Political Crossfire Forums

[Askim]

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/

How can anyone actually disagree with this guy. What is your opinion on this????

[bunny]

Quote: Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document.



It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.



Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.


Kudos...

[Alizard]

Askim wrote: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/

How can anyone actually disagree with this guy. What is your opinion on this????

My opinion is that the mountain of lies they built around Pat's death was shameful, but the ultimate disgrace was that they lied to his family regarding his death for about eight weeks.... and that included lying to his brother who was on active duty in Afghanistan.

The amount of evil permeating this admistration's wars is almost beyond belief.

[Askim]

Its funny! Usually the right winger, bible thumpers are quick to call me anti semite or lefty pinko! Not one will chime in on this tho!!! Figures!! Not much they can agrgue with here. Fact is fact! And Mr Tillman is a couraguos man for speaking out. I especially like what he says here...

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

[Angelicus]

Askim wrote: Its funny! Usually the right winger, bible thumpers are quick to call me anti semite or lefty pinko! Not one will chime in on this tho!!! Figures!! Not much they can agrgue with here. Fact is fact! And Mr Tillman is a couraguos man for speaking out. I especially like what he says here...

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

"Fact is Fact" yet you are talking in a thread about a piece, in wich a man is expressing his OPINION.

Since when is an OPINION fact?

Oh by the way, a right winger, bible thumping, American just chimed in.

[The Newb]

Alizard wrote: Askim wrote: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/

How can anyone actually disagree with this guy. What is your opinion on this????

My opinion is that the mountain of lies they built around Pat's death was shameful, but the ultimate disgrace was that they lied to his family regarding his death for about eight weeks.... and that included lying to his brother who was on active duty in Afghanistan.

The amount of evil permeating this admistration's wars is almost beyond belief.

was on on a classified mission in afghanistan, it is not right that they lied to his family, however with his high profile status, if word got out too soon as to what happened it could have had effects on the mission and other soldiers lives

[Askim]

Angelicus wrote: Askim wrote: Its funny! Usually the right winger, bible thumpers are quick to call me anti semite or lefty pinko! Not one will chime in on this tho!!! Figures!! Not much they can agrgue with here. Fact is fact! And Mr Tillman is a couraguos man for speaking out. I especially like what he says here...

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

"Fact is Fact" yet you are talking in a thread about a piece, in wich a man is expressing his OPINION.

Since when is an OPINION fact?

Oh by the way, a right winger, bible thumping, American just chimed in.

I understand this is just a mans opinion. But what one of those opinions do you disagree? You tell me what one or ones you disagree with and I will provide hard fact that it is true.

[sfcwoodret]

Now, we can wait for the book deal!

[Angelicus]

Askim wrote: Angelicus wrote: Askim wrote: Its funny! Usually the right winger, bible thumpers are quick to call me anti semite or lefty pinko! Not one will chime in on this tho!!! Figures!! Not much they can agrgue with here. Fact is fact! And Mr Tillman is a couraguos man for speaking out. I especially like what he says here...

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

"Fact is Fact" yet you are talking in a thread about a piece, in wich a man is expressing his OPINION.

Since when is an OPINION fact?

Oh by the way, a right winger, bible thumping, American just chimed in.

I understand this is just a mans opinion. But what one of those opinions do you disagree? You tell me what one or ones you disagree with and I will provide hard fact that it is true.

Wether I agree or disagree wouldn't change anything because that would just be MY opinion.

[Askim]

Angelicus wrote: Askim wrote: Angelicus wrote: Askim wrote: Its funny! Usually the right winger, bible thumpers are quick to call me anti semite or lefty pinko! Not one will chime in on this tho!!! Figures!! Not much they can agrgue with here. Fact is fact! And Mr Tillman is a couraguos man for speaking out. I especially like what he says here...

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

"Fact is Fact" yet you are talking in a thread about a piece, in wich a man is expressing his OPINION.

Since when is an OPINION fact?

Oh by the way, a right winger, bible thumping, American just chimed in.

I understand this is just a mans opinion. But what one of those opinions do you disagree? You tell me what one or ones you disagree with and I will provide hard fact that it is true.

Wether I agree or disagree wouldn't change anything because that would just be MY opinion.

Thought so!!! You know that what is said is true, but you still choose to sit with your fingers in your ears, yelling praise for your dear leader , while draped in a blood soaked American flag!!! Your Jesus must be proud of you!!!!

[Alizard]

Angelicus wrote: Askim wrote: Its funny! Usually the right winger, bible thumpers are quick to call me anti semite or lefty pinko! Not one will chime in on this tho!!! Figures!! Not much they can agrgue with here. Fact is fact! And Mr Tillman is a couraguos man for speaking out. I especially like what he says here...

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

"Fact is Fact" yet you are talking in a thread about a piece, in wich a man is expressing his OPINION.

Since when is an OPINION fact?

Oh by the way, a right winger, bible thumping, American just chimed in.

Ding-dong....

You chimed in, but without addressing the thread topic which is the admin's shameful act which turned a proud and patriotic special forces soldier into a disillusioned man willing to openly criticize the admin's actions.

The admin spun a web of lies around Tilmann's death and never acknowledged it was friendly fire until much after the fact..... and screwed over an oustanding soldier (and his family) in the process.

Why don't you answer the thread topic?

[pikers]

Askim wrote: Its funny! Usually the right winger, bible thumpers are quick to call me anti semite or lefty pinko! Not one will chime in on this tho!!! Figures!! Not much they can agrgue with here. Fact is fact! And Mr Tillman is a couraguos man for speaking out. I especially like what he says here...

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow, someone from a do-nothing country like Canada can comment on this situation.

Tillman's brother has the right to say what he wants. He also has the right to make his grief into a platform to support his anti-Bush/war sentiments, if he so chooses.

To some though, it's really transparent and boring.