Political Crossfire Forums

[Geolibertarian]

The above poll question is based on an actual scientific poll that was conducted earlier this month, the results of which can be read at:

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13469


Todd

[Nathyn]

They should make it a rule that flaming should be allowed in any 9/11 conspiracy threads posted in P&G.

Just so people will stop posting them here.

WTF. There are so many threads about the 9/11 conspiracy, it's almost as if... ....the government.... ...were behind it all......

[Dookiestix]

This is the Bush administration's own damn fault. Bush and Cheney testified whilst holding hands, NOT under oath, and without proper recording devices. They also had a time constraint of roughly one hour in which to allow the Commission to ask their questions. We've already seen the videos of Rice, Rumsfeld and others sweating it out in offering up their testimony.

They MUST have known that offering up such unbelievably incomplete information would also allow conspiracy theorists to come to the fold and give them cover in this situation. But as the fog of confusion clears just a bit, more Americans are coming to realize that they know very little about what happened on that fateful day.

The mere myth that someone found the passport of one of the hijackers on the ground should be telling enough. Also, the fact that there isn't a SINGLE image of what hit the Pentagon on 9/11 is extremely compelling. Not a SINGLE security camera got a clear shot of what hit the Pentagon, and the videos from the gas stations have yet to be viewed by the general public.

So many questions, and so much doubt. I'm not about to offer up an conspiracy theories. But this, of course, is to be expected when the Bush administration apparently seems to not be very forthcoming when it comes to the American people.

There are still plenty of question, IMHO...

[Alizard]

With their current credibility level, I would answer affirmative to this question if I can verify lip movement and the passing of air over their vocal chords.

:lol:

[Geolibertarian]

Nathyn wrote: They should make it a rule that flaming should be allowed in any 9/11 conspiracy threads posted in P&G.

Just so people will stop posting them here.
%*

[mODULAR mAN]

I think any question about any gov't can be answered mostly telling the truth but hiding something.

That is, they made say things that are technically true, but weasel it so much that it doesn't mean what people think it means.

And I strongly suspect we don't know everything about 9/11 that the Admin knows.

[psholtz]

Dookiestix wrote: This is the Bush administration's own damn fault.
It's the Bush administration's own damn fault b/c they're the ones who committed the crimes of 9/11 in the first place..

[Snake]

Is the question asking if they knew it would happen, or just what they knew before hand? Kinda vauge imo....

[Medius]

Kamel wrote: Is the question asking if they knew it would happen, or just what they knew before hand? Kinda vauge imo....

The point of the question is to find out general trust in the government, not to determine if you believe in a conspiracy or otherwise. Most people do believe that something is being hidden.

There is obviously hidden footage regarding the pentagon. There were other cameras and the frames don't add up on the released footage. Whether it was to cover up complicity or simply to keep some necessary secret for investigation purposes, do you believe that something, no matter how trivial, is being kept hidden?

(please don't take this as starting a 9/11 was planned argument, I'm simply stating that the government, in my view, is definately hiding something, whether for good or ill intentions, which is the question being asked)

[Snake]

Of course I think things are being hidden, and rightfully so. Any leader of any country would keep things hidden from the public. If they release all information, it's like telling those who commited the act how effective/innefective their attack was. It's like telling the enemy how good/bad they did so they can fine tune the next attack so it goes better. It reminds me of a US ship sank by the worlds first guided missile in WWII, it remained classified until, I think it was '94. The reason? They didn't want the Nazis to know if the weapon was effective or not.

[Medius]

Kamel wrote: Of course I think things are being hidden, and rightfully so. Any leader of any country would keep things hidden from the public. If they release all information, it's like telling those who commited the act how effective/innefective their attack was. It's like telling the enemy how good/bad they did so they can fine tune the next attack so it goes better. It reminds me of a US ship sank by the worlds first guided missile in WWII, it remained classified until, I think it was '94. The reason? They didn't want the Nazis to know if the weapon was effective or not.

It's good that the government told you this. I feel much better knowing that you have conclusive proof that the government is acting in our best interest. It is so hard to know when there are so many levels of secrecy.

[Snake]

And I find it so comforting that you have conclusive proof to the contrary.

[The Newb]

Medius wrote: Kamel wrote: Of course I think things are being hidden, and rightfully so. Any leader of any country would keep things hidden from the public. If they release all information, it's like telling those who commited the act how effective/innefective their attack was. It's like telling the enemy how good/bad they did so they can fine tune the next attack so it goes better. It reminds me of a US ship sank by the worlds first guided missile in WWII, it remained classified until, I think it was '94. The reason? They didn't want the Nazis to know if the weapon was effective or not.

