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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 22873
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: toddytodd wrote: feederband wrote: John wrote: Sometimes an illness or handicap is for the better good for the person's soul.
Your killing me....
From my experience, this idea John hit upon (not trying to speak on his behalf by any means) is the belief of "...strife breeds strength and perseverance..." or the like.
I used to believe in it myself. Then I started to realize this can be used as justification for anything, and it seemed to loose its 'positive spin' so to speak.
Again, I suppose it is all in how you look at it
Trust me I was alot better of a person without all my illnesses....I think health is everything in life...I wish mine was better..
It ain't over yet. I'm still pulling for you. |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
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cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: I presume the vast majority of Christians think differently, but for those more strict Christians (for lack of a better word) such as queasy and John, what's your opinion?
I don't think there is anything wrong with going to a doctor when you are sick.
:lol:
Farming and grinding up babies to chase fool's gold is another matter.
Well that isn't exactly how it happens, in general <eeewwww>. Granted human beings are capable of just about anything.
But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself. |
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psholtz
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 23468
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: I presume the vast majority of Christians think differently, but for those more strict Christians (for lack of a better word) such as queasy and John, what's your opinion?
I don't think there is anything wrong with going to a doctor when you are sick.
:lol:
Farming and grinding up babies to chase fool's gold is another matter.
Fools gold? :roll:
If you had some of these diseases they are trying to cure with this research you would think different...
In the first place, *any* illness you contract is ultimately, in the global view, from a cause-and-effect standpoint, of your own making and invention. You *are* responsible for all your actions (and words and thoughts) and to the extent that those words, thoughts and actions are in violation of God's Law, to precisely that extent ye shall reap the tares of sin, whose wages are death itself.
It is recorded in Scripture that whenever the Master worked a "miracle" cure, his first commandment unto the newly healed was "go forth and sin no more"..
These are not light words, and they are not to be taken lightly.
The first cause of all illness is to be found within yourself.. in your lifestyle, in your diet, in your exercise patterns, in your frame of mind. Your mind has powerful influence over the body, but if you permit the mind to become lazy and degraded, your body will suffer accordingly (which in turn will manifest itself as disease). If you expect your local Murder, Inc. sales rep to be able to "cure" you just by prescribing you some new little pill that's been developed, then you're woefully misinformed and you are condemning yourself to a lifetime of disease and discomfort.
Secondly, even as the great Swiss sage Paracelsus taught, there is no such thing as an "uncurable" disease. To say that there is makes a mockery of God's Law and God's ordering of the Universe. That said, the Western practice of medicine today is hardly intended to actually find any "cures" for any diseases. 100 years ago cancer was virtually unknown, and when it did occur most forms could be treated as easily as the common cold. God has provided a Nature teaming w/ extremely powerful anti-carcinogenic herbs and minerals, and historically speaking these herbs and minerals formed a core component of peoples' diet and lifestyle.. Not perhaps out of any "conscious" choice, but just b/c people weren't eating processed, refined, additive-laden, irradiated, genetically modified foods the way they do today..
Even today, many forms of cancer can be cured as easily as a cold w/ the proper diet/herbs, etc. Dr. Glum is one person working in this field:
http://www.drglum.com/
Mary Elizabeth Croft has written extensively about this.. so have many others.
Now knowing that, you expect your local Murder, Inc. sales rep to be the guy you go to for "medical" advice on how to "cure" some disease? Today the cancer rate in the US is 1 in 2: 1 in 2 Americans is expected to develop *some* form of cancer at *some* point in their life.. In 30 years the rate will be 1 in 1. Doesn't seem to me like Murder Inc. is doing a very good job in the "War on Cancer".. Just like they're screwing up the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Terror", etc. These are all just state-run mafia rackets designed to (a) extort money from you; and (b) keep you in submission to the State until you die.. They have armies of actuaries in Washington calculating just how long Murder Inc. needs to keep you alive (in handicapped form, if need be) for you to pay your taxes to the State, etc, and be a "profitable venture" for the State. Once past that point, Murder Inc. swoops in and all the incentives that are in place in our "health care" system will be to kill you (can't have you costing the State in terms of health care expenditures, etc)
Stem cell research will do absolutely NOTHING to "save" you from any disease..
Stem cell research specifically is just a racket designed to extort $$ from you, on behalf of the wealthy, so they can discover and develop life-extension technologies for themselves and live to be 500 years old. Once they've taken your money from you, and once you've financed their life-extension technology *for* them, they will turn around and simply kill you.
Don't fall for these kind of absurd rackets.. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells. |
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feederband
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 3887
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: |
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psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: I presume the vast majority of Christians think differently, but for those more strict Christians (for lack of a better word) such as queasy and John, what's your opinion?
