Political Crossfire Forums

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Well robberies and assault aren't that much different and I doubt i'm gonna get raped anytime soon and since murders are below .04 per thousand, then i'm pretty much safe in America, I guess a teensy bit less than England, but at least I didn't have to worry about Hitler

Well, robberies and assault aren't that much different despite the claims here that guns are great tools to stop robberies and assaults and I doubt you are going to get raped anytime soon with someone with a gun because rapists usually don't use guns but have you noticed how guns in America are not stopping rapes happening at all?

You have 3 times more chances to be murdered in the US than in the UK Mikate8. This is not a teensy bit more but a hell more.

I never had to worry about Hitler either.
:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Well if the parents were smart they'd have a trigger lock or a gun safe when you have kids in the house.

Only the top tier of criminals get guns too? Then why in France are poor immigrants getting guns and shooting at the police?

Guns get smuggled into countries illegally, gun control laws won't stop them

Something is stopping criminals using them here, what could it be Mikate8?

1/ the knowledge that the rest of the population is unarmed.

2/ the knowledge that the police is unarmed.

3/ the knowledge that gun control laws are very strict.

4/ it is an American thing, only.

What is it?

:-D
:-D

[Mikate8]

America is still safer LL
In Scotland you're 3 times more likely to be assaulted than us gun loving Americans, OMG THATS SO FUNNY, HAHA, CRAZY SCOTS BEATING UP EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4257966.stm
OR
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1786945,00.html

How fun LL, it seems like a crazy suspense game, wondering if you'll get hit over the head with something or not while walking down the street.
I laugh, I laugh some more, and then somehow I keep laughing at you LL

Lucky Luke, there are 270,000,000 guns in this country, so that means it'll be relatively easy for a criminal to get a gun, thats why the only way we can stop this is to make sure Criminals get sent to jail for a long time when they use guns from the black market. Stopping law abiding citizens from owning guns will just make them easier prey, its that simple

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: America is still safer LL
In Scotland you're 3 times more likely to be assaulted than us gun loving Americans, OMG THATS SO FUNNY, HAHA, CRAZY SCOTS BEATING UP EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4257966.stm
OR
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1786945,00.html

How fun LL, it seems like a crazy suspense game, wondering if you'll get hit over the head with something or not while walking down the street.
I laugh, I laugh some more, and then somehow I keep laughing at you LL

Lucky Luke, there are 270,000,000 guns in this country, so that means it'll be relatively easy for a criminal to get a gun, thats why the only way we can stop this is to make sure Criminals get sent to jail for a long time when they use guns from the black market. Stopping law abiding citizens from owning guns will just make them easier prey, its that simple

The famous UN telephone poll, here we go again Mikate8, did you realise that your two links are about the same thing?

Would you like to show us how relevant is the UN telephone poll when compared with the statistics gathered by the Home Office and the FBI?

Once you have defended the UN telephone poll, I'll expect you to show me a similar poll telling us that it is not true that you have 3 times more chances to be murdered in the US than in the UK.

Because of course what we want is less violence but more murders, isn't it?!?!

Here in Scotland we are ashamed of our level of street violence and we are all backing up the authorities to reduce it. The problem in America is that you are not addressing your insane level of murders, 70% with guns, and you are not backing up the authorities to reduce it.
:-D
:-D

[Mikate8]

Well Lucky Luke, the solution is simple, arrest criminals who use guns for crimes, and arrest those who sell guns illegally. Thats the solution, its easy and simple, its just a lot of democrats and liberals think that murders that involve guns will only happen if you get rid of all the guns. Even the ones law abiding citizens use to defend themselves with.

I know I used two articles with the same subject, I just thought it was funny at how the stereotype is true, scottish people beat up on each other a lot. You even admitted that you are ashamed at the level of street violence you have there.

I'm ashamed too LL, ashamed that certain politicians can't come up with useful legislature even though thats what they're paid to do. Our country has a lot of guns in it. The cost to get rid of them all would be monumental and its still impossible to get them all. Bad people will hide them to sell the guns to criminals who will go around the streets unchallenged because what are the law abiding people going to do when someone breaks into their house with a gun? Call the police and wait? Not good enough

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Well Lucky Luke, the solution is simple, arrest criminals who use guns for crimes, and arrest those who sell guns illegally. Thats the solution, its easy and simple, its just a lot of democrats and liberals think that murders that involve guns will only happen if you get rid of all the guns. Even the ones law abiding citizens use to defend themselves with.

I know I used two articles with the same subject, I just thought it was funny at how the stereotype is true, scottish people beat up on each other a lot. You even admitted that you are ashamed at the level of street violence you have there.

