive life. We are being made useless because the tools are taken from us.
we are being made more useful because of the tools that we have invented. A single farmer can now create as much food as more than two hundred from the times of the indians, or the mayans, or the romans. I call that making us more usefull, not "making us useless". I must again point out that you are, as always, completely full of crap

Quote: When factories are being taken beyond our shores, and they keep the same name and have the same owners and we have to buy out of having no choice, what are we?
oh, so now human labor is important? Just a moment ago you were saying that machines were taking all reason for human labor, and now you are switching that opinion. Please pick a point or get the f**k out.

Quote: What will we be when our money runs out? While someone needs us for a vote we might have a value like a citizen of Rome, but when the power to make presidents goes the the military what use will we have? We have lost control of our industry and our technology. How can we, dear atlas, have it back? How do we keep from being made non person by being made non producers?
A thicker stream of s**t have I not ever seen in all the days of my life. A-wealth is created, it runs out only when we stop creating it. B- The government is given value by the citizens of it, not the citizens given value by the government. C. the millitary is given value by protecting citizens. Not vice versa. D- We are the only producers, we are are the alpha, and our ends (our life and our happieness) are the omega. When we develop AI, they two will be the "we", they have rights just like every human being, they will be their own Alpha and Omega, thier own begining and end. At the same time, humans will be advanced by parts of themselves being converted to machines. They are already developing microchips that directly link into the brain and allow a person to influence objects around him. We will be on equal footing with the machines, in fact, we will be the machines.

[Geronimo]

I think computers and other forms of technology will always have its bugs...and always be somewhat obsolete.

[Fido]

Geronimo wrote: I think computers and other forms of technology will always have its bugs...and always be somewhat obsolete.

Sure, nothing is as obsolete as the answer to yesterday's question.

[thehollowman]

Quote: Once computers have the processing power of the human brain it will be possible to enhance our intelligence with silicon implants and even download the contents of our minds to machines, preserving them forever.

What happeneds if these computers crash?