Political Crossfire Forums

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 18288

Superfly wrote: Yeah, right - like Houston was a beacon of peace and harmony before Katrina refugees came there. :lol:

The only time I have ever been robbed is when I was in Houston.

You guys are just pissed because you don't want New Orleans residents there. Where do you want them to go? Back to the Superdome?

I'm sorry, so sorry, that you were robbed in Houston. Horrible. I have close friends who've been kick-door robbed there too. Houston is the fourth largest city in the United States, and so being a crime victim is statistically higher than in smaller communities.

But I don't think you're being fair here. Houston opened its heart, its homes, its time, and its talents to help evacuees. So did my community 100 miles up the road, and we too have seen an insane rise in crime.

I don't think it's a question of where we want the evacuees to go--it's that wherever they are, we expect them to be good neighbors and to not commit crimes. It's really that simple.

Houstonians can speak for themselves. In my community, though, folks who arrived here destitute have been provided with homes, job training, jobs, public assistance, and private assistance from churches and synagogues. Vehicles. Clothing and tutoring for their kids. Unwanted babies adopted.

What we have seen in my community is that folks who want to work DO. Those who are concerned about their children and their education have been given a hand up. For many, the tragedy of Katrina has been a whole new lease on life, and so, so many folks have taken advantage of this "blessing-in-disguise."

The criminal element, meanwhile, has gone right back to doing what it always did--playing the system, expecting something for nothing, and committing opportunistic violent crime. Not the way to thank those who've extended a helping hand of friendship. And Houston did...and then some.

You don't replay those who've given you a place to stay by returning to rob them. If you do, you're a criminal, and an ungrateful one at that. I don't care what your race is or what your sad story is.

Superfly · Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 5243 Location: Tornado Alley

I agree that if you do the crime, you should do the time. I do. But if there is a 20% increase in population, then there should be an increase in police officers.

However, you can't judge everyone by the misdeeds of a few. Would Houstonions be ready to ship off all NO refugees because some are committing crimes?

I hope not. And while I feel your pain, I don't think you would be able to do that. The ACLU would be all over Houston like white on rice.

The fact remains that, criminals or not, they have to go somewhere, and Houston just happened to be the closest, large city that could accomodate the vast number of refugees.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 18288

Superfly wrote: I agree that if you do the crime, you should do the time. I do. But if there is a 20% increase in population, then there should be an increase in police officers.

However, you can't judge everyone by the misdeeds of a few. Would Houstonions be ready to ship off all NO refugees because some are committing crimes?

I hope not. And while I feel your pain, I don't think you would be able to do that. The ACLU would be all over Houston like white on rice.

The fact remains that, criminals or not, they have to go somewhere, and Houston just happened to be the closest, large city that could accomodate the vast number of refugees.

I don't think Houstonians want to ship off all NO evacuees...just the criminal element. And what city wouldn't?!

I don't think Houston is judging the many by the actions of the few. What remains to be defined, of course, is what constitutes "few" and "many."

And, let's be frank, those who were able to make other arrangements largely did so, leaving behind those who for whatever reason could not. The old, the disenfranchised, and the poor. Regardless of race. But let's also be frank in considering NO, whose mayor vowed to recreate a "chocolate city." Hey, Nagin said it, not I.

In the specific case of NO, the majority of the poor also happened to be black. This fact doesn't turn Houston's problem necessarily into a racial one. It's an entrenched-poverty/expectation of paternalistic government thing rampant in Louisiana among blacks and whites alike.

I would be appalled if somebody attributed Houston's crime problem necessarily to race. But it does happen to be inconvenient fact that most of the evacuees happened to be black. Let's not flip the coin and apologize for poor criminals who happen to be black. Their race isn't the problem; their criminal impulses are. And those criminal impulses don't really know any color because criminal impulses--the individual decision to do right or wrong--is solely each individual's.

Superfly · Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 5243 Location: Tornado Alley

Nagin is an idiot, and he can stand on his soapbox and rail against Bush and the US Government all he wants, but the fact remains that he dropped the ball, and is largely responsible for the problems the New Orleaneans faced during the hurricane.

el_hombre_de_Dios · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject:

pikers wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Really though, what's your point? Poor people commit more crime? I think we already knew that. Are you saying something else??

YES! He's saying that the reason why they're still poor is that it's hard to break out of that cycle, when you've been convinced by your blessed political party that the only solution is to keep your hands out and wait for the DNC manna.

The RNC, as anyone who pays attention knows, says just the opposite. The proof is in the stats that you want to lay at the feet of the white man; it needs to be laid at the feet of the Jackass.

Manna that only comes in the form of more empty promises and race baiting near election time.

