Political Crossfire Forums

Richard Owl Mirror · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9002

Today while driving to the market we saw, lined up along the roadway for an entire mile, a group standing along the side holding placards reading "Abortion is Murder" and other such slogans.

I wonder how many of the same people are only "Pro-Life ~ from Conception to Birth" :!?:

I don't know anything more about this group other than a whole lot of people donated their time to stand in protest.
Yet, with such an army of like-minded citizens I'm left wondering how else they could utilize that same time?
Are they willing to take in a young mother, support her during and after the birth?
Provide Medical and Dental Insurance for the child, make sure they get a first class education so they do not grow up and join a gang or sell drugs or steal for a living?

In my Opinion, if you want the power to tell another human being they MUST continue a pregnancy and raise the child all on your own, then you should also be willing to provide care and direction for the children for the next 18 years in conjunction with the mother.

Green · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject:

As you may know, Bush should go to hell. Reasons are that he supports abortion, and he doesn't really care about the people who go to bead hungry each night. He only cares about his friends at Haliburton and with money.

So... as you see, the government has the constitutional duty to protect life.
Bush is not doing this, and thus he should get a b*** **b so we can impeach him.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 15051

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Today while driving to the market we saw, lined up along the roadway for an entire mile, a group standing along the side holding placards reading "Abortion is Murder" and other such slogans.

I wonder how many of the same people are only "Pro-Life ~ from Conception to Birth" :!?:

I don't know anything more about this group other than a whole lot of people donated their time to stand in protest.
Yet, with such an army of like-minded citizens I'm left wondering how else they could utilize that same time?
Are they willing to take in a young mother, support her during and after the birth?
Provide Medical and Dental Insurance for the child, make sure they get a first class education so they do not grow up and join a gang or sell drugs or steal for a living?

In my Opinion, if you want the power to tell another human being they MUST continue a pregnancy and raise the child all on your own, then you should also be willing to provide care and direction for the children for the next 18 years in conjunction with the mother.

You're right, Richard; you don't know very much about the pro-life movement. Let me assure you that those who are willing to take their time to pray in front of abortion clinics and to participate in this weekend's "Life Chain," which is what you saw, donate their treasure and talent as well as their time. What you saw was just a visible reminder of how many citizens are opposed to abortion-on-demand.

I realize that it would probably make many pro-choicers happy to believe that those who support life "only" carry placards or stand on the street protesting, but this simply isn't so.

Another insulting myth is that those of us who are pro-life care only about the unborn but don't give a damn about the babies who are born.
Put simply, this is a lie. Through Project Gabriel, which is the program my church supports (but there are many others) and what are called "crisis-pregnancy clinics," pregnant women are offered homes in which to live, job-training and jobs, child care assistance, and a host of other kinds of support.

My community has also begun a baby bank to help with money, cribs, diapers, formula, medical assistance, and etc. those mothers who choose to keep their babies. Physicians and lawyers donate their time to help with prenatal care and also the legalities of adoption.

Selfish_Meme · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 726

Lumina wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Today while driving to the market we saw, lined up along the roadway for an entire mile, a group standing along the side holding placards reading "Abortion is Murder" and other such slogans.

I wonder how many of the same people are only "Pro-Life ~ from Conception to Birth" :!?:

I don't know anything more about this group other than a whole lot of people donated their time to stand in protest.
Yet, with such an army of like-minded citizens I'm left wondering how else they could utilize that same time?
Are they willing to take in a young mother, support her during and after the birth?
Provide Medical and Dental Insurance for the child, make sure they get a first class education so they do not grow up and join a gang or sell drugs or steal for a living?

In my Opinion, if you want the power to tell another human being they MUST continue a pregnancy and raise the child all on your own, then you should also be willing to provide care and direction for the children for the next 18 years in conjunction with the mother.

You're right, Richard; you don't know very much about the pro-life movement. Let me assure you that those who are willing to take their time to pray in front of abortion clinics and to participate in this weekend's "Life Chain," which is what you saw, donate their treasure and talent as well as their time. What you saw was just a visible reminder of how many citizens are opposed to abortion-on-demand.

I realize that it would probably make many pro-choicers happy to believe that those who support life "only" carry placards or stand on the street protesting, but this simply isn't so.

Another insulting myth is that those of us who are pro-life care only about the unborn but don't give a damn about the babies who are born.
Put simply, this is a lie. Through Project Gabriel, which is the program my church supports (but there are many others) and what are called "crisis-pregnancy clinics," pregnant women are offered homes in which to live, job-training and jobs, child care assistance, and a host of other kinds of support.

