Political Crossfire Forums

[Mikate8]

Lucky Luke you haven't proved anything. What makes a guy in wisonsin the same as some guy in scotland?

You gave me one example too. That doesn't make our cultures anywhere near the same. So you haven't proved anything.

Bonobo you keep ranting, please stop.
If scottish did have looser gun laws then what? Life would probably be the same as long as scotland didn't hand guns to criminals. There you go. There would still probably be assault too since those commiting it all the time wouldn't be legally allowed to own a gun. Hey how about that? You act like murderers in our country can just walk into any store and ask for an arsenal.

[Bonobo]

Mikate8 wrote: Lucky Luke you haven't proved anything. What makes a guy in wisonsin the same as some guy in scotland?

You gave me one example too. That doesn't make our cultures anywhere near the same. So you haven't proved anything.

Bonobo you keep ranting, please stop.
If scottish did have looser gun laws then what? Life would probably be the same as long as scotland didn't hand guns to criminals. There you go. There would still probably be assault too since those commiting it all the time wouldn't be legally allowed to own a gun. Hey how about that? You act like murderers in our country can just walk into any store and ask for an arsenal.

Excuse me..? Now you talk like criminals in America have trouble gettings guns..? I won't bother replying to that...

Instead I will take your comparison of Scotland and run with it. What if there was looser gun control, and more people were armed and, as you said, violence would still be present. What happens when those people meet in the street now?

And who do you think is more likely to go and get a gun as soon as they are legalized, an old defenceless woman who can hardly afford her heating bill on hr pension or a criminal..? How exactly do you suggest that gun legalisation would make Scotland safer if violence will as u said always exist?

And before you say 'I don't care about Scotland', the same parallel applies exactly to America. It is due to the fact that guns aren't even looked at as out of the ordinary objects that 17 year old kids who hang on the streets think it's not a big deal to carry one. Surely you apprecaite if guns were not so widespread criminals would find it far harder to get their hands on guns, just like in countries where there is tight gun control..?


And then we have the best bit. 'So what if we have looser gun controls, they wouldn't give them to criminals anyway'. I'll assume you can see the blindly obvious logic that completely contradicts this and are simply replying like this cause you can't think of anything else to say, but I'll point it out in case you genuinely have missed it:

Criminals will get the guns anyway. They get them nowadays. Except if they are widespread items that are considered every day things, the number of criminals carrying them would go up from 2% to 80%. Again pretty incredible you can claim that looser gun control wouldn't mean more guns for criminals, and therefore more fatal shootings. Hell, they don't even need to do anything out of the ordinary. Ask someone in a bar to buy his, ask their brother who hasn't gota criminal record, I creally could go on... Oh look, I have.

[Mikate8]

I don't care about scotland.

If someone gives guns to criminals just throw them in jail, that simple and its not impossible. I don't care about europe at all either, just a very select few, they know who they are.

All i've said after not trying to argue with past arguements because they failed was that Europe and America are two totally different places. We have our guns and theyre going to stay no matter what. Nothing you say or argue against that statement will come close to proving to anyone that America will eventually be rid of its firearms.

[Bonobo]

Every comparison I have made was based one one you created...... If you do not care about Scotland do not quote Scottish crime figures in support of your argument.

[Mikate8]

I only posted quotes on scotland once, and yes I don't care much for it. Just like how Lucky Luke doesn't care for our crime ridden, cesspool of a country, but yet he still posts many quotes and statistics. Even though he might say he cares about America, you, I and everyone else on this forum knows he doesn't. So don't forget to tell him not to quote anything about America anymore.

[Bonobo]

Unfortunately with America's current foreign policy everybody has to care about America, more importantly he has never suggested he doesn't, u merely cited facts randomly then said u didnt care about them as they in fact contradicted your point.


Please try and make it. What do you think would happen in say gang wars or bar fights in America if guns weren't widespread?

I apprecaite at the moment they are, at least in some states. However this of course is no argument for not trying to change it. I'm genuinely interested to hear the arguments for loosening gun control in the interest of public safety.

What do you think will happen to murder rates? To police mortality rates? If only the top level criminals, the hardcore if you will, have access to guns, rather than every 'footsoldier'?

[Mikate8]

Well loosening gun control in scotland doesn't sound like a good idea at all. Buncha hooligans over there beating on each other all the time.

I didn't say I didn't care about the facts England, I just said I don't care about scotland.

Also our foreign policy huh? Did Bush drag England and the rest of Europe into Iraq kicking and screaming?

Hmm, bar fights and gang wars without guns. Well bar fights don't usually involve guns because its called a bar fight not a shootout between some drunks.
A gangwar? Well there would still be gangs fighting even without guns. But let them fight I don't care if they hurt each other, just innocent people.

The simple reason of loosening gun control for public safety is so that guns are easily available to law abiding citizens.

If there is a gun control law out there who is going to follow and abide by it? The criminal or the law abiding citizen? If you say criminal you probably live in the UK

Gun control laws don't stop crime just encourage it.

Oh yea i'm sure the murder rates would fall and everything if there were less guns but its kinda late now seeing as theres over 200,000,000 guns in our country. Don't forget ones that get in illegally, remember we're not an isolated island surrounded by water. We have land borders with other countries where people can smuggle guns in.

Yea there would be less criminals using guns if there weren't so many around. But thats not the case here.
What you're asking is for there to be stricter laws in owning weapons. How does that help someone who doesn't want to be a victim in their own home or when theyre walking down the street?