Send in the clowns..I mean Jesse the race baiting bigot Jackson to stir up their passions. Screw any intellectual focus on the real issues. Anybody who ain't with us is an Uncle Tom..(yeah..such as Clarence Thomas, Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell..they're all 'house salves' of the GOP..yeah more like they're too smart not to see the manipulative racist BS put out by the 'enslave the black vote' DNC.)

Snake · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject:

Superfly wrote: Yeah, right - like Houston was a beacon of peace and harmony before Katrina refugees came there. :lol:

The only time I have ever been robbed is when I was in Houston.
Which is why we don't need anymore people coming here to start sh!t.

Quote: You guys are just pissed because you don't want New Orleans residents there. Where do you want them to go? Back to the Superdome? Wow, you really got me figured out, don't you :roll:
I'm pissed off because a large number of them come here, expect handout after handout, don't do anything to help themselves, then tell us that if they don't get more handouts, the crime rate's going to increase.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 18288

Superfly wrote: Nagin is an idiot, and he can stand on his soapbox and rail against Bush and the US Government all he wants, but the fact remains that he dropped the ball, and is largely responsible for the problems the New Orleaneans faced during the hurricane.

And yet, NO re-elected him. I remain stunned by that decision.

Angelicus · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 5145

Lumina wrote: Superfly wrote: Yeah, right - like Houston was a beacon of peace and harmony before Katrina refugees came there. :lol:

The only time I have ever been robbed is when I was in Houston.

You guys are just pissed because you don't want New Orleans residents there. Where do you want them to go? Back to the Superdome?

I'm sorry, so sorry, that you were robbed in Houston. Horrible. I have close friends who've been kick-door robbed there too. Houston is the fourth largest city in the United States, and so being a crime victim is statistically higher than in smaller communities.

But I don't think you're being fair here. Houston opened its heart, its homes, its time, and its talents to help evacuees. So did my community 100 miles up the road, and we too have seen an insane rise in crime.

I don't think it's a question of where we want the evacuees to go--it's that wherever they are, we expect them to be good neighbors and to not commit crimes. It's really that simple.

Houstonians can speak for themselves. In my community, though, folks who arrived here destitute have been provided with homes, job training, jobs, public assistance, and private assistance from churches and synagogues. Vehicles. Clothing and tutoring for their kids. Unwanted babies adopted.

What we have seen in my community is that folks who want to work DO. Those who are concerned about their children and their education have been given a hand up. For many, the tragedy of Katrina has been a whole new lease on life, and so, so many folks have taken advantage of this "blessing-in-disguise."

The criminal element, meanwhile, has gone right back to doing what it always did--playing the system, expecting something for nothing, and committing opportunistic violent crime. Not the way to thank those who've extended a helping hand of friendship. And Houston did...and then some.

You don't replay those who've given you a place to stay by returning to rob them. If you do, you're a criminal, and an ungrateful one at that. I don't care what your race is or what your sad story is.

Lumina thats interesting, my city opened its doors to evacuees too, and wow wouldn't you know it, the violent crime rates post katrina did go up here. I'm not saying that its the fault of Katrina refugees, because that could be entirely coincidental, but well things that make one go hmmmmm.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6505

let's get some facts straight here:

#1-fact-blacks tend to commit more crime
this is true after you control for factors like income

#2 fact-poor people tend to commit more crime
this is true after you control for factors like race

#3 fact- NO was one of the most criminal-ridden cities in the US before the hurricane. The murder rate was one of the highest in the US for like the past 5 years.

Thus, it is not surprising that if you take any random sample of people from NO and place them randomly in any city in the US, you will see the crime rate go up. In fact, you would be surprised if it did not.

So inclosing, there are only a few ways to decrease crime based on the facts above:
#1--magically change all the black people into non-black people, this is impossible
#2--make the people richer--this is impossible in the short-term
#3--hire a bunch of police officers to offer a beat down to all criminals and throw them in jail for a long time so they can't commit any more crimes

I'll take choice 3

Angelicus · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 5145

Kamel wrote: Superfly wrote: Yeah, right - like Houston was a beacon of peace and harmony before Katrina refugees came there. :lol:

The only time I have ever been robbed is when I was in Houston.
Which is why we don't need anymore people coming here to start sh!t.

Quote: You guys are just pissed because you don't want New Orleans residents there. Where do you want them to go? Back to the Superdome? Wow, you really got me figured out, don't you :roll:
I'm pissed off because a large number of them come here, expect handout after handout, don't do anything to help themselves, then tell us that if they don't get more handouts, the crime rate's going to increase.

I'm just wondering what the Great and Glorious leader would think of sending them to N. Korea untill they can get back on their feet? Can you ask him?