I don't think there is anything wrong with going to a doctor when you are sick.
:lol:
Farming and grinding up babies to chase fool's gold is another matter.
Fools gold? :roll:
If you had some of these diseases they are trying to cure with this research you would think different...
In the first place, *any* illness you contract is ultimately, in the global view, from a cause-and-effect standpoint, of your own making and invention. You *are* responsible for all your actions (and words and thoughts) and to the extent that those words, thoughts and actions are in violation of God's Law, to precisely that extent ye shall reap the tares of sin, whose wages are death itself.
It is recorded in Scripture that whenever the Master worked a "miracle" cure, his first commandment unto the newly healed was "go forth and sin no more"..
These are not light words, and they are not to be taken lightly.
The first cause of all illness is to be found within yourself.. in your lifestyle, in your diet, in your exercise patterns, in your frame of mind. Your mind has powerful influence over the body, but if you permit the mind to become lazy and degraded, your body will suffer accordingly (which in turn will manifest itself as disease). If you expect your local Murder, Inc. sales rep to be able to "cure" you just by prescribing you some new little pill that's been developed, then you're woefully misinformed and you are condemning yourself to a lifetime of disease and discomfort.
Secondly, even as the great Swiss sage Paracelsus taught, there is no such thing as an "uncurable" disease. To say that there is makes a mockery of God's Law and God's ordering of the Universe. That said, the Western practice of medicine today is hardly intended to actually find any "cures" for any diseases. 100 years ago cancer was virtually unknown, and when it did occur most forms could be treated as easily as the common cold. God has provided a Nature teaming w/ extremely powerful anti-carcinogenic herbs and minerals, and historically speaking these herbs and minerals formed a core component of peoples' diet and lifestyle.. Not perhaps out of any "conscious" choice, but just b/c people weren't eating processed, refined, additive-laden, irradiated, genetically modified foods the way they do today..
Even today, many forms of cancer can be cured as easily as a cold w/ the proper diet/herbs, etc. Dr. Glum is one person working in this field:
http://www.drglum.com/
Mary Elizabeth Croft has written extensively about this.. so have many others.
Now knowing that, you expect your local Murder, Inc. sales rep to be the guy you go to for "medical" advice on how to "cure" some disease? Today the cancer rate in the US is 1 in 2: 1 in 2 Americans is expected to develop *some* form of cancer at *some* point in their life.. In 30 years the rate will be 1 in 1. Doesn't seem to me like Murder Inc. is doing a very good job in the "War on Cancer".. Just like they're screwing up the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Terror", etc. These are all just state-run mafia rackets designed to (a) extort money from you; and (b) keep you in submission to the State until you die.. They have armies of actuaries in Washington calculating just how long Murder Inc. needs to keep you alive (in handicapped form, if need be) for you to pay your taxes to the State, etc, and be a "profitable venture" for the State. Once past that point, Murder Inc. swoops in and all the incentives that are in place in our "health care" system will be to kill you (can't have you costing the State in terms of health care expenditures, etc)
Stem cell research will do absolutely NOTHING to "save" you from any disease..
Stem cell research specifically is just a racket designed to extort $$ from you, on behalf of the wealthy, so they can discover and develop life-extension technologies for themselves and live to be 500 years old. Once they've taken your money from you, and once you've financed their life-extension technology *for* them, they will turn around and simply kill you.
Don't fall for these kind of absurd rackets..
Didn't take you for a conspiratorist...Especially since you belong to the biggest conspiracy of all time... :) |
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feederband
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 3887
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
Never will happen... |
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psholtz
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 23468
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
Never will happen...
It's already happening, in a million different ways.. |
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feederband
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 3887
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
Never will happen...
It's already happening, in a million different ways..
Can I have the link where they are farming babies.. |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
Never will happen...
I have learned not to use the word 'never' especially when it comes to what people are and aren't capable of. I don't think it would ever happen, nor do I believe it is happening currently (other than maybe a few sick individuals). However, banning something over what might, possibly happen doesn't seem to be right to me. I am sure many medical and scientific advancements through history has had the same and/or similar concerns voiced. I think we should look at the 'here and now' and do so responsibly. 'What if' thinking doesn't seem very responsible to me.
One thing for sure, I hope it never comes to 'farming babies'. |
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psholtz
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 23468
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
Never will happen...
It's already happening, in a million different ways..
Can I have the link where they are farming babies..
They harvest human organs these days, both in US hospitals and esp in China.. |
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feederband
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 3887
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
Never will happen...
It's already happening, in a million different ways..
Can I have the link where they are farming babies..
They harvest human organs these days, both in US hospitals and esp in China..