I'm ashamed too LL, ashamed that certain politicians can't come up with useful legislature even though thats what they're paid to do. Our country has a lot of guns in it. The cost to get rid of them all would be monumental and its still impossible to get them all. Bad people will hide them to sell the guns to criminals who will go around the streets unchallenged because what are the law abiding people going to do when someone breaks into their house with a gun? Call the police and wait? Not good enough

You have done that already Mikate8, your prison population per capita is the highest in the world! And yet there are enough murderers with guns out there to generate an insane murder rate every year, year after year in America.

If prison was the solution, America would have the lowest murder rate of all, it has one the highest ones.

It is true Mikate8, Scotland is a very violent society and yet we are killing each other at half of the rate Americans are! What do you prefer a bloody nose or a bullet inside you Mikate8?

Surely if guns were used to defend people's lives effectively as you are claiming, violent Scotland would have a lot higher murder rate than America.

The cost of stricter gun control is nothing compared to the cost of the lost of so many lives every year, year after year Mikate8.

:-D
:-D

[Mikate8]

Lucky Luke, you don't seem to get it, taking away all the guns in this country won't stop murders. You wanna know why?

Because its impossible to get every single gun and rid it from this country.

If the government asks us to give up our guns will the criminals comply? Please answer that.

The law abiding citizens might, but the criminals won't

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Lucky Luke, you don't seem to get it, taking away all the guns in this country won't stop murders. You wanna know why?

Because its impossible to get every single gun and rid it from this country.

If the government asks us to give up our guns will the criminals comply? Please answer that.

The law abiding citizens might, but the criminals won't

You lost me there, who claimed that we should take away all guns or that it is possible to stop all murders?

I never claimed such things Mikate8, try again.

:-D
:-D

[Mikate8]

Still Lucky Luke, its better to be able to defend yourself and be equal with the criminal trying to hurt you rather than be a victim.

If our country would stop putting away people who use small amounts of weed then more space in jail, there, one problem solved, instead they can pay hefty fines.

Then you can stick those criminals in jail that use illegally bought weapons and crack down on that crime instead of imposing laws on ordinary people

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Still Lucky Luke, its better to be able to defend yourself and be equal with the criminal trying to hurt you rather than be a victim.

If our country would stop putting away people who use small amounts of weed then more space in jail, there, one problem solved, instead they can pay hefty fines.

Then you can stick those criminals in jail that use illegally bought weapons and crack down on that crime instead of imposing laws on ordinary people

Are you claiming that murderers in America are not put in jail Mikate8?

It is not better for a western democratic peaceful society to be armed for self defence, the result of such trend can be seen in America. One of the top countries for homicide rate and the worst country in the world to take away the freedom of its own people.

We put our drug users and dealers in jail too and yet...

:-D
:-D

[Mikate8]

Look, lets just end this right here.

Europe and America have two totally different cultures. Just because were both human doesnt mean we're the same.
We also live in different countries and different parts of the world.
Our histories are different, very different.

You don't want guns, fine.

We want guns, we have ours.
Just because there are groups of people that want to take them away doesn't mean they'll get them. Even if they outnumber us they won't get them. We live in a Republic and not a democracy. If majority rules then the minority becomes oppressed. If a majority wants our guns, they'll have to fight real hard because mobs don't rule here. I don't care what goes on in Europe or how you deal with it as long as it doesn't affect us.

You say its not good for a peaceful society to armed in self-defense. Well just because it may work for you doesn't mean it'll work for us because if you remembered old sport you'd have read that we are two different cultures on two different parts of the ocean.

I'm arguing that in our culture, in our society, in our country that is way different than yours, we need our guns. Ok? We need ours. There are many armed criminals out there, you and I both know this when you cite those statistics and what not. You want us all to get rid of our guns. Some of us might, most will not. Wanna know why? The criminals won't give up theirs when asked, even very politely with a british cockney accent.
So what you're asking is to let the criminal be better armed than us law abiding citizens? Thats what you're asking? Are you serious?

WELL F*** THAT!!! THERES F***ING CRIMINALS OUT THERE WITH GUNS EVEN YOU KNOW THAT AND YOU WANT EVERYONE TO GET RID OF THEIR GUNS? WHAT LOGIC IS THAT? F*** EUROPE WE NEED OUR GUNS!!! I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT A SKINNY LITTLE BRITISH KID WITH A KNIFE, I'M WORRIED ABOUT A HARDENED CRIMINAL WITH A GUN!!! GEEZE YOU GUYS ARE TWISTED!!! TRYING TO GET EVERYONE KILLED IS WHAT!!!

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Look, lets just end this right here.

Europe and America have two totally different cultures. Just because were both human doesnt mean we're the same.
We also live in different countries and different parts of the world.
Our histories are different, very different.

You don't want guns, fine.

We want guns, we have ours.
Just because there are groups of people that want to take them away doesn't mean they'll get them. Even if they outnumber us they won't get them. We live in a Republic and not a democracy. If majority rules then the minority becomes oppressed. If a majority wants our guns, they'll have to fight real hard because mobs don't rule here. I don't care what goes on in Europe or how you deal with it as long as it doesn't affect us.

