Political Crossfire Forums

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5484 Location: Dreamland, NC

Carlin wrote: mojo wrote: Enoch wrote: mojo wrote: No person has the right to jusdge anyone on the basis of whether or not they will saved.

But, IMHO, those who intentionally shut themselves off from God in both belief and actions will not share in His glory. And what does it mean, in your opinion, to shut oneself off from God in belief and action?

Well I must reinforce that this is MY opinion and not God's. There is a difference between telling someone they are damned and telling them they are damnABLE.

In my opinion, to shut oneself off from God is to intentionally isolate yourself from God's word and grace. Therefore someone who understands Christianity in all of its glory, yet still rejects its truths in favor of their own narrow-minded self interest. Basically a person who puts themselves and the material world before a higher purpose.

A person who is so consumed with themselves that they neither care for nor want to care for those who need to be helped.

Of course salvation is ultimately in the hands of God and his grace. Christ (as capn so eloquently put) is amnesty from our sins.

It always just comes to the fact that there will be punishment for free thinkers. It's obnoxious, yet if people really need to believe this stuff in order to even begin to live a happy life, then may your imagination continue to bless you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaEU_yYgWd8

I see Athiests throwing around the term freedom lightly as if Freedom in itself is the highest authority. Freedom is the means to be JUST and GOOD.

The goal in life is not to be happy as you so ignorantly assert. I dont find anything particularily happy about caring for AIDS victims in Houston, Texas or helping to care for mentally disabled children in Costa Rica. But I have done some of those things because they are the right things to do. The thing that as a Christian I am driven to do through PURPOSE.

You can't tell ME I am living in an ignorant fairy tale. When it is YOU who doesn't grasp the concept that their are bigger things going on than fulfilling your narrow minded concept of happiness.

Im not impressed by your lame music videos that add absolutely nothing to conversation other than insults.

Faet · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 67 Location: Florida

mojo wrote: Carlin wrote: mojo wrote: Enoch wrote: mojo wrote: No person has the right to jusdge anyone on the basis of whether or not they will saved.

But, IMHO, those who intentionally shut themselves off from God in both belief and actions will not share in His glory. And what does it mean, in your opinion, to shut oneself off from God in belief and action?

Well I must reinforce that this is MY opinion and not God's. There is a difference between telling someone they are damned and telling them they are damnABLE.

In my opinion, to shut oneself off from God is to intentionally isolate yourself from God's word and grace. Therefore someone who understands Christianity in all of its glory, yet still rejects its truths in favor of their own narrow-minded self interest. Basically a person who puts themselves and the material world before a higher purpose.

A person who is so consumed with themselves that they neither care for nor want to care for those who need to be helped.

Of course salvation is ultimately in the hands of God and his grace. Christ (as capn so eloquently put) is amnesty from our sins.

It always just comes to the fact that there will be punishment for free thinkers. It's obnoxious, yet if people really need to believe this stuff in order to even begin to live a happy life, then may your imagination continue to bless you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaEU_yYgWd8

I see Athiests throwing around the term freedom lightly as if Freedom in itself is the highest authority. Freedom is the means to be JUST and GOOD.

The goal in life is not to be happy as you so ignorantly assert. I dont find anything particularily happy about caring for AIDS victims in Houston, Texas or helping to care for mentally disabled children in Costa Rica. But I have done some of those things because they are the right things to do. The thing that as a Christian I am driven to do through PURPOSE.

You can't tell ME I am living in an ignorant fairy tale. When it is YOU who doesn't grasp the concept that their are bigger things going on than fulfilling your narrow minded concept of happiness.

Im not impressed by your lame music videos that add absolutely nothing to conversation other than insults.

Don't spout that s**t. Just because atheists don't see your set of moral truths as correct doesn't mean that we're a bunch of godless hedonists. Godless, perhaps, but many of us have extremely high moral standards.

Take your piety elsewhere, thanks.

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5484 Location: Dreamland, NC

Faet wrote: mojo wrote: Carlin wrote: mojo wrote: Enoch wrote: mojo wrote: No person has the right to jusdge anyone on the basis of whether or not they will saved.

But, IMHO, those who intentionally shut themselves off from God in both belief and actions will not share in His glory. And what does it mean, in your opinion, to shut oneself off from God in belief and action?

Well I must reinforce that this is MY opinion and not God's. There is a difference between telling someone they are damned and telling them they are damnABLE.