My community has also begun a baby bank to help with money, cribs, diapers, formula, medical assistance, and etc. those mothers who choose to keep their babies. Physicians and lawyers donate their time to help with prenatal care and also the legalities of adoption.
As Lumina likes to point out she is not connected to the biggest pro-life group in the country, the republican party, their aims are a little less warm and fuzzy.
Eliminate abortions
Make rich people richer and damn the poor.

Richard Owl Mirror · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9002

Lumina wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Today while driving to the market we saw, lined up along the roadway for an entire mile, a group standing along the side holding placards reading "Abortion is Murder" and other such slogans.

I wonder how many of the same people are only "Pro-Life ~ from Conception to Birth" :!?:

I don't know anything more about this group other than a whole lot of people donated their time to stand in protest.
Yet, with such an army of like-minded citizens I'm left wondering how else they could utilize that same time?
Are they willing to take in a young mother, support her during and after the birth?
Provide Medical and Dental Insurance for the child, make sure they get a first class education so they do not grow up and join a gang or sell drugs or steal for a living?

In my Opinion, if you want the power to tell another human being they MUST continue a pregnancy and raise the child all on your own, then you should also be willing to provide care and direction for the children for the next 18 years in conjunction with the mother.

You're right, Richard; you don't know very much about the pro-life movement. Let me assure you that those who are willing to take their time to pray in front of abortion clinics and to participate in this weekend's "Life Chain," which is what you saw, donate their treasure and talent as well as their time. What you saw was just a visible reminder of how many citizens are opposed to abortion-on-demand.

I realize that it would probably make many pro-choicers happy to believe that those who support life "only" carry placards or stand on the street protesting, but this simply isn't so.

Another insulting myth is that those of us who are pro-life care only about the unborn but don't give a damn about the babies who are born.
Put simply, this is a lie. Through Project Gabriel, which is the program my church supports (but there are many others) and what are called "crisis-pregnancy clinics," pregnant women are offered homes in which to live, job-training and jobs, child care assistance, and a host of other kinds of support.

My community has also begun a baby bank to help with money, cribs, diapers, formula, medical assistance, and etc. those mothers who choose to keep their babies. Physicians and lawyers donate their time to help with prenatal care and also the legalities of adoption.

Well, I would hope it is as you say.
I still do not see how an unaffected person should have the right to dictate how another persons decisions should be conducted.

What if my fictitious proposal: People for the Protection of Pets from Passive Smoking were enacted?
Would it be fair for me to require fellow citizens to never smoke around their cats, dogs or birds?

The Pets have no voice, they are virtual prisoners without escape from
the destructive damage wrought by second-hand smoke.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 15051

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Lumina wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Today while driving to the market we saw, lined up along the roadway for an entire mile, a group standing along the side holding placards reading "Abortion is Murder" and other such slogans.

I wonder how many of the same people are only "Pro-Life ~ from Conception to Birth" :!?:

I don't know anything more about this group other than a whole lot of people donated their time to stand in protest.
Yet, with such an army of like-minded citizens I'm left wondering how else they could utilize that same time?
Are they willing to take in a young mother, support her during and after the birth?
Provide Medical and Dental Insurance for the child, make sure they get a first class education so they do not grow up and join a gang or sell drugs or steal for a living?

In my Opinion, if you want the power to tell another human being they MUST continue a pregnancy and raise the child all on your own, then you should also be willing to provide care and direction for the children for the next 18 years in conjunction with the mother.

You're right, Richard; you don't know very much about the pro-life movement. Let me assure you that those who are willing to take their time to pray in front of abortion clinics and to participate in this weekend's "Life Chain," which is what you saw, donate their treasure and talent as well as their time. What you saw was just a visible reminder of how many citizens are opposed to abortion-on-demand.

I realize that it would probably make many pro-choicers happy to believe that those who support life "only" carry placards or stand on the street protesting, but this simply isn't so.

Another insulting myth is that those of us who are pro-life care only about the unborn but don't give a damn about the babies who are born.
Put simply, this is a lie. Through Project Gabriel, which is the program my church supports (but there are many others) and what are called "crisis-pregnancy clinics," pregnant women are offered homes in which to live, job-training and jobs, child care assistance, and a host of other kinds of support.

My community has also begun a baby bank to help with money, cribs, diapers, formula, medical assistance, and etc. those mothers who choose to keep their babies. Physicians and lawyers donate their time to help with prenatal care and also the legalities of adoption.

Well, I would hope it is as you say.
I still do not see how an unaffected person should have the right to dictate how another persons decisions should be conducted.

What if my fictitious proposal: People for the Protection of Pets from Passive Smoking were enacted?
Would it be fair for me to require fellow citizens to never smoke around their cats, dogs or birds?

