Political Crossfire Forums

[lilwolf]

slitedeviance wrote: lilwolf wrote: Well that gives an entirely different perspective to the so called good hezbollah group and it might even show just what kind of butchers they really are...... :lol: This is so good it hurts :rotf:

Sorry dude but how? We already know that Hizbollah had no issue with firing munitions into Israeli cities. The only new thing is revealing that it was cluster munitions....

How does that make them butchers when you have so vehemently defended Israels use of these type of weapons? Care to explain?


Yes, the irony of these bastards getting caught up in doing exactly what they condemned. I think it is just faccinating that they got nailed for doing this and starting all the hype over Israel starting it all.
You got a problem with that when they got caught ...live with it.

I defend Israel because they are being forced into a war by these radical islamic clowns that want to destroy Israel. .I cannot wait till Israel is ultimately forced into the situatio of the sampson option and it all ends right there...then most (what ever is left) will not want to do one damn thing for about a thousand years....gonna be good.

[slitedeviance]

lilwolf wrote: I defend Israel because they are being forced into a war by these radical islamic clowns that want to destroy Israel. .I cannot wait till Israel is ultimately forced into the situatio of the sampson option and it all ends right there...

Right. So in fact you are in favour of Genocide? I mean, that would be the end result wouldn't it? The extermination of an entire region. All the millions of people who never killed one Israeli citizen wiped out.

How is that any different from the mentality behind 9/11? Thousands die to prove a point.

I assume at this point you concede you are not arguing from any point of morality and in fact seek nothing further than dominance or extermination?

[Venom]

Plato
Quote: no one on the pro-Palestinian side, will call Hezbollahs behaviour anything but what it was. Which is the immoral and deliberate targeting of civilians
Awww looks like your too late, Ali has shown up. He certainly believes Hezbollah's actions were moral and the right way to do things. :lol:

Quote: Using cluster bombs, bombing evacuating caravans after they give the warning, preventing aid from getting through...
Cluster bombs are again the weapon of choice to use against missile launchers. Bombing evacuating caravans, you mean the same ones Hezbollah used to ferry their fighters back and forth? Or perhaps the debunked ambulance attack? Preventing aid to get through? A pretty common sense move for fighting a guerrilla force. Perhaps that same aid would be used by Hezbollah, perhaps along with the aid flowing in so would more weapons? No biggie though....



Also as for why less Israeli civilians died... maybe because they have learned since they are constantly under attack to build bunkers?
Those silly Jews and common sense.

[agentkgb]

Venom wrote: Quote: Using cluster bombs, bombing evacuating caravans after they give the warning, preventing aid from getting through...
Cluster bombs are again the weapon of choice to use against missile launchers. Bombing evacuating caravans, you mean the same ones Hezbollah used to ferry their fighters back and forth? Or perhaps the debunked ambulance attack? Preventing aid to get through? A pretty common sense move for fighting a guerrilla force. Perhaps that same aid would be used by Hezbollah, perhaps along with the aid flowing in so would more weapons? No biggie though....
Israel (and, apparently, you as well) put the destruction of Hezbollah above the lives of Lebanese civilians, which was my original point.

[Venom]

Quote: Israel (and, apparently, you as well) put the destruction of Hezbollah above the lives of Lebanese civilians, which was my original point
I put the lives of the Israeli people above those of Hezbollah. Unless you know of a realistic way to combat Hezbollah without putting members of the IDF into even greater danger I'd love to hear it.

[agentkgb]

Venom wrote: Quote: Israel (and, apparently, you as well) put the destruction of Hezbollah above the lives of Lebanese civilians, which was my original point
I put the lives of the Israeli people above those of Hezbollah. Unless you know of a realistic way to combat Hezbollah without putting members of the IDF into even greater danger I'd love to hear it.
I find it difficult to believe that in order to save Israeli lives so many Lebanese had to be killed.

