Political Crossfire Forums

[Ardent]

lilwolf wrote: I would say that gun control by a dictator worked pretty well. Somewhere between 6 and 12 million jews are dead and millions all over europe do to dictators and their gun controls.



The Russians had guns and a standing army, and over
20 million of them died.

[The Comrade]

Ardent wrote:

The article suggests violent crime is rising and FBI Figures
back this up. 17,000 murders and 80,000 gun injuries are
not exactly low level.


no one believes the media until it says something they agree with :roll:

[Ardent]

The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote:

The article suggests violent crime is rising and FBI Figures
back this up. 17,000 murders and 80,000 gun injuries are
not exactly low level.


no one believes the media until it says something they agree with :roll:

What nobody believes the Police and FBI Figures. :lol:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/columnists/sfl-phoward19oct19,0,3411643.column

Btw Yugoslavia isn't a country any more.

[The Comrade]

Ardent wrote: What nobody believes the Police and FBI Figures. :lol:

your figure show numbers. that BS articles hsows a "rise" in crime. i never said i didn't believe in the FBI figures. but that doesn't show anything. all it is is numbers. and a single set of numbers at that.

america has a population of 300million people. oh wow amazing what does this help prove? nothing.

now if i said that america had a population of, lets say, 100 million in 1920 it would mean something. it would show a significant increase in the population.

the same goes for your figures.

17,000 murders doesn't mean jack squat if you don't have atleast a second number backing up what you're saying.

Ardent wrote: Btw Yugoslavia isn't a country any more.

thanks for that. you must really be smart. i mean, how anyone could know that yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore just goes to show that they're a genius. you're like steven hawking you're so smart. god damn get off the f***ing internet and answer lifes questions. this is clearly a waste of your time.

[superskippy]

Quote: I suspect that is an absolute lie and I bet you 50 quid you cannot come up with any reliable statistics proving that as a fact........

Your talking about Crime I am not. In the last decade 1989-2000 we had the wars in Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo and still strife to this day. The small gunbattles in Slovenia, the war that broke out in Macedonia, the people killed by gunmen in terrorist attacks by the ETA and IRA among others, and another 1,000 or so killed in Roumania, the wars in Chechnya, as well as further internal issues in many Europeon countries.

Europe has problams of it's own that America does not have that also add up to a massive amount of deaths, that was my point.

[Ardent]

The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote: What nobody believes the Police and FBI Figures. :lol:

your figure show numbers. that BS articles hsows a "rise" in crime. i never said i didn't believe in the FBI figures. but that doesn't show anything. all it is is numbers. and a single set of numbers at that.

america has a population of 300million people. oh wow amazing what does this help prove? nothing.

now if i said that america had a population of, lets say, 100 million in 1920 it would mean something. it would show a significant increase in the population.

the same goes for your figures.

17,000 murders doesn't mean jack squat if you don't have atleast a second number backing up what you're saying.

Ardent wrote: Btw Yugoslavia isn't a country any more.

thanks for that. you must really be smart. i mean, how anyone could know that yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore just goes to show that they're a genius. you're like steven hawking you're so smart. god damn get off the f***ing internet and answer lifes questions. this is clearly a waste of your time.

Per Capita America has a far higher murder rate than
any EU Country and far higher gun crime, EU countries
don't have any where near the same rate for murder
and gun crime.

I am aware that Yugoslavia doesn't exist, which is sadly
more than can be said for you. As for your angry little
outburst it's hardly surprising given the violent nature
of many of your countrymen.

[The Comrade]

Ardent wrote: Per Capita America has a far higher murder rate than
any EU Country and far higher gun crime.

and the crime rate is falling in america, something which you have yet to disprove

Ardent wrote: I am aware that Yugoslavia doesn't exist, which is sadly
more than cen be said for you. As for your angry little
outburst it's hardly surprising given the violent nature
of many of your countrymen.


nice blanket statement.

[Ardent]

The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote: Per Capita America has a far higher murder rate than
any EU Country and far higher gun crime.

and the crime rate is falling in america, something which you have yet to disprove

Ardent wrote: I am aware that Yugoslavia doesn't exist, which is sadly
more than cen be said for you. As for your angry little
outburst it's hardly surprising given the violent nature
of many of your countrymen.


nice blanket statement.

Nice outburst.

Perhaps you can get someone to read my links to you,
as you obviously have a problem understanding them.

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/40580.aspx

[The Comrade]

Ardent wrote:


Nice outburst.

Perhaps you can get someone to read my links to you,
as you obviously have a problem understanding them.

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/40580.aspx


and that's a year old statistic.

Which according to you means it isn't valid.

[Ardent]

The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote:


Nice outburst.

Perhaps you can get someone to read my links to you,
as you obviously have a problem understanding them.

