Political Crossfire Forums

[prometeus]

Since the vast majority of posts in this section deal with the Israeli / Palestinian issues, and much of the support or criticism of Israel is based on the term of Zionist, I feel that it should be clarified how understand the term. Yes, it is easy enough to look up the dictionary, but I find that in real life many people either add or detract from true meanings.

In its simplest form Zionism is the advocacy for a "Jewish homeland."
If you are for it why? Maybe only partially? If you are against it why? Partially?
If you cold implement your ideas how would you solve the current conflict?

[bunny]

to me, zionism is nothing more than another form of radical, extremist religion.

to me, zionism is racism, at the expense of a religiously steeped ideology.

[The Comrade]

Quote: Zionism is a political movement that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel.


that's the only true definition of Zionism.

[ALi*]

bunny wrote: to me, zionism is nothing more than another form of radical, extremist religion.

to me, zionism is racism, at the expense of a religiously steeped ideology.

+++++ couldnt agree more
but also would like to add "criminality" , "terrorism" 2 very important caracteristics of zionism :!:

[MoscowMatt]

ALi* wrote: bunny wrote: to me, zionism is nothing more than another form of radical, extremist religion.

to me, zionism is racism, at the expense of a religiously steeped ideology.

+++++ couldnt agree more
but also would like to add "criminality" , "terrorism" 2 very important caracteristics of zionism :!:
:roll: :roll:

Zionism is a political movement that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel, where Jewish nationhood is thought to have evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and late Second Temple times,[1][2] and where Jewish kingdoms and self-governing states existed up to the 2nd century CE.

In general, Zionism can be defined (as does Webster's 11th Collegiate Dictionary) as "an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel." It has been described as a diaspora nationalism.[3] Its proponents regard it as a national liberation movement.[4]

While Zionism is based in part upon religious tradition linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, the modern movement was mainly secular, beginning largely as a response to rampant antisemitism in Europe during the 19th century.At first one of several Jewish political movements offering alternative responses to the position of Jews in Europe, Zionism gradually gained more support. The destruction of the existing Jewish society in Europe during the Holocaust accelerated migration to Palestine, in turn accelerating the creation of the State of Israel in 1948. Since 1948 Zionism is a national ideology within the State of Israel.In recent years the term Zionism has been adopted by anti-Semitic groups as a way to avoid the stigma associated with the outright hatred of Jews. These groups make use of the existence of non-Jewish Zionists to mitigate their standpoint when under scrutiny.


Lifted from wikipedia but it sums things up nicely.

It's just ignorant fools like yourself who think it is to do with terror!! :lol:

[bunny]

MoscowMatt wrote:
It's just ignorant fools like yourself who think it is to do with terror!! :lol:

I'm sorry, but this "ignorant fool" would like to know where i mentioned anything about terrorism?


(btw, I love the double standard on these boards when it comes to trolling, baiting & name calling)


STFU or get it right!

[The Comrade]

he was talking about Ali*.


and you've claimed Israel is nothing but a terrorist state in other threads, so i don't really see why you're defending yourself right now.

[bunny]

The Comrade wrote: he was talking about Ali*.


and you've claimed Israel is nothing but a terrorist state in other threads, so i don't really see why you're defending yourself right now.

1. he said fools, while quoting us both

2. where have i said that Israel is a terrorist state? quote me, or likewise, STFU & get it right!

[slitedeviance]

My thoughts on Zionism?

It's a belief people have and as such I cannot condemn them for having it. I can condemn some of the actions that are supposedly carried out in the name of Zionism, and like any belief, if followed to extremes may prove to be very dangerous in certain situations. It's nothing new, it's nothing special, it's just a POV.

[The Comrade]

bunny wrote: reads, so i don't really see why you're defending yourself right now.

1. he said fools, while quoting us both

2. where have i said that Israel is a terrorist state? quote me, or likewise, STFU & get it right![/quote]



rather, prove to me that you don't believe israel is a terrorist state. i've made my claim, time for you to defend yourself.