[Venom]

Quote: I find it difficult to believe that in order to save Israeli lives so many Lebanese had to be killed.
That's fine. However when you take into account that A: Hezbollah attacked killed and kidnapped some IDF soldiers. B: Hezbollah was embedded with the civilian population. C: Hezbollah used civilian clothing and equipment to transport their arms. D: They fired their rockets from Lebanese civilian buildings it's not that hard to believe. Also you have to take into account that Hezbollah certainly does not report it's losses like Western countries do and also take into account all the Hezbollah propaganda released that is proven to be false regarding attacks upon civilians. It leaves a lot of questions in the air to what the actual number of civilian deaths were.

[agentkgb]

Venom wrote: Quote: I find it difficult to believe that in order to save Israeli lives so many Lebanese had to be killed.
That's fine. However when you take into account that A: Hezbollah attacked killed and kidnapped some IDF soldiers. B: Hezbollah was embedded with the civilian population. C: Hezbollah used civilian clothing and equipment to transport their arms. D: They fired their rockets from Lebanese civilian buildings it's not that hard to believe. Also you have to take into account that Hezbollah certainly does not report it's losses like Western countries do and also take into account all the Hezbollah propaganda released that is proven to be false regarding attacks upon civilians. It leaves a lot of questions in the air to what the actual number of civilian deaths were.
Cluster bombs weren't necessary, for one thing. Certianly if it was absolutely necessary that they use cluster bombs (which it wasn't), they could have gotten some that weren't from the 70's, which might have had a lower failure rate.
Out of curiousity, if you had to estimate the number of Lebanese civilians killed, what would your guess be? Certainly it was greater than the number of Israeli civilians killed.

[Venom]

Quote: Cluster bombs weren't necessary, for one thing
Cluster munitions are the weapon of choice to be used versus rocket launcher type targets.

Quote: Certianly if it was absolutely necessary that they use cluster bombs (which it wasn't), they could have gotten some that weren't from the 70's, which might have had a lower failure rate.

You use what you have. I've used C-4 that was from the 50's and it had a greater splatter but it still got the job done.

Quote: Out of curiousity, if you had to estimate the number of Lebanese civilians killed, what would your guess be?
Honestly I don't know. My reasoning is that they do not report deaths with any accuracy. They can claim any militant killed to be a civilian, they have already made mock ups of attacks on Lebanon by Israel. I'd say that the estimate would be at the very least 1/3 lower.

Quote: Certainly it was greater than the number of Israeli civilians
Is that an issue? Also I'd guess that it would be higher, but that can be attributed to many things. One of which certainly not being Hezbollah's lack of attempting to kill them. A large portion lived in bunkers during the missile attacks while the Lebanese people didn't have this option (oddly enough the loving people of Hezbollah built bunkers for themselves but not for the people they are "protecting").

[lilwolf]

slitedeviance wrote: lilwolf wrote: I defend Israel because they are being forced into a war by these radical islamic clowns that want to destroy Israel. .I cannot wait till Israel is ultimately forced into the situatio of the sampson option and it all ends right there...

Right. So in fact you are in favour of Genocide? I mean, that would be the end result wouldn't it? The extermination of an entire region. All the millions of people who never killed one Israeli citizen wiped out.

How is that any different from the mentality behind 9/11? Thousands die to prove a point.

I assume at this point you concede you are not arguing from any point of morality and in fact seek nothing further than dominance or extermination?


I am saying that in the end type of situation i would use what ever weapon that is at my disposal..... Morality is a secondary issue if you are in a life and death struggle.
The people that have the leaders in the nations that want to remove Israel from the face of the earth are as responsible for their leaders action as the leaders are.
Example: The leader of Iran has within his power to stop all of the attacks and he does nothing but encourage more.
He also has within his power to quit arming Hezbollah and he does nothing.

He could by merely giving the order to cease and desist all military and terrorist actions against Israel and it would yet he does nothing.

The deaths of millions of potential victims in this death struggle are all on his hands as is their blood by his lack of inaction.

That is what is going on and the people that he surround himself with are fanatics as much or more than he himself is.