You say its not good for a peaceful society to armed in self-defense. Well just because it may work for you doesn't mean it'll work for us because if you remembered old sport you'd have read that we are two different cultures on two different parts of the ocean.

I'm arguing that in our culture, in our society, in our country that is way different than yours, we need our guns. Ok? We need ours. There are many armed criminals out there, you and I both know this when you cite those statistics and what not. You want us all to get rid of our guns. Some of us might, most will not. Wanna know why? The criminals won't give up theirs when asked, even very politely with a british cockney accent.
So what you're asking is to let the criminal be better armed than us law abiding citizens? Thats what you're asking? Are you serious?

WELL F*** THAT!!! THERES F***ING CRIMINALS OUT THERE WITH GUNS EVEN YOU KNOW THAT AND YOU WANT EVERYONE TO GET RID OF THEIR GUNS? WHAT LOGIC IS THAT? F*** EUROPE WE NEED OUR GUNS!!! I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT A SKINNY LITTLE BRITISH KID WITH A KNIFE, I'M WORRIED ABOUT A HARDENED CRIMINAL WITH A GUN!!! GEEZE YOU GUYS ARE TWISTED!!! TRYING TO GET EVERYONE KILLED IS WHAT!!!

Canada.

:-D
:-D

[Mikate8]

What does canada have to do with anything LL

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: What does canada have to do with anything LL

Europe and America have two totally different cultures, I read you write. I believe that many parts of Europe are culturally very close to many parts of America while parts of America have a very different culture than other parts of America just like in Europe.

:-D
:-D

[Mikate8]

Like what LL?

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Like what LL?

New Yorkers understand a lot more Londoners than some deer hunter in Wisconsin and deer hunting communities in Wisconsin will understand very well how deer hunting communities live their life in the Highlands in Scotland.

:-D
:-D

[Bonobo]

Mikate8 wrote: America is still safer LL
In Scotland you're 3 times more likely to be assaulted than us gun loving Americans, OMG THATS SO FUNNY, HAHA, CRAZY SCOTS BEATING UP EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4257966.stm
OR
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1786945,00.html

How fun LL, it seems like a crazy suspense game, wondering if you'll get hit over the head with something or not while walking down the street.
I laugh, I laugh some more, and then somehow I keep laughing at you LL

Lucky Luke, there are 270,000,000 guns in this country, so that means it'll be relatively easy for a criminal to get a gun, thats why the only way we can stop this is to make sure Criminals get sent to jail for a long time when they use guns from the black market. Stopping law abiding citizens from owning guns will just make them easier prey, its that simple

That is truly incredible.

Someone is defending gun laws in the US. So they show more fights are handled wthout guns in Scotland than in the US. Of course were you to show the number of incidents involving guns, fatal or otherwide, the figures would be horrendous.

However instead, you have somehow managed, in defence of guns, to show that as more incidents are resolved in Scotland without guns that gun control doesnt work.

V Impressive.

[Mikate8]

Bonobo, all I was showing that even without guns there would still be violence, stop being a condescending briton. Oh, sorry I guess you can't help that.



Lucky Luke, your post is pretty weak. I said our cultures are very different, the reason why we have guns and you don't. What makes you think a New Yorker will understand a londoner? Just a guess is what it is. What does it have to do with guns? Nothing.

You say a wisconsin deer hunter understands some bloke in the scotland highlands? Where did you get that info?

I didn't know you knew that much about the culture and lifestyles in wisconsin and new york

[Lucky Luke]

Mikate8 wrote: Bonobo, all I was showing that even without guns there would still be violence, stop being a condescending briton. Oh, sorry I guess you can't help that.



Lucky Luke, your post is pretty weak. I said our cultures are very different, the reason why we have guns and you don't. What makes you think a New Yorker will understand a londoner? Just a guess is what it is. What does it have to do with guns? Nothing.

You say a wisconsin deer hunter understands some bloke in the scotland highlands? Where did you get that info?

I didn't know you knew that much about the culture and lifestyles in wisconsin and new york

You talked about culture and how different they are, I have proved to you that they aren't as you said.

I do travel and I have friends in some of those places.

:-D
:-D

[Bonobo]

No, you're attempting to mislead people into thinking Scottish people are more violent than America, hence stating that statistic. Why don't you compare the number of lethal shootings in Scotland and in the USA?

For obvious reasons. You say you posted that to show that violence would exist without guns (5 millenia or so of history tells us that but anyhow..) So you are saying that, if the Scottish had loose gun control like in the USA, instead of there being so many assaults, there would have been so many what exactly..?

Apologies if I appear patronising but I just can't see how a pro gun person could give stats showing how rarely guns are used in countries without gun control as an argument