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/40580.aspx


and that's a year old statistic.

Which according to you means it isn't valid.

No it's not if you had bothered to read it properly it
includes the latest figures for 2006.

[thefranzkafkafront]

Ardent wrote: lilwolf wrote: I would say that gun control by a dictator worked pretty well. Somewhere between 6 and 12 million jews are dead and millions all over europe do to dictators and their gun controls.



The Russians had guns and a standing army, and over
20 million of them died.

Lovely, you see the important thing there is that your average joe russian wasunt allowed guns because he could use them to harm his goverment.

Standing armies taint got nowght to do with it.

[thefranzkafkafront]

Ardent wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Ardent wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Ardent wrote: What happened in Germany in the 1930's was nothing to
do with gun control.

The population by and large supported Hitler and fought for him,
and most of the population were given guns as part of the
German Armed Forces, including children in the Hitler Youth,
there was no shortage of guns.

What was going to happen if they had more guns, were the small
Jewish population going to out fight the massive German population.

Where the German people going to rise against Hitler and the
invasion of Poland by their own army, I hardly think so.

As for Americas gun deaths, they are more than the equivalent of
fighting a major war every year and more Americans die at home
due to guns than have died in either the Iraq or Afghanistan Campaigns
and so called war on terror.

And how could people effectively fight hitler without guns? There were people, the Socail Democrats, groups of students and of course German Jews.

They had no ability to fight back and so they had to run.


Then theres other countries like Italy, Poland, Hungary, the Balitic states, Russia of course, Vichy France.

Then post war, theres the entire of the warsaw pact.

I can go on if you want me to.

A district patern here is that during the rise of the ogliarchy of these states to power a move allways executed was the removal of arms from the general population and the concentration of them in their own civilian supporters then turned into offical arms of state apparatus.

Im not saying gun control 'brought' any of these people or parties to power, however gun control was a meathod all of these parties insitutied in order to reduce the threat of domestic resistance.

The Nazi Party came to power in Germany by democratic means,
and any resistance was not wide scale. Economic Depression and
national decline were the main reason for the population turning
to Hitler.

As for the Jews and others, they only made up a tiny proportion of
the population, who by and large supported Hitler.

6 of one and half dozen of the other. In a nutshell, the Nazi's did again a lot of power via the ballot box, but a lot of this was suplimented by the Militant powers of the S.A, they openly crushed oposition from Communists and trade unionists (large groups who did dirclty oppose them) with physical force and arms.

But thats not the point, im not debating gun control put them in power, im saying gun control was a device they used to keep the ability of defence and offence firmly and only within there own party.

There is often so little oposition in totalitarian states becuause without arms they cannot be opposed.

Quote:
Whilst the Old Warsaw Pact and Eastern Europe had gun controls,
do did Western European Democracies and other democratic
countries around the world.
Uhuh, but did you read my point. Gun control is used as a method of control by tyrical regimes. Thats an emperical fact.

Guns are controlled in democracies, as well as Totalitarian Regimes
and I don't recall seeing massive shoot outs on the streets of Berlin
when the old guard were over thrown and the wall finally came down.

Indeed in many cases it is guns that put totalitarian states in to
power in the first place, remember the Russian Revolution of
1917.

Britain set up a Home Guard during World War 2 and armed the
civilians with military weapons, however the Home Guard was
disbanded and the weapons returned after WW2. It has never
been British policy to keep a large standing army, we instead
kept a large navy, and there are not too many Naval Dictatorships
in the world. :lol:

The British Army swears no allegiance to the Goverment,
it swears allegiance to the monarch (Queen Elizabeth) and
many regiments also have different colonel in chiefs
such as the Duke of Edinburgh, Duke of York, even the
Queen of Denmark (PWRR)

As for many old Communist Countries such as Russia and
inparticuarly Moscow, the populance often look back on the
good old days of communism. When the streets were safe.
Since the end of communism Moscow and other Russian Cities
have seen an explosion of gun deaths.

Urg you like your tagents don't you boyo.

Riddle me this batman, do totalitarian states use gun control as a method of preventing rebellion.

Yes or no question.

[thundertaker]

superskippy wrote: Quote: I suspect that is an absolute lie and I bet you 50 quid you cannot come up with any reliable statistics proving that as a fact........

Your talking about Crime I am not. In the last decade 1989-2000 we had the wars in Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo and still strife to this day. The small gunbattles in Slovenia, the war that broke out in Macedonia, the people killed by gunmen in terrorist attacks by the ETA and IRA among others, and another 1,000 or so killed in Roumania, the wars in Chechnya, as well as further internal issues in many Europeon countries.

Europe has problams of it's own that America does not have that also add up to a massive amount of deaths, that was my point.