[slitedeviance]

The Comrade wrote: rather, prove to me that you don't believe israel is a terrorist state. i've made my claim, time for you to defend yourself.

Not quite....

The burden of proof always lies with the claimant (I work with contracts and legalities so I deal with this every day). You have made a claim that he maintains a position which he denies. Therefore it is your responsibility to prove this as you should have hard evidence to back a claim. If you are unable to provide evidence your claim cannot be proven and therefore is discarded.

[agentkgb]

I don't really support a Jewish homeland any more than I would support a Mormon homeland (randomly selected religion, I don't have anything against Mormons). If, within a preexisting nation, people of a certain religion want to keep to themselves, I don't care so long as they don't commit crimes and they pay their taxes, but a state based on a religion isn't something I think I could support.

[bunny]

The Comrade wrote:



rather, prove to me that you don't believe israel is a terrorist state. i've made my claim, time for you to defend yourself.

WTF??

I never said it, hence i need to prove nothing. If you are accusing me of saying it, then a quote would prove you correct & you should show & share your evidence to back up your claim. But, if you cannot prove anything, then you have no argument, and your words hold no water.

Like I said, prove it, or STFU.

[The Comrade]

bunny wrote: The Comrade wrote:



rather, prove to me that you don't believe israel is a terrorist state. i've made my claim, time for you to defend yourself.

WTF??

I never said it, hence i need to prove nothing. If you are accusing me of saying it, then a quote would prove you correct & you should show & share your evidence to back up your claim. But, if you cannot prove anything, then you have no argument, and your words hold no water.

Like I said, prove it, or STFU.


you're posts are dripping with implications, but nothing solid, so i retract my public statement.




oh, say STFU one more time, it reminds me of my days in the seventh grade.

[superskippy]

Zionism in it's most base and most common form simply supports the state of Israel and the Jewish homeland of it. It used to be supporting the creation of a Jewish Homeland but that is now a moot point.

[bunny]

The Comrade wrote:

you're posts are dripping with implications, but nothing solid, so i retract my public statement.



If you think I am implying somehting, but unsure.. why don't you just ask me to clarify? Instead of assuming things onto me & putting words into my mouth.

Just because we have a difference of opinion on certian issues, doesn't mean we can't respect each other. When have I ever assumed anything onto you? Or even suggested that your post imply a certian POV, as per what I read into them (as per what you seem to enjoy doing; IE reading things into other peoples posts, or is it just me?)

[MoscowMatt]

bunny wrote: MoscowMatt wrote:
It's just ignorant fools like yourself who think it is to do with terror!! :lol:

I'm sorry, but this "ignorant fool" would like to know where i mentioned anything about terrorism?


(btw, I love the double standard on these boards when it comes to trolling, baiting & name calling)


STFU or get it right!

Was I refering to you? Er No. So shove it where the sun don't shine mate!!
:xx:

[slitedeviance]

MoscowMatt wrote: So shove it where the sun don't shine mate!!
:xx:

Manchester :!?:

[unclesamual]

Zionism is a racist ideology. What other interpretation can be made for the Israeli law that Jews specifically have a right of return?

In Germany's oppression post WWI being blamed (and charged extensively) for the conflict even though the Blackhand assassinating the Archduke Ferdinand was the real cause, they turned to extremist actiivities and extremist leaders. So to has the Jewish people in their oppression in the Holocaust (and Pogroms beforehand) turned to extremist means of violent invasion of a country not rightfully theirs. So to has the Palestinian people in their diaspora turned to extremist measures in their fight (with racial bigotry a piece of it as occured in the 3 previous cases).

You put people in dire conditions, and they turn to extremism. The cycle, in our supposed civility of the 21st century, has not stopped. Zionism is a piece of it all.

[John Galt]

Well this thread went no where fast.