Political Crossfire Forums

[Faet]

I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

[Shady]

I'm not worried, I know I've got a special spot in hell warming up for me. Right next to the lake of fire or so I'm told, very scenic.

[John]

Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

How can you hate God and be morally acceptable?

[cap'n queasy]

Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

Nobody is completely morally acceptable to God, God is Holy. Christians are no different than anyone else, all people transgress at times. In His sermon on the mount Y'shua shows the things we feel in our hearts from time to time have the same degree of unacceptability to God as less than desirable activities.

The good news is that God provided an "amnesty" for us in Christ. It is believing the promises God made us when He contacted humanity that is seeing the truth in the estimation of the writers of scripture and those who believe. The fact that God promised to allow us to be redeemed despite our unacceptable traits and history shows a lot of love for us on His part IMHO.

Realizing what it is we really are and seeking forgiveness for our sins is the first step in a life long process of growth that begins with accepting redemption through Christ. I think it is the willingness to seek improvement that shows God we love Him, and our neighbors, and these are the two greatest commandments of God. When we are willing to seek God out in this manner is when we become open to receive the Holy Spirit to dwell in our heart.

That's my view on the subject in a nutshell anyway. Hope it helps. :-D

[Faet]

John wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

How can you hate God and be morally acceptable?

Hate?

[Enoch]

John wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

How can you hate God and be morally acceptable? Who said anything about hate? Simply not believing a religion's interpretation of the divine doesn't equate to hate.

[The Comrade]

i'm doomed too, apparently.

[Faet]

The Comrade wrote:

i'm doomed too, apparently.

I get to see a lake made of fire? Impressive.

[Shady]

John wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

How can you hate God and be morally acceptable?

I have nothing against God, but I'll be the first to admit I ain't morally acceptable. I think I've broken about 7 of the commandments now or so... Ah well, such is life! I'm sure you'll enjoy being all righteous and melodramatic in heaven.

[Saracen]

Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

Probably because you'll find real love in religion? :-|

[Faet]

Saracen wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

Probably because you'll find real love in religion? :-|

How is that a reason?

[eynon]

Shady wrote: I'm not worried, I know I've got a special spot in hell warming up for me. Right next to the lake of fire or so I'm told, very scenic.

oh, so you plan on working for the HMOs after med-school I see :wink:

[Shady]

wannabe wrote: Shady wrote: I'm not worried, I know I've got a special spot in hell warming up for me. Right next to the lake of fire or so I'm told, very scenic.

oh, so you plan on working for the HMOs after med-school I see :wink:

Nope. I'm into research, I want to save lives. (obligatory *GASP*)

But no, I've been told I'm a damned soul enough times that I finally got the message. ;) And hey, it could be worse, they could send me to Montana for eternity. Man that'd be boring!

[ChuckBerry]

Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

He would not condemn otherwise morally acceptable people to damnation in hell. However.........

Faet wrote: It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

Since God does exist, if you have reasoned that He does not it is extremely difficult to create a truly moral existence by your own actions. A good moral conscience is built over a lifetime, and must be reinforced with study and prayer and sincere desire to attend to His will. We all have the natural instinct to follow the moral law that God has written in to our hearts, but we need guidance and practice always to stay focused.

The flaw in your logic is presuming free will can be used to reason moral choices for yourself. Moral choices are not subject to mental reasoning. There is a moral order, a moral law, that we are all subject to regardless of our cultural background. This moral order is part of the nature of God-created humans. We ignore this moral law at our own risk.

The following link goes into the subject in more detail.

[eynon]

Shady wrote: wannabe wrote: Shady wrote: I'm not worried, I know I've got a special spot in hell warming up for me. Right next to the lake of fire or so I'm told, very scenic.

oh, so you plan on working for the HMOs after med-school I see :wink:

Nope. I'm into research, I want to save lives. (obligatory *GASP*)

But no, I've been told I'm a damned soul enough times that I finally got the message. ;) And hey, it could be worse, they could send me to Montana for eternity. Man that'd be boring!

ah-so, evil pharmacutical Doctor who's gonna get rich off the misery of other.........or invent a better wang pill :wink:

lets see, for me hell on earth would be............Inner Mongolia, in winter, with only big hairy men around for company..........yep that would suck donkey balls.





to answer the real question here though......in my reading of the scriptures it's really not clear what happens to those who are "cut off"(from the book) after death, or what gets one "cut off". Although it mentions that people who abuse children or use Gods name to hurt and exploit others are in for a world of suck after they die. I like that :-D

[Faet]

CCD wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

He would not condemn otherwise morally acceptable people to damnation in hell. However.........

Faet wrote: It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

Since God does exist, if you have reasoned that He does not it is extremely difficult to create a truly moral existence by your own actions. A good moral conscience is built over a lifetime, and must be reinforced with study and prayer and sincere desire to attend to His will. We all have the natural instinct to follow the moral law that God has written in to our hearts, but we need guidance and practice always to stay focused.