LOL

el_hombre_de_Dios · Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject:

ieatfood wrote: let's get some facts straight here:

#1-fact-blacks tend to commit more crime
this is true after you control for factors like income

#2 fact-poor people tend to commit more crime
this is true after you control for factors like race

#3 fact- NO was one of the most criminal-ridden cities in the US before the hurricane. The murder rate was one of the highest in the US for like the past 5 years.

Thus, it is not surprising that if you take any random sample of people from NO and place them randomly in any city in the US, you will see the crime rate go up. In fact, you would be surprised if it did not.

So inclosing, there are only a few ways to decrease crime based on the facts above:
#1--magically change all the black people into non-black people, this is impossible
#2--make the people richer--this is impossible in the short-term
#3--hire a bunch of police officers to offer a beat down to all criminals and throw them in jail for a long time so they can't commit any more crimes

I'll take choice 3

I'll take none of the above. We need true social reform to strike at the roots of the multi-faceted and comlpex problems concerning the racial divide. But what does the 'enslave the black vote' DNC do about it? Nothing but spew out more race baiting divisive rhetoric.

Again I'll quote Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas"
Quote: "It pains me deeply, or more deeply than any of you can imagine, to be perceived by so many members of my race as doing them harm. All the sacrifice, all the long hours of preparation were to help, not to hurt. But what hurts more, much more, is the amount of time and attention spent on manufactured controversies and media sideshows when so many problems cry out for constructive attention.
I have come here today not in anger or to anger, though my mere presence has been sufficient, obviously, to anger some. Nor have I come to defend my views, but rather to assert my right to think for myself, to refuse to have my ideas assigned to me as though I was an intellectual slave because I'm black. I come to state that I'm a man, free to think for myself and do as I please. I've come to assert that I am a judge and I will not be consigned the unquestioned opinions of others. But even more than that, I have come to say that isn't it time to move on? Isn't it time to realize that being angry with me solves no problems? Isn't it time to acknowledge that the problem of race has defied simple solutions and that not one of us, not a single one of us can lay claim to the solution? Isn't it time that we respect ourselves and each other as we have demanded respect from others? Isn't it time to ignore those whose sole occupation is sowing seeds of discord and animus? That is self-hatred. Isn't it time to continue diligently to search for lasting solutions. I believe that the time has come today. God bless each of you, and may God keep you."

Snake · Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject:

Angelicus wrote: I'm just wondering what the Great and Glorious leader would think of sending them to N. Korea untill they can get back on their feet? Can you ask him?

LOL They will be used exclusively in the first wave attack on S Korea.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 18288

Angelicus wrote: Lumina wrote: Superfly wrote: Yeah, right - like Houston was a beacon of peace and harmony before Katrina refugees came there. :lol:

The only time I have ever been robbed is when I was in Houston.

You guys are just pissed because you don't want New Orleans residents there. Where do you want them to go? Back to the Superdome?

I'm sorry, so sorry, that you were robbed in Houston. Horrible. I have close friends who've been kick-door robbed there too. Houston is the fourth largest city in the United States, and so being a crime victim is statistically higher than in smaller communities.

But I don't think you're being fair here. Houston opened its heart, its homes, its time, and its talents to help evacuees. So did my community 100 miles up the road, and we too have seen an insane rise in crime.

I don't think it's a question of where we want the evacuees to go--it's that wherever they are, we expect them to be good neighbors and to not commit crimes. It's really that simple.

Houstonians can speak for themselves. In my community, though, folks who arrived here destitute have been provided with homes, job training, jobs, public assistance, and private assistance from churches and synagogues. Vehicles. Clothing and tutoring for their kids. Unwanted babies adopted.

What we have seen in my community is that folks who want to work DO. Those who are concerned about their children and their education have been given a hand up. For many, the tragedy of Katrina has been a whole new lease on life, and so, so many folks have taken advantage of this "blessing-in-disguise."

The criminal element, meanwhile, has gone right back to doing what it always did--playing the system, expecting something for nothing, and committing opportunistic violent crime. Not the way to thank those who've extended a helping hand of friendship. And Houston did...and then some.

You don't replay those who've given you a place to stay by returning to rob them. If you do, you're a criminal, and an ungrateful one at that. I don't care what your race is or what your sad story is.

Lumina thats interesting, my city opened its doors to evacuees too, and wow wouldn't you know it, the violent crime rates post katrina did go up here. I'm not saying that its the fault of Katrina refugees, because that could be entirely coincidental, but well things that make one go hmmmmm.

Well, I will say it: The increase in crime in my community is directly attributable to the post-hurricane evacuees.

lovebush · Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 1147

JoeBen81 wrote: Really though, what's your point? Poor people commit more crime? I think we already knew that. Are you saying something else??