The Pets have no voice, they are virtual prisoners without escape from
the destructive damage wrought by second-hand smoke.

I don't see how any human being could remain unaffected by great evil.

I really don't know what else to say to someone who equates human beings with animals and compares babies to pets.

Prog · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 2243

Lumina wrote: I really don't know what else to say to someone who equates human beings with animals and compares babies to pets.

It was an analogy not a direct comparison! **sigh**

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Selfish_Meme wrote: Lumina wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Today while driving to the market we saw, lined up along the roadway for an entire mile, a group standing along the side holding placards reading "Abortion is Murder" and other such slogans.

I wonder how many of the same people are only "Pro-Life ~ from Conception to Birth" :!?:

I don't know anything more about this group other than a whole lot of people donated their time to stand in protest.
Yet, with such an army of like-minded citizens I'm left wondering how else they could utilize that same time?
Are they willing to take in a young mother, support her during and after the birth?
Provide Medical and Dental Insurance for the child, make sure they get a first class education so they do not grow up and join a gang or sell drugs or steal for a living?

In my Opinion, if you want the power to tell another human being they MUST continue a pregnancy and raise the child all on your own, then you should also be willing to provide care and direction for the children for the next 18 years in conjunction with the mother.

You're right, Richard; you don't know very much about the pro-life movement. Let me assure you that those who are willing to take their time to pray in front of abortion clinics and to participate in this weekend's "Life Chain," which is what you saw, donate their treasure and talent as well as their time. What you saw was just a visible reminder of how many citizens are opposed to abortion-on-demand.

I realize that it would probably make many pro-choicers happy to believe that those who support life "only" carry placards or stand on the street protesting, but this simply isn't so.

Another insulting myth is that those of us who are pro-life care only about the unborn but don't give a damn about the babies who are born.
Put simply, this is a lie. Through Project Gabriel, which is the program my church supports (but there are many others) and what are called "crisis-pregnancy clinics," pregnant women are offered homes in which to live, job-training and jobs, child care assistance, and a host of other kinds of support.

My community has also begun a baby bank to help with money, cribs, diapers, formula, medical assistance, and etc. those mothers who choose to keep their babies. Physicians and lawyers donate their time to help with prenatal care and also the legalities of adoption.
As Lumina likes to point out she is not connected to the biggest pro-life group in the country, the republican party, their aims are a little less warm and fuzzy.
Eliminate abortions
Make rich people richer and damn the poor.

How does elimination of abortion make the rich richer?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Today while driving to the market we saw, lined up along the roadway for an entire mile, a group standing along the side holding placards reading "Abortion is Murder" and other such slogans.

I wonder how many of the same people are only "Pro-Life ~ from Conception to Birth" :!?:

I don't know anything more about this group other than a whole lot of people donated their time to stand in protest.
Yet, with such an army of like-minded citizens I'm left wondering how else they could utilize that same time?
Are they willing to take in a young mother, support her during and after the birth?
Provide Medical and Dental Insurance for the child, make sure they get a first class education so they do not grow up and join a gang or sell drugs or steal for a living?

In my Opinion, if you want the power to tell another human being they MUST continue a pregnancy and raise the child all on your own, then you should also be willing to provide care and direction for the children for the next 18 years in conjunction with the mother.

How about making the father and mother get a job pay for their own children? Or perhaps they should put the child up for adoption if they are unable to raise the child.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 15051

Prog wrote: Lumina wrote: I really don't know what else to say to someone who equates human beings with animals and compares babies to pets.

It was an analogy not a direct comparison! **sigh**

Fine. Then learn the basics about analogy: There has to be more similar than dissimilar for an analogy to work. ***sigh***

Prog · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 2243

Lumina wrote: Prog wrote: Lumina wrote: I really don't know what else to say to someone who equates human beings with animals and compares babies to pets.

It was an analogy not a direct comparison! **sigh**

Fine. Then learn the basics about analogy: There has to be more similar than dissimilar for an analogy to work. ***sigh***

Think some more about this analogy Lumina. What is analogous here, that is, what point is the analogy illustrating?

1. Babies are equal to pets/animals? OR......

2. The possible consequences involving the actions of that weekend's "Life Chain" compared to the hypothetical "People for the Protection of Pets from Passive Smoking"?

1 or 2 Lumina, your choice.

John Galt · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 20672 Location: Minnesota

Richard Owl Mirror wrote:
In my Opinion, if you want the power to tell another human being they MUST continue a pregnancy and raise the child all on your own, then you should also be willing to provide care and direction for the children for the next 18 years in conjunction with the mother.

Why? Abortion IS the killing of a human being by another human being which has another name: murder.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 15051

Prog wrote: Lumina wrote: Prog wrote: Lumina wrote: I really don't know what else to say to someone who equates human beings with animals and compares babies to pets.