The flaw in your logic is presuming free will can be used to reason moral choices for yourself. Moral choices are not subject to mental reasoning. There is a moral order, a moral law, that we are all subject to regardless of our cultural background. This moral order is part of the nature of God-created humans. We ignore this moral law at our own risk.

The following link goes into the subject in more detail.

Your absolutism amazes me.

There are two kinds of people of faith: those who talk to god, and those that god speak to. I'll assume you're the crazier of the two.

If there were an innate moral law, then why would we need the ten commandments?

[eynon]

Faet wrote: CCD wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

He would not condemn otherwise morally acceptable people to damnation in hell. However.........

Faet wrote: It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

Since God does exist, if you have reasoned that He does not it is extremely difficult to create a truly moral existence by your own actions. A good moral conscience is built over a lifetime, and must be reinforced with study and prayer and sincere desire to attend to His will. We all have the natural instinct to follow the moral law that God has written in to our hearts, but we need guidance and practice always to stay focused.

The flaw in your logic is presuming free will can be used to reason moral choices for yourself. Moral choices are not subject to mental reasoning. There is a moral order, a moral law, that we are all subject to regardless of our cultural background. This moral order is part of the nature of God-created humans. We ignore this moral law at our own risk.

The following link goes into the subject in more detail.

Your absolutism amazes me.

There are two kinds of people of faith: those who talk to god, and those that god speak to. I'll assume you're the crazier of the two.

If there were an innate moral law, then why would we need the ten commandments?

people confuse easily, that's why.........10 commandments jsut laid out the basics.

[Faet]

wannabe wrote: Faet wrote: CCD wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

He would not condemn otherwise morally acceptable people to damnation in hell. However.........

Faet wrote: It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

Since God does exist, if you have reasoned that He does not it is extremely difficult to create a truly moral existence by your own actions. A good moral conscience is built over a lifetime, and must be reinforced with study and prayer and sincere desire to attend to His will. We all have the natural instinct to follow the moral law that God has written in to our hearts, but we need guidance and practice always to stay focused.

The flaw in your logic is presuming free will can be used to reason moral choices for yourself. Moral choices are not subject to mental reasoning. There is a moral order, a moral law, that we are all subject to regardless of our cultural background. This moral order is part of the nature of God-created humans. We ignore this moral law at our own risk.

The following link goes into the subject in more detail.

Your absolutism amazes me.

There are two kinds of people of faith: those who talk to god, and those that god speak to. I'll assume you're the crazier of the two.

If there were an innate moral law, then why would we need the ten commandments?

people confuse easily, that's why.........10 commandments jsut laid out the basics.

If there were an innate moral law, I don't see a need for basics.

[Winchester]

Shady wrote: wannabe wrote: Shady wrote: I'm not worried, I know I've got a special spot in hell warming up for me. Right next to the lake of fire or so I'm told, very scenic.

oh, so you plan on working for the HMOs after med-school I see :wink:

Nope. I'm into research, I want to save lives. (obligatory *GASP*)

But no, I've been told I'm a damned soul enough times that I finally got the message. ;) And hey, it could be worse, they could send me to Montana for eternity. Man that'd be boring!

Don't be dissing Montana or you will get sent to hell.

[eynon]

Faet wrote: wannabe wrote: Faet wrote: CCD wrote: Faet wrote: I'll shoot this from a Judeo-Christian perspective, to keep things simple:

If God is all about love, why would he condemn otherwise morally acceptable non-believers to eternal damnation in hell?

He would not condemn otherwise morally acceptable people to damnation in hell. However.........

Faet wrote: It doesn't really make sense to me: he gave us free will to reason for ourselves, if we reasoned that he didn't provide sufficient evidence OR that the evidence he presented wasn't preserved by humans so that others could, too, see the so-called Truth, why should non-believers get screwed?

Since God does exist, if you have reasoned that He does not it is extremely difficult to create a truly moral existence by your own actions. A good moral conscience is built over a lifetime, and must be reinforced with study and prayer and sincere desire to attend to His will. We all have the natural instinct to follow the moral law that God has written in to our hearts, but we need guidance and practice always to stay focused.

The flaw in your logic is presuming free will can be used to reason moral choices for yourself. Moral choices are not subject to mental reasoning. There is a moral order, a moral law, that we are all subject to regardless of our cultural background. This moral order is part of the nature of God-created humans. We ignore this moral law at our own risk.

The following link goes into the subject in more detail.

Your absolutism amazes me.

There are two kinds of people of faith: those who talk to god, and those that god speak to. I'll assume you're the crazier of the two.

If there were an innate moral law, then why would we need the ten commandments?

people confuse easily, that's why.........10 commandments jsut laid out the basics.

If there were an innate moral law, I don't see a need for basics.

I don't think it's that strait forward, every person has their inner angles and demons, s**t can get confusing, more-over often we ignore our conscience and commit what we know(orthinkorfeel) is wrong(like me jerking off to Italian Bondage porn earlier :wink: ). Laws such as the 10 commandments reinforce that innate morality. Plus it's also prioritizes things pretty well too.......