Political Crossfire Forums

[Ardent]

Germany, France, the UK etc all have very strict gun
controls. You can't own a gun for self defence, you can't
have a gun in your house for self defence purposes.
you can't own automatic weapons and to get a gun you
have to be subject to doctors reports and mental health
checks, as well as having to give a good reason why
you need to own a gun. There is not that much difference
between British Gun Laws and those of our European
Neighbours.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0513/guns/laws.html

So how come Germany and continental Europe, have such
low crime rates??????????????

[Wolverine]

Most likely different cultures.

[airo]

Ardent wrote: Germany, France, the UK etc all have very strict gun
controls. You can't own a gun for self defence, you can't
have a gun in your house for self defence purposes.
you can't own automatic weapons and to get a gun you
have to be subject to doctors reports and mental health
checks, as well as having to give a good reason why
you need to own a gun. There is not that much difference
between British Gun Laws and those of our European
Neighbours.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0513/guns/laws.html

So how come Germany and continental Europe, have such
low crime rates??????????????

How come Germany and continental Europe have undergone tyrannical, oppressive rule, in many places, multiple times in the past century?

[The Comrade]

those countries have lower populations, so fewer crimes would be committed there.


now if you had a ratio of crimes per population then your question would make more sense.

[Ardent]

The Comrade wrote: those countries have lower populations, so fewer crimes would be committed there.


now if you had a ratio of crimes per population then your question would make more sense.

Per Capita (as a percentage of population) Germany
has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

[Ardent]

airo wrote: Ardent wrote: Germany, France, the UK etc all have very strict gun
controls. You can't own a gun for self defence, you can't
have a gun in your house for self defence purposes.
you can't own automatic weapons and to get a gun you
have to be subject to doctors reports and mental health
checks, as well as having to give a good reason why
you need to own a gun. There is not that much difference
between British Gun Laws and those of our European
Neighbours.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0513/guns/laws.html

So how come Germany and continental Europe, have such
low crime rates??????????????

How come Germany and continental Europe have undergone tyrannical, oppressive rule, in many places, multiple times in the past century?

Germany has only in the last couple of decades,
tightened it's gun laws. Gun laws became an
issue following massacres in Germany. Despite
having strict gun laws Germany is an extremely
safe country.

France has also tightened it's gun laws and also
now has very strict gun laws .

Switzerland does not allow guns for self defence,
but allows guns for the military which must be
kept in metal boxes and under military law in a
guardsmans home. The only other reason for
having a gun in Switzerland is for sport or as part
of a persons employment. You can't carry concealed
weapons in Switzerland.

[The Comrade]

Ardent wrote: Per Capita (as a percentage of population) Germany
has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.


you do know americas crime rate is falling right?

[Ardent]

The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote: Per Capita (as a percentage of population) Germany
has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.


you do know americas crime rate is falling right?

Really, thats news to me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-30-violent-crimes_x.htm

[The Comrade]

Ardent wrote: The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote: Per Capita (as a percentage of population) Germany
has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.


you do know americas crime rate is falling right?

Really, thats news to me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-30-violent-crimes_x.htm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/973814.stm


Quote: Headline news from the United States very often focuses on violent crime, such as the tragic school shootings of recent years.

it's all misleading garbage to get you to watch/read the news.

[Ardent]

The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote: The Comrade wrote: Ardent wrote: Per Capita (as a percentage of population) Germany
has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.


you do know americas crime rate is falling right?

Really, thats news to me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-30-violent-crimes_x.htm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/973814.stm


Quote: Headline news from the United States very often focuses on violent crime, such as the tragic school shootings of recent years.

it's all misleading garbage to get you to watch/read the news.

That article you have just posted is from 2000, over six
years ago, the one I posted was from two months ago. :roll:

[The Comrade]

Ardent wrote:

That article you have just posted is from 2000, over six
years ago, the one I posted was from two months ago. :roll:


And you think america's crime rate has shot up that much in six years?

[Green]

Europe- people have a right to life, and have a lower poverty rate

America- corporations are robbing the poor to feed the rich, they use that money to get people into office that will keep this system going.

[lilwolf]

Green wrote: Europe- people have a right to life, and have a lower poverty rate

America- corporations are robbing the poor to feed the rich, they use that money to get people into office that will keep this system going.


Don't foget that most of europe has higher unemployment rates and higher taxes by far as well and a couple have higher crime rates than we do....not just gun crime but overall crime in general.

The issues are to many to actually pin onto any one in general.