In my opinion, to shut oneself off from God is to intentionally isolate yourself from God's word and grace. Therefore someone who understands Christianity in all of its glory, yet still rejects its truths in favor of their own narrow-minded self interest. Basically a person who puts themselves and the material world before a higher purpose.

A person who is so consumed with themselves that they neither care for nor want to care for those who need to be helped.

Of course salvation is ultimately in the hands of God and his grace. Christ (as capn so eloquently put) is amnesty from our sins.

It always just comes to the fact that there will be punishment for free thinkers. It's obnoxious, yet if people really need to believe this stuff in order to even begin to live a happy life, then may your imagination continue to bless you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaEU_yYgWd8

I see Athiests throwing around the term freedom lightly as if Freedom in itself is the highest authority. Freedom is the means to be JUST and GOOD.

The goal in life is not to be happy as you so ignorantly assert. I dont find anything particularily happy about caring for AIDS victims in Houston, Texas or helping to care for mentally disabled children in Costa Rica. But I have done some of those things because they are the right things to do. The thing that as a Christian I am driven to do through PURPOSE.

You can't tell ME I am living in an ignorant fairy tale. When it is YOU who doesn't grasp the concept that their are bigger things going on than fulfilling your narrow minded concept of happiness.

Im not impressed by your lame music videos that add absolutely nothing to conversation other than insults.

Don't spout that s**t. Just because atheists don't see your set of moral truths as correct doesn't mean that we're a bunch of godless hedonists. Godless, perhaps, but many of us have extremely high moral standards.

Take your piety elsewhere, thanks.

I suppose that will be for God to judge.

I can't tell you, "you are going to hell". Im not saying anyone is damned. I am saying what is damnable.

Im not a moral authority. Im just a repentant servant who tries to do the best I can.

Corona · Joined: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 155 Location: Sierra Vista, AZ

*listens to The Road to Hell by Chris Rea*

This is a good song, maybe being doomed isn't so bad.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 22860

Corona wrote: *listens to The Road to Hell by Chris Rea*

This is a good song, maybe being doomed isn't so bad.

Yes it is.

It's the absolute worst thing that could happen.

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

John wrote: Corona wrote: *listens to The Road to Hell by Chris Rea*

This is a good song, maybe being doomed isn't so bad.

Yes it is.

It's the absolute worst thing that could happen.

Could be. Have you ever been doomed?

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5484 Location: Dreamland, NC

Shady wrote: John wrote: Corona wrote: *listens to The Road to Hell by Chris Rea*

This is a good song, maybe being doomed isn't so bad.

Yes it is.

It's the absolute worst thing that could happen.

Could be. Have you ever been doomed?

Maybe Im crazy but "Doomed" has never been used in a positive light.

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6554 Location: US

Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?
God doesn't send you to hell he honors your choice.

eynon

superchick wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?
God doesn't send you to hell he honors your choice.

preach on soul sistah 8:)

hey Faet, what's up bro, we were jammin, don't let this thread become a flame fest........so, where does the religious implications of innate morality and biblical morality split from the philosophical implications? :)

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

mojo wrote: Shady wrote: John wrote: Corona wrote: *listens to The Road to Hell by Chris Rea*

This is a good song, maybe being doomed isn't so bad.

Yes it is.

It's the absolute worst thing that could happen.

Could be. Have you ever been doomed?

Maybe Im crazy but "Doomed" has never been used in a positive light.

Have you ever been doomed?

Dragoon · Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1440 Location: California

The idea of a loving God condemning people because they don't believe in him in the right way (or use free will to disbelieve in him) is silly.

Besides, Cthulhu is much cooler then God. He eats people. :-D

eynon · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:54 am Post subject:

Dragoon wrote: The idea of a loving God condemning people because they don't believe in him in the right way (or use free will to disbelieve in him) is silly.

Besides, Cthulhu is much cooler then God. He eats people. :-D

my views on Cthulhu in summation:

yum

Faet · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 67 Location: Florida

eynon wrote: superchick wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?
God doesn't send you to hell he honors your choice.

preach on soul sistah 8:)

hey Faet, what's up bro, we were jammin, don't let this thread become a flame fest........so, where does the religious implications of innate morality and biblical morality split from the philosophical implications? :)

If by jammin, you mean telling me atheists are hedonistic in nature, then sure. We were jammin. But there was no need to take a holier-than-thou attitude, and I was simply reacting to it.

Religious implications of innate morality are based on the Bible, whereas philosophical insights into morality are usually based on reason or experience.