It's good that the government told you this. I feel much better knowing that you have conclusive proof that the government is acting in our best interest. It is so hard to know when there are so many levels of secrecy.

and the secrecy would be bad how? it was just explained its a security issue

you know why not make everything public, weapons, tech, memos, plans, names, places, times, everything hell its ok if our enemy knows too much makes it easier to be attacked again

[Snake]

I will say this one final time, because everybody here who believes the conspiracy likes to give subtle barbs to the "non believers" (granted I've posted some unintelligable crap myself):
I find no credible evidence to support that George W. Bush, and his administration were responsible for 9/11. I also find it very likely, and very credible that this act was preformed by trained militant muslims. Some of whom were involved with the Russo-Afghanistan war, and one who was in our own military. I find it plausible due to the efficiency of previous muslim attacks around the world, their pure hatred for this country, and finally, their willingness/desire to die for their cause.

[MG1962]

Quote: I will say this one final time, because everybody here who believes the conspiracy likes to give subtle barbs to the "non believers" (granted I've posted some unintelligable crap myself):
I find no credible evidence to support that George W. Bush, and his administration were responsible for 9/11. I also find it very likely, and very credible that this act was preformed by trained militant muslims. Some of whom were involved with the Russo-Afghanistan war, and one who was in our own military. I find it plausible due to the efficiency of previous muslim attacks around the world, their pure hatred for this country, and finally, their willingness/desire to die for their cause

What he said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mighty Oak]

Kamel wrote: I will say this one final time, because everybody here who believes the conspiracy likes to give subtle barbs to the "non believers" (granted I've posted some unintelligable crap myself):
I find no credible evidence to support that George W. Bush, and his administration were responsible for 9/11. I also find it very likely, and very credible that this act was preformed by trained militant muslims. Some of whom were involved with the Russo-Afghanistan war, and one who was in our own military. I find it plausible due to the efficiency of previous muslim attacks around the world, their pure hatred for this country, and finally, their willingness/desire to die for their cause. You have expressed yourself very well here,I don't agree with you, never the less I appreciate a coherent thought. :) You will find as time goes by that things are not what they appear.

[psholtz]

Kamel wrote: Of course I think things are being hidden, and rightfully so.
"Hiding" something is not the same as flat out lying about it.

The Bush administration is doing both when it comes to 9/11..

[Medius]

Kamel wrote: And I find it so comforting that you have conclusive proof to the contrary.

I've never claimed such a thing. In fact I have specifically said that I do not believe the evidence available is conclusive at all. I do think that investigations are warranted before we continue down this line of "black box" government.

[Medius]

The Newb wrote: Medius wrote: Kamel wrote: Of course I think things are being hidden, and rightfully so. Any leader of any country would keep things hidden from the public. If they release all information, it's like telling those who commited the act how effective/innefective their attack was. It's like telling the enemy how good/bad they did so they can fine tune the next attack so it goes better. It reminds me of a US ship sank by the worlds first guided missile in WWII, it remained classified until, I think it was '94. The reason? They didn't want the Nazis to know if the weapon was effective or not.

It's good that the government told you this. I feel much better knowing that you have conclusive proof that the government is acting in our best interest. It is so hard to know when there are so many levels of secrecy.

and the secrecy would be bad how? it was just explained its a security issue

you know why not make everything public, weapons, tech, memos, plans, names, places, times, everything hell its ok if our enemy knows too much makes it easier to be attacked again

The problem with giving anyone the power to withold information from you is that you additionally give them the ability to decide what information should be withheld.

There is a point at which the danger to the people may be greater than the danger to our government under a system of full disclosure.

Alternately, we could demand that congress fulfill their duties and investigate wrong-doings. Or perhaps it is just necessary to build a new entity to watchdog the government and look after the rights of the people. One with actual investigative powers.

[Geolibertarian]

psholtz wrote: Kamel wrote: Of course I think things are being hidden, and rightfully so.
"Hiding" something is not the same as flat out lying about it.

The Bush administration is doing both when it comes to 9/11..
Not only is that the majority view in this thread -- as evidenced by the response to my poll thus far -- it is now the majority view of Americans everywhere (as polls such as the one I cited in my original post reveal). With so many people waking up, it's no wonder the fearmongering, freedom-hating neocons are practically falling all over themselves in a mad rush to move this country still further in the direction of an Orwellian police state.

Todd