Can you give me a link on farming babies or not.... |
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feederband
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 3887
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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toddytodd wrote: feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
Never will happen...
I have learned not to use the word 'never' especially when it comes to what people are and aren't capable of. I don't think it would ever happen, nor do I believe it is happening currently (other than maybe a few sick individuals). However, banning something over what might, possibly happen doesn't seem to be right to me. I am sure many medical and scientific advancements through history has had the same and/or similar concerns voiced. I think we should look at the 'here and now' and do so responsibly. 'What if' thinking doesn't seem very responsible to me.
One thing for sure, I hope it never comes to 'farming babies'.
I am Athiest ...According to 2 billion people the I am without morals...Yet I would not be for farming babies...Science will never have to stoop to that level... |
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Anjire2
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
My understanding with the latest technique from Harvard is that the embryo does not need to be destroyed (farmed) now.
At the 16 or 32 cell stage they can take a few of these stem cells without causing any harm to the development. These stem cells then can be used for research and or growing replacement organs for the host with less likelyhood of rejection in the transplant.
Mind you, this is a developing technique and I am not sure how thoroughly it has been researched. It does mean that there is an alternative to "farming babies" and it would be more like drawing blood. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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feederband wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
Never will happen...
It will happen. Even if this technology is shown to be a pipe dream, from now on stem cells will be contained in every product you can think from. From male pattern baldness, to erectile dysfunction people won't want the product unless it has human babies in it.
Kind of like how people in the orient like rhino and tiger parts in their stuff. |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Anjire2 wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: But does 'farming babies' even happen? I haven't seen nor heard of any examples of it myself.
It will, when there is a demand for their cells.
My understanding with the latest technique from Harvard is that the embryo does not need to be destroyed (farmed) now.
At the 16 or 32 cell stage they can take a few of these stem cells without causing any harm to the development. These stem cells then can be used for research and or growing replacement organs for the host with less likelyhood of rejection in the transplant.
Mind you, this is a developing technique and I am not sure how thoroughly it has been researched. It does mean that there is an alternative to "farming babies" and it would be more like drawing blood.
I have also heard that cells can also be taken from the umbilical cord with the same results. I am not sure how true it is, however, if there is any truth to it, or in the technique you spoke of, there is no need to farm babies and no need not to support this medical endeavor from anyone. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| I see no problem with experimenting with stem cells extracted from umbilical cords. Apparently the cells are more stable, anyway. |
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Todd D.
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 3315
Location: Horned Frog Country
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: I have also heard that cells can also be taken from the umbilical cord with the same results. I am not sure how true it is, however, if there is any truth to it, or in the technique you spoke of, there is no need to farm babies and no need not to support this medical endeavor from anyone.
Stem cells from umbilical chords are not embryotic, there is not a significant percentage of the population concerned with such a thing. |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Todd D. wrote: Quote: I have also heard that cells can also be taken from the umbilical cord with the same results. I am not sure how true it is, however, if there is any truth to it, or in the technique you spoke of, there is no need to farm babies and no need not to support this medical endeavor from anyone.
Stem cells from umbilical chords are not embryotic, there is not a significant percentage of the population concerned with such a thing.
Quote: Stem cells from umbilical chords are not embryonic...
I don't recall anyone saying anything different.
Quote: ...there is not a significant percentage of the population concerned with such a thing.
The point is that umbilical cord's cell can replace embryonic cells for medical needs....... |
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Todd D.
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 3315
Location: Horned Frog Country
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: The point is that umbilical cord's cell can replace embryonic cells for medical needs.......
Your point has been brought up ad-nauseum, but people who want stem cells won't hear it. They believe that embryotic stem cells have greater potential. The issue of umbilical stem cells doesn't exist, because it is legal and federal funding for it has existed for years. |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Todd D. wrote: Quote: The point is that umbilical cord's cell can replace embryonic cells for medical needs.......
Your point has been brought up ad-nauseum, but people who want stem cells won't hear it. They believe that embryotic stem cells have greater potential. The issue of umbilical stem cells doesn't exist, because it is legal and federal funding for it has existed for years.
Regardless of which has greater potential (which is debatable), they are available and should be used. That said, it is beyond doubtful (unless one is paranoid and looking for a "cause") that 'baby farms' (as indicated previously in this thread) will ever exist. By all means, if someone wants to 'better' themselves with a self satisfying quest to ban federal funding for stem cells from "farmed" babies (or whatever the hip, Hollywood-type cause is), by all means please do - it is their time to waste.
I personally find it odd (maybe sad) that many people look for causes such as this to occupy their time and, in may cases, justify their faith. "Mountains out of mole hills" the saying goes.
But that is neither here nor there - only a personal observation. |
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