It was an analogy not a direct comparison! **sigh**

Fine. Then learn the basics about analogy: There has to be more similar than dissimilar for an analogy to work. ***sigh***

Think some more about this analogy Lumina. What is analogous here, that is, what point is the analogy illustrating?

1. Babies are equal to pets/animals? OR......

2. The possible consequences involving the actions of that weekend's "Life Chain" compared to the hypothetical "People for the Protection of Pets from Passive Smoking"?

1 or 2 Lumina, your choice.

The point is that you're trying to draw an analogy between human beings and animals and that is doesn't work. Once again, for an analogy to work, there has to be more similar than dissimilar. So on the face of it, your analogy fails. Humans aren't animals; babies aren't pets. Get it?

If not, try Googling "analogy." Don't believe me; just study up.

Prog · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 2243

Lumina wrote: The point is that you're trying to draw an analogy between human beings and animals and that is doesn't work. Once again, for an analogy to work, there has to be more similar than dissimilar. So on the face of it, your analogy fails. Humans aren't animals; babies aren't pets. Get it?

What I don't get is whether you are honestly missing the point of the analogy or simply insistent upon serving me the same red herring.

(BTW - humans (Homo sapiens) are considered a form of animal .. look it up.)

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Protecting animals from second hand smoke is patently ridiculous.

Saving millions of innocent human lives is not.

Do you see now how come your analogy is not applicable?

Gilbert1908 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 5089 Location: Boston, MA

cap'n queasy wrote: Protecting animals from second hand smoke is patently ridiculous.

Saving millions of innocent human lives is not.

Do you see now how come your analogy is not applicable?

You may be right, but presently this kind of law is in place in local jurisdictions around the country.

There are several cities and towns where smoking both OUTSIDE and in your home is banned.

Some can lose their jobs for smoking, we now accept no smoking anywhere in public buildings as normal.

And one of the great ironies of these bans is that one of the arguments is that 2nd hand smoke can effect PREGNANCY!!!!

I don't smoke so I am happy if no one else does, but if you can't find the irony in knowing how many anti smokers are PROCHOICE then you just don't have a sense of humor.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7657

John Galt wrote: Abortion IS the killing of a human being by another human being which has another name: murder.

:tsk:

It has to be illegal for it to be murder.

As long as its legal, it cannot be murder.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7657

cap'n queasy wrote: Protecting animals from second hand smoke is patently ridiculous.

Saving millions of innocent human lives is not.

Do you see now how come your analogy is not applicable?

Life = Life.

Pets and unborn persons cannot speak for themselves.

Smoking and abortion both cause harm.

For your retort to work, you'd have to prove that Human Life > Animal Life.

Gilbert1908 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 5089 Location: Boston, MA

LostSoul3412 wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Protecting animals from second hand smoke is patently ridiculous.

Saving millions of innocent human lives is not.

Do you see now how come your analogy is not applicable?

Life = Life.

Pets and unborn persons cannot speak for themselves.

Smoking and abortion both cause harm.

For your retort to work, you'd have to prove that Human Life > Animal Life.

Would you raise, slaughter and eat a human?

JayDubya · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1910 Location: Texas

Um. The fetus has a right to live. Richard, as per usual, is expressing his "progressive liberal" a.k.a. socialist viewpoint.

As I said, the fetus has a right to live. Beyond birth, it continues to have... a right to live. You're going to claim that our ideology puts out a lot of unwanted children - "What happens to them?" you'll ask.

* * *

Here's a compromise I'd make with you, though. Children deserve every opportunity to make something out of themselves. Adults don't.

By the way, if you ever get to read some P.J. O'Rourke books, he advocates something similar, and balances the budget very, very quickly. :lol:

Remove (or privatize where applicable) social welfare, medicaid, medicare, social security, and any number of governmental organizations (FEMA, FDA...). I'm sure I'm forgetting some useless incidental drivel like the Federal Endowment of the Arts, but I think you get the point. The revenue saved each year will more than cover 18 years of room, board, education, and quite a few luxury items for every ward of the state. Of course, this money shouldn't just be handed out on a use-or-lose basis like everything else the retarded federal government does, but that's another reform that the nation needs. Meanwhile, we can start chipping away at that obscene national debt.

Furthermore, remove all fees for adoption - why on Earth would someone have to pay thousands of dollars to do the state a favor is beyond me. The government could even incentivize adoption with things like tax breaks.

Deal? Awesome. In otherwords, socialistic ideology is somewhat understandable as a reasonable compromise for children because it isn't a child's fault their parents are poor. It is, however, the parents' fault, and not everyone else's problem.