Political Crossfire Forums

[eynon]

Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I'd agree with you.........on all points :wink:

you're right, no-one knows what awaits us after death, I don't claim to follow God out of fear of hell fire or hope of paradise, such things are not faith..........faith for me is relizing there is something out there bigger then me and humbling myself before it. Not in fear mind you, rather in awe.......as a man of science I'm sure you've had "dammmmnnnnnn" moments(like how many chemical reaction are there in a human body every second?!), it's the big..........the difference between myself and athiests is that I believe there is thought behind the big.

[Faet]

eynon wrote: Faet wrote: If by jammin, you mean telling me atheists are hedonistic in nature, then sure. We were jammin. But there was no need to take a holier-than-thou attitude, and I was simply reacting to it.

:lol:(sips whiskey) most athiests can't keep up with my hedonism :wink:

so........what makes you assert that the bible's morality isn't based on reason and experience? it all sounds pretty pragmatic to me.

as to one's personal morality not being based on the bible, well, most atheist I know base their morality heavily on the parameters and guidelines of our culture, which happens to pull big time from the ideals of Judeo-Christian culture, and the NT specifically. Except for this one atheist friend I have, he's more into Viking morality :wink:

Well, it is a hard question to answer, really. I agree with quite a few of the Bible's teachings on morality. (mostly from the NT, like you said)

I think the best way to start answering the question would be to take an instance of morality in the Bible I don't believe is based on reason and/or experience... let's shoot for one of the commandments that doesn't neccesarily depend on having a god. The first one I see (in order) is:

Honor your father and your mother.

I don't see this as an absolute truth, or a rule that all people should adhere to. There are plenty of situations where a parent may not deserve respect.

Let's look at the full text of this:

Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

It seems as though this would be more of a "respect your elders" type statement. Again, not something I see as something that I should always follow.


But, let's take things out of perspective of the Bible.. innate morality implies that there are absolute truths regarding 'right' and 'wrong'. While I am no expert on the topic, I believe morality to be relative and based largely on the context of the action(s).

It may seem like I'm cutting this post short, but I need some sleep, and writing more would probably be a bad idea.

[eynon]

^me too, we'll pick this up later:)

[mojo]

Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I dont know of anyone who believes out of fear of hell.

People believe because they believe its the right way to believe.

[Shady]

mojo wrote: Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I dont know of anyone who believes out of fear of hell.

People believe because they believe its the right way to believe.

That's my point. I won't choose to believe in a divine power simply out of fear of a hell.

[toddytodd]

Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I dont know of anyone who believes out of fear of hell.

People believe because they believe its the right way to believe.

That's my point. I won't choose to believe in a divine power simply out of fear of a hell.

I know of more than a few people that now believe in God because of their initial fear of hell (not to mention guilt).
But that's just me.

[mojo]

toddytodd wrote: Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I dont know of anyone who believes out of fear of hell.

People believe because they believe its the right way to believe.

That's my point. I won't choose to believe in a divine power simply out of fear of a hell.

I know of more than a few people that now believe in God because of their initial fear of hell (not to mention guilt).
But that's just me.

Those people have their bearings in the wrong direction. Its Ok for someone to believe that but it eventually leads to a much less fulfilled relationship with God, IMO.

[toddytodd]

mojo wrote: toddytodd wrote: Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I dont know of anyone who believes out of fear of hell.

People believe because they believe its the right way to believe.

That's my point. I won't choose to believe in a divine power simply out of fear of a hell.

I know of more than a few people that now believe in God because of their initial fear of hell (not to mention guilt).
But that's just me.

Those people have their bearings in the wrong direction. Its Ok for someone to believe that but it eventually leads to a much less fulfilled relationship with God, IMO.

Perhaps. However, as we both know, it is their responsibility to make their relationship with God as fullfilling as possible, not ours. Personally, I think any relationship is better than no at all.....

[mojo]

toddytodd wrote: mojo wrote: toddytodd wrote: Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I dont know of anyone who believes out of fear of hell.

People believe because they believe its the right way to believe.

That's my point. I won't choose to believe in a divine power simply out of fear of a hell.

I know of more than a few people that now believe in God because of their initial fear of hell (not to mention guilt).
But that's just me.

Those people have their bearings in the wrong direction. Its Ok for someone to believe that but it eventually leads to a much less fulfilled relationship with God, IMO.

Perhaps. However, as we both know, it is their responsibility to make their relationship with God as fullfilling as possible, not ours. Personally, I think any relationship is better than no at all.....

Correct

[Shady]

toddytodd wrote: Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I dont know of anyone who believes out of fear of hell.

People believe because they believe its the right way to believe.

That's my point. I won't choose to believe in a divine power simply out of fear of a hell.

I know of more than a few people that now believe in God because of their initial fear of hell (not to mention guilt).
But that's just me.

I don't fear hell either. My point is just because I am "doomed" I won't believe in a God just to try to escape my everlasting punishment. If I'm doomed then I'm doomed.

[eynon]

Shady wrote: toddytodd wrote: Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.

I dont know of anyone who believes out of fear of hell.

People believe because they believe its the right way to believe.

That's my point. I won't choose to believe in a divine power simply out of fear of a hell.

I know of more than a few people that now believe in God because of their initial fear of hell (not to mention guilt).
But that's just me.

I don't fear hell either. My point is just because I am "doomed" I won't believe in a God just to try to escape my everlasting punishment.

good, you shouldn't