Oh!? Was this about pour people?

lovebush · Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 1147

Alizard wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Really though, what's your point? Poor people commit more crime? I think we already knew that. Are you saying something else??

Yes, he's saying that the poor rabble should be confined to specific areas of the country so they don't offend or annoy the really good people.

And if they get out of their areas, they should be shipped back so they will know "their place".

your reading comprehension s*cks!

lovebush · Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 1147

Alizard wrote: lucidnightmare wrote: Alizard wrote: lucidnightmare wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Really though, what's your point? Poor people commit more crime? I think we already knew that. Are you saying something else??

Black poor people commit more crime? Based on prison polulations, they certainly get convicted of more crimes.... and sentenced to longer terms.

But, everybody knows tht cocaine in the form of a rock is Satan's mark, and anybody who uses it should rot in jail...... yet cocaine in powder form is the siren's song which lures good men to the dark side.... and they must be saved by rehab, not prison.

It's not just crack.They are convicted of other crimes and commit them at higher rates.It's not a conspiracy to put black people in jail.

No, it's not a conspiracy, it's just racism. Look at the charges brought and sentences handed down for similar crimes and it becomes clear. The "powder" versus "crack" cocaine is just on example.

It's the same drug, it's a felony..... but the sentences are vastly different for use.

Let a former junkie enlighten you a little. the crack down on crack in the ghetto as apposed to the pursuit of the more affluent use of cocaine. has little to do with race. its much easier to catch a guy buying or selling small bindles on a street corner or from a house that has more traffic than grand central station. A guy hustling quarters and dimes cant be delivering every bag he sells he has to stand out for his customers to come to him. the guy selling to the affluent can deliver a T or an 8 ball to a guys home or condo and looks like a nice guy who came for a visit and no one knows anything is going on. Its well known in the drug trade, that if you can develop customers who only buy larger amounts you are far less likely to get busted. the other difference is the affluent aren't knocking off liquor stores and committing violent car jackings ect. ect. to pay for their habit. Who would you rather see taken of the street? the guy who has a three figure salary who gets high and hurts none but himself(except of course for the residual effects of the drug trade) or the guy who has to mug someone daily to get his fix? I would say that its far more racist to let that ghetto addict keep victimizing people. Having said that I think the government would be $ ahead if it offered more in the way of treatment to addicts.
Part of the problem is this dancing around the political correctness. If I ( a white guy) dare to bring up these problems in the black community. then it is assumed Im a racist. cheap insulting comments like have already been used in this thread start to fly and that prevents a rational discussion from taking place. and all the while people are suffering and being killed in our great country. So how about some rational exchange of Ideas about what the problem truly is and then maybe someone in that environment , might think of some ideas that might help some people.

Snake · Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:19 am Post subject:

You and I both know that's never going to happen.

lovebush · Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 1147

Kamel wrote: You and I both know that's never going to happen.

Actualy Im an optomist. I think eventualy people will realise that something has to change and diologe is the best way to figure out what that something is.

el_hombre_de_Dios · Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject:

lovebush wrote: Kamel wrote: You and I both know that's never going to happen.

Actualy Im an optomist. I think eventualy people will realise that something has to change and diologe is the best way to figure out what that something is.

For the sake of all those innocent children who are victimized, and then acculturated by the regressive anti-sociality of such things as 'gangsta rap' with its demeaning depictions of reality (eg. women as b!tches and whoes) the 'victimization' ideation (that black people are victims of white repression and not responsible for their own self determination) that I hope does change.

But the truly sad part is that reform must come from within the black community. And being nowhere near a large black population center I have never seen a black leader who is staunchly DNC rise up and strongly demand self reform. The Democrats fully assist in propagating the ideations of victimization, and even foster the lunacy of such things as 'ebonics' as culturally acceptable. What idiocy! The whole thing reeks of continued wanton using of the black people for political ends. Keep them stupid and unassuming; as it is the only way we can ensure their continued voting allegiance as a lock step, jackbooted mindless hoard; a few race baiting references spewed out over the media airwaves ensures another cycle of millions of votes being cast only one way: to a total abrogation of their real political power. Instead the DNC feeds them rhetorical racist diatribe, and intellectual poison to ensure they remain the political slaves of a party that uses them as if they were a means to an end only and not living human beings.

Angelicus · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 5145

How did this suddenly become a racial issue?

I am quite certain that there are whites, blacks, asians, and every other color under the rainbow that were displaced by katrina, and that are out there comitting crimes in the cities that were willing to host them.

The real problem is, the complete lack of action and planning (yet again I might add) by their own local governments too entice and bring them back too you know, the "chocolate city".