[airo]

Ardent wrote: airo wrote: Ardent wrote: Germany, France, the UK etc all have very strict gun
controls. You can't own a gun for self defence, you can't
have a gun in your house for self defence purposes.
you can't own automatic weapons and to get a gun you
have to be subject to doctors reports and mental health
checks, as well as having to give a good reason why
you need to own a gun. There is not that much difference
between British Gun Laws and those of our European
Neighbours.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0513/guns/laws.html

So how come Germany and continental Europe, have such
low crime rates??????????????

How come Germany and continental Europe have undergone tyrannical, oppressive rule, in many places, multiple times in the past century?

Germany has only in the last couple of decades,
tightened it's gun laws. Gun laws became an
issue following massacres in Germany. Despite
having strict gun laws Germany is an extremely
safe country.

France has also tightened it's gun laws and also
now has very strict gun laws .

Switzerland does not allow guns for self defence,
but allows guns for the military which must be
kept in metal boxes and under military law in a
guardsmans home. The only other reason for
having a gun in Switzerland is for sport or as part
of a persons employment. You can't carry concealed
weapons in Switzerland.

I honestly don't care how "safe" a place is. You're only as safe as you choose to be. I've existed in some very unsafe areas very safely, in fact.

Regardless, you have yet to answer the question. How come tyranny has managed to flourish in Europe when it was virtually booted out of America, never to return?

I don't know about you, but i'd rather take my own personal safety into my own hands and be free, than face oppression every 20 years or so from various groups and be "safe".

[lilwolf]

Ardent your first link was published in 2002 and your next was 2006 I agree but what you need to see is that not all of the crime in your second link are murder.

However the rates of increase is very small from 2004 to 2005 which went from 5.5 (2004) to 5.6 (2005)

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm




Now 2006 is not complete and it vcannot be used as yet because all of the data is not yet available and is only speculation at best at this point. The year is not yet done.

Even the BJS site has the following data:

For most crimes, aggregated rates for the period 2004-05 were unchanged from the previous two year period 2002-03, while minor declines were seen for some forms of robbery and simple assault without injury.
The rate of firearm violence increased between 2004 and 2005, from 1.4 to 2.0 victimizations per 1,000 individuals age 12 or older.
Males, blacks, and persons age 24 or younger continued to be victimized at higher rates than females, whites, and persons age 25 or older in 2005.


The point is that any use of 2006 rates of crime are non acceptable due to it not being a full year as yet.

[Green]

lilwolf wrote: Green wrote: Europe- people have a right to life, and have a lower poverty rate

America- corporations are robbing the poor to feed the rich, they use that money to get people into office that will keep this system going.


Don't foget that most of europe has higher unemployment rates and higher taxes by far as well and a couple have higher crime rates than we do....not just gun crime but overall crime in general.

The issues are to many to actually pin onto any one in general.

Percisely, gun control is not the only factor in crime, but more guns owned by lawful citizens means safer streets.

[lilwolf]

Green wrote: lilwolf wrote: Green wrote: Europe- people have a right to life, and have a lower poverty rate

America- corporations are robbing the poor to feed the rich, they use that money to get people into office that will keep this system going.


Don't foget that most of europe has higher unemployment rates and higher taxes by far as well and a couple have higher crime rates than we do....not just gun crime but overall crime in general.

The issues are to many to actually pin onto any one in general.

Percisely, gun control is not the only factor in crime, but more guns owned by lawful citizens means safer streets.


That's it in a nut shell....the more legal people that areaactually carrying a weapon the safer it really is. Bad guys don't know who is and is not armed. We have the RTC here and our crime in this city is pretty low.

Hell my whole state is 2.4 in 2005 per 100k and we only have about 1.5 million in the entire state. But we also have a very large amount of guns owned by legal people. Most of our crime is down as well.
Plus we as a state implemented the program that if you are a felon and have a gun it is autmatic 5 years in fed prison. It is working here.

[superskippy]

More people have died by the gun in Europe by far this century then in America. More people have died by the gun in Europe this past decade then America, Europe has it's own faults even though they might have a handle on some crime rates.

[lilwolf]

There is one here that you will never be able to convince that of....he lives in an illusionary utopia at the end of the yellow brick road . Where everything is just peachy keen and all that crap.

To him we are either all insane because we want to keep our guns or that we have an insane murder rate.

But all in all we keep our guns and they will not be given up without a good fight.

[Jefferson]

Ardent wrote: Germany, France, the UK etc all have very strict gun
controls. You can't own a gun for self defence, you can't
have a gun in your house for self defence purposes.
you can't own automatic weapons and to get a gun you
have to be subject to doctors reports and mental health
checks, as well as having to give a good reason why
you need to own a gun. There is not that much difference
between British Gun Laws and those of our European
Neighbours.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0513/guns/laws.html

So how come Germany and continental Europe, have such
low crime rates??????????????

Low crime rates?

That is a myth.

Europe has low GUN CRIME, but not low crime rates.