The two aren't neccesarily different, but my views on morality obviously don't base themselves on the Bible. (unless you believe there is innate morality, in which case you'd think that I'm wrong)

I'm certainly open to a discussion on the topic.

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5484 Location: Dreamland, NC

Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: John wrote: Corona wrote: *listens to The Road to Hell by Chris Rea*

This is a good song, maybe being doomed isn't so bad.

Yes it is.

It's the absolute worst thing that could happen.

Could be. Have you ever been doomed?

Maybe Im crazy but "Doomed" has never been used in a positive light.

Have you ever been doomed?

The word "doomed" by its nature implies a tremendous amount of suffering and pain.

Why would anyone want to have that happen?

Carlin · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject:

[quote="mojo"] Carlin wrote:
I see Athiests throwing around the term freedom lightly as if Freedom in itself is the highest authority. Freedom is the means to be JUST and GOOD.

The goal in life is not to be happy as you so ignorantly assert. I dont find anything particularily happy about caring for AIDS victims in Houston, Texas or helping to care for mentally disabled children in Costa Rica. But I have done some of those things because they are the right things to do. The thing that as a Christian I am driven to do through PURPOSE.

You can't tell ME I am living in an ignorant fairy tale. When it is YOU who doesn't grasp the concept that their are bigger things going on than fulfilling your narrow minded concept of happiness.

Im not impressed by your lame music videos that add absolutely nothing to conversation other than insults.

I'm not sure where all these assertions about me came from, but I can't say I care. I commend you on whatever help you give to the suffering in the world. You won't be rewarded for it, though it is noble. And hey, at least you don't boast about it. All I ask is that you do not view Atheists as immoral slime. The evidence shows quite the contrary in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

Ah, where would we be without secular thought?

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

mojo wrote: Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: John wrote: Corona wrote: *listens to The Road to Hell by Chris Rea*

This is a good song, maybe being doomed isn't so bad.

Yes it is.

It's the absolute worst thing that could happen.

Could be. Have you ever been doomed?

Maybe Im crazy but "Doomed" has never been used in a positive light.

Have you ever been doomed?

The word "doomed" by its nature implies a tremendous amount of suffering and pain.

Why would anyone want to have that happen?

Yes, but I don't accept that when I die I'll be "doomed". Maybe in your views being doom is the worst possible thing, but not in mine.

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

God will be the judge, and he will judge man according to his understanding, his words, thoughts, deeds, and by the intents of his heart. Any and all inequities, knowledge, opportunity, and circumstance, will be factored in. Each man's judgment will be unique to him as an individual. It will not just be a single line, where the believer will fall on one side and obtain heaven, with the rest falling on the other, and being thrust to hell for eternity.

eynon

Faet wrote: If by jammin, you mean telling me atheists are hedonistic in nature, then sure. We were jammin. But there was no need to take a holier-than-thou attitude, and I was simply reacting to it.

:lol:(sips whiskey) most athiests can't keep up with my hedonism :wink:

so........what makes you assert that the bible's morality isn't based on reason and experience? it all sounds pretty pragmatic to me.

as to one's personal morality not being based on the bible, well, most atheist I know base their morality heavily on the parameters and guidelines of our culture, which happens to pull big time from the ideals of Judeo-Christian culture, and the NT specifically. Except for this one atheist friend I have, he's more into Viking morality :wink:

eynon · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:43 pm Post subject:

Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: mojo wrote: Shady wrote: John wrote: Corona wrote: *listens to The Road to Hell by Chris Rea*

This is a good song, maybe being doomed isn't so bad.

Yes it is.

It's the absolute worst thing that could happen.

Could be. Have you ever been doomed?

Maybe Im crazy but "Doomed" has never been used in a positive light.

Have you ever been doomed?

The word "doomed" by its nature implies a tremendous amount of suffering and pain.

Why would anyone want to have that happen?

Yes, but I don't accept that when I die I'll be "doomed". Maybe in your views being doom is the worst possible thing, but not in mine.

look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

eynon wrote: look Doctor, your splitting hairs..........in the English lexicon "Doom"="suck", it means bad.........I don't claim to know what will happen to you after you die, but suck is a bad thing.

I enjoy a good suck every now and then, and you DO know what I mean. ;)

My point is nobody knows for sure what happens after you die, and I wouldn't believe in God purely out of fear. Nor do I think that is real belief, IF I'm going to believe- it's going to because of something more important then avoiding pain and fear.