You realise what century we are living in now? I'm also pretty sure Chechnya is in Asia.

It's funny you should mention the IRA. Despite the reputation for gun violence in Northern Ireland. Even at the height of the troubles, the murder rate in Northern Irish cities never reached the same heights as it did in Detroit....

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

Of course, it's ludicrous to compare the murder rates of nations on the fringeds of civilisation like those in the Balkans or the Eastern Europe, when it is Western European nations who are reasonable comparisons.
We could of course lump the US in with the whole americas in the same way, which would include countries like Jamaica and Brazil making the comparison even worse......

[britboy]

The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote: What nobody believes the Police and FBI Figures. :lol:

your figure show numbers. that BS articles hsows a "rise" in crime. i never said i didn't believe in the FBI figures. but that doesn't show anything. all it is is numbers. and a single set of numbers at that.

america has a population of 300million people. oh wow amazing what does this help prove? nothing.

now if i said that america had a population of, lets say, 100 million in 1920 it would mean something. it would show a significant increase in the population.

the same goes for your figures.

17,000 murders doesn't mean jack squat if you don't have atleast a second number backing up what you're saying.

Ardent wrote: Btw Yugoslavia isn't a country any more.

thanks for that. you must really be smart. i mean, how anyone could know that yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore just goes to show that they're a genius. you're like steven hawking you're so smart. god damn get off the f***ing internet and answer lifes questions. this is clearly a waste of your time.

Jees comrade -- just becuase you got your a** handed to you doesn't mean you need to have a hissy fit!

You lost the argument .. get over it, move on! Otherwise you'll just embarrass youself. More.

[The Comrade]

britboy wrote:

Jees comrade -- just becuase you got your a** handed to you doesn't mean you need to have a hissy fit!

You lost the argument .. get over it, move on! Otherwise you'll just embarrass youself. More.

eh?

[superskippy]

Quote: You realise what century we are living in now? I'm also pretty sure Chechnya is in Asia.

Yes and I said the last decade, this decade is half over. As for Chechnya it depends on where you draw the line with Russia most people draw it west of the Urals extending to Iceland but if you want to draw it as part of Asia I understand that making sense as well.

Quote: It's funny you should mention the IRA. Despite the reputation for gun violence in Northern Ireland. Even at the height of the troubles, the murder rate in Northern Irish cities never reached the same heights as it did in Detroit....

Ok Detriot was or perhaps still is one extremely screwed up city.

Quote: Of course, it's ludicrous to compare the murder rates of nations on the fringeds of civilisation like those in the Balkans or the Eastern Europe, when it is Western European nations who are reasonable comparisons.

Why arent they part of Europe? Plenty of these nations are members of the EU or have been selected as canidate nations for the EU. Western Europe has it's own heavy death tolls as well it's just they are more weighted towards bombings.

Quote: We could of course lump the US in with the whole americas in the same way, which would include countries like Jamaica and Brazil making the comparison even worse......

If you include Central America and North America against all of Europe including central and eastern Europe then it is still balanced in total deaths against Europe. But werent we discussing America in particular?

[Blinky]

The Comrade wrote: britboy wrote:

Jees comrade -- just becuase you got your a** handed to you doesn't mean you need to have a hissy fit!

You lost the argument .. get over it, move on! Otherwise you'll just embarrass youself. More.

eh?

Its not a cryptic message, Comrade.

[The Comrade]

Blinky wrote:
Its not a cryptic message, Comrade.

i'm wondering where my argument was destroyed and how i embaressed myself.

[airo]

The Comrade wrote: Blinky wrote:
Its not a cryptic message, Comrade.

i'm wondering where my argument was destroyed and how i embaressed myself.

No worries. They tend to just go "NAH NAH NAH, YOU LOSE!" whenever they get tired of going up against logic.

[Blinky]

The Comrade wrote: Blinky wrote:
Its not a cryptic message, Comrade.

i'm wondering where my argument was destroyed and how i embaressed myself.

Britboy was talking about hissy fits. You seem to be very touchy when it comes to people talking about your apparent confusion over your country/location thingy.

Remember when I mentioned it? I got this:

Comrade the Comic Genius wrote: "And thanks for pointing that out to me proffesor geography. i had no idea that zagreb wasn't in yugoslavia. you should teach at the college of smart for being so intelligent. like i have no idea how you could possibly know something like that. you shouldn't be posting on here, you should be running for mr. smart of the smart galaxy in the smart universe."

My, very touchy indeed.
Unless you're not confused about recent European history and its all some sort of wildly controversial tongue-in-cheek political in-joke designed to have people point it out so you can exercise that brilliant sarcasm muscle of yours?
Damn, I feel like such a fool now that I realised I fell for the trap of pointing it out. Damn you comrade and your razor sharp wit.