Again and again everyone thinks the criminals follow laws that control the use of firearms.

[Bonobo]

Mikate8 wrote: Well loosening gun control in scotland doesn't sound like a good idea at all. Buncha hooligans over there beating on each other all the time.

I didn't say I didn't care about the facts England, I just said I don't care about scotland.

Also our foreign policy huh? Did Bush drag England and the rest of Europe into Iraq kicking and screaming?

Hmm, bar fights and gang wars without guns. Well bar fights don't usually involve guns because its called a bar fight not a shootout between some drunks.
A gangwar? Well there would still be gangs fighting even without guns. But let them fight I don't care if they hurt each other, just innocent people.

The simple reason of loosening gun control for public safety is so that guns are easily available to law abiding citizens.

If there is a gun control law out there who is going to follow and abide by it? The criminal or the law abiding citizen? If you say criminal you probably live in the UK

Gun control laws don't stop crime just encourage it.

Oh yea i'm sure the murder rates would fall and everything if there were less guns but its kinda late now seeing as theres over 200,000,000 guns in our country. Don't forget ones that get in illegally, remember we're not an isolated island surrounded by water. We have land borders with other countries where people can smuggle guns in.

Yea there would be less criminals using guns if there weren't so many around. But thats not the case here.
What you're asking is for there to be stricter laws in owning weapons. How does that help someone who doesn't want to be a victim in their own home or when theyre walking down the street?

Again and again everyone thinks the criminals follow laws that control the use of firearms.


The majority of your posts are based on 'Do you think criminals obey laws'?

Do you think they obey them in England? Or Europe? Nobody is suggesting they do, you're merely trying change peoples arguments to one you can deal with.

What people are stating is that criminals in England can't get their hands on a gun unless they are a 'hardcore' criminal, as oppose to America where 13 year olds seem to have no problem. By making guns not an every day item, you VASTY ddecrease the number of criminals carrying them, and therefore decrease the number of deaths we see.

[Mikate8]

The only reason a 13 would be able to get a gun is by stupid parents.

Ok you say not making guns an everyday problem would decrease the number of criminals carrying them.

Well it would stop more criminals from getting guns if you had a plan to get rid of all the illegal ones because in our country you can't buy a gun legally with a criminal background.
Whats your plan to get the illegal guns off the streets? It might not be impossible.
So a gun ban that would just leave guns on the black market and the criminals that already possessed guns before. Only the "hardcore" criminals can get them now, but it doesn't really matter here in America because we already have so many guns in circulation.

What does a hardcore criminal do anyway? What kind of crimes does he commit?

And it would decrease deaths like in the UK? Even though the murder rate was low in the first place before gun bans?

And its also a fact that the way the UK and US police forces report crime is totally different.

Looks to me like nobody should ever compare US and UK crimerates anymore (no accusing you of anything so don't get so frustrated)

Well a gun ban would get a lot of law abiding citizen's guns out of circulation and destroyed. But the criminals would still have theres and I don't know what that means. Looks like gun control in the US will never work unless all the illegal guns are confiscated first. (not saying that bonobo said anything about gun control in the US and or working in that said country, just saying a simple fact that gun control will only help the public when the illegal guns are taken away first)

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Lucky Luke you haven't proved anything. What makes a guy in wisonsin the same as some guy in scotland?

You gave me one example too. That doesn't make our cultures anywhere near the same. So you haven't proved anything.

Bonobo you keep ranting, please stop.
If scottish did have looser gun laws then what? Life would probably be the same as long as scotland didn't hand guns to criminals. There you go. There would still probably be assault too since those commiting it all the time wouldn't be legally allowed to own a gun. Hey how about that? You act like murderers in our country can just walk into any store and ask for an arsenal.

Our cultures are not the same but they are so close that one outside them could consider them one.

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[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: I only posted quotes on scotland once, and yes I don't care much for it. Just like how Lucky Luke doesn't care for our crime ridden, cesspool of a country, but yet he still posts many quotes and statistics. Even though he might say he cares about America, you, I and everyone else on this forum knows he doesn't. So don't forget to tell him not to quote anything about America anymore.

I say I do care for America and American people, what give you the right to tell others what I think about America and it's people when I have always been very clear in this forum about my feelings for America?

I quote whatever I want when I debate gun control, this is the nature of this forum.

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[Mikate8]

Our cultures are totally different LL.

Well then, it looks like i'm gonna use any kind of statistics and quotes I want even though certain british people don't want me too just cause I don't like a certain country. I guess they can shove tea and crumpets up their rear.

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Our cultures are totally different LL.

Well then, it looks like i'm gonna use any kind of statistics and quotes I want even though certain british people don't want me too just cause I don't like a certain country. I guess they can shove tea and crumpets up their rear.

I proved you wrong Mikate8, not only the British and American culture are very similar if not the same but they are a big part of our global culture.

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[Mikate8]

Okay everyone, if anyone else thinks American and British culture are very similar, please tell me why and such.

[thundertaker]

Mikate8 wrote: Okay everyone, if anyone else thinks American and British culture are very similar, please tell me why and such.

They are pretty damn similar compared to most other cultures.......

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Okay everyone, if anyone else thinks American and British culture are very similar, please tell me why and such.

There is a name for it:

The Anglo-American Culture

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