Political Crossfire Forums

[Paladin]

The invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan creates new democratic countries with good relations with the U.S throughout the Middle East. It puts more pressure on Iran and Syria creating multiple borders with U.S. friendly countries. These are strategic locations, ensuring U.S. influence in the Middle East as bases for preventative measures of further terrorism.

The casus belli (by 9/11, the oppresive regimes, and the funding of terror cells) towards Iraq and Afghanistan provided for this liberation and thus the stemming of future acts of aggression by indignants(who are so by percieved or actual discretions of Israel and the U.S.), being as they are heads of state or organized syndicates of terror.



This seems more reasonable than the theories tending towards: oil and more executive power to control the people.

[Snake]

No, it's about global warming. The liberals started the war so they could destroy the flow of oil, thus rendering suv's useless. They then blamed everything on Bush, and made him out to be the devil, and they almost got away with it......

[Medius]

I would agree it is much more reasonable, if you have no concept of reality and actually believe that nation building works.

[Paladin]

Kamel wrote: No, it's about global warming. The liberals started the war so they could destroy the flow of oil, thus rendering suv's useless. They then blamed everything on Bush, and made him out to be the devil, and they almost got away with it......

If I wanted a stupid comment I would have put this in the political humor forum.

[Snake]

If you didn't want to hear stupid comments, you shouldn't have posted a thread in alternate theories.

[Medius]

Kamel wrote: If you didn't want to hear stupid comments, you shouldn't have posted a thread in alternate theories.

Believe it or not, there used to be civil discussions here before people started coming in and taking pot-shots at everyone.

Not choosing to believe conspiracy theories is a perfectly acceptable state of existance. Marginalizing and hating those who do, to the point of disrupting threads is, at best, rude.

Paladin is simply trying to understand the conspiracy theorist's viewpoint and had put forth an assertion that his non-conspiracy explanation makes more sense than the conspiracy explanation.

As I mentioned in my post, while I don't necessarily subscribe to the conspiracy angle, I do not believe that those running this country could rationally believe that any lasting peace can come of nation building, which has shown itself to be temporary at best and utter failure at worst.

[Snake]

In my opinion, it's pretty sad when people like Micheal Moore and Alex Jones can get away with getting in peoples faces, and use people for their own agendas, and people take every word they say as truth. But when someone makes a joke, they get scalded as though it were the degradation of a society

[Medius]

Kamel wrote: In my opinion, it's pretty sad when people like Micheal Moore and Alex Jones can get away with getting in peoples faces, and use people for their own agendas, and people take every word they say as truth. But when someone makes a joke, they get scalded as though it were the degradation of a society

I'm not sure what you are going on about with Michael Moore. He's a putz, but I wouldn't label him a conspiracy theorist. Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorists, but a lot of the conspiracy theorists here are skeptical of his work.

As for accusing these two for using people to support their agenda, you would have to show how their agenda doesn't coincide with what they are saying. There is a difference between using people and being supported by people.

There's nothing wrong with making a joke, but it is good to make a point as well, this being a debate/discussion forum. There is a humor forum for posts that are only jokes. Besides this fact, one person making a joke still would not be a problem, however, when an entire group of people come in and do nothing but joke, it makes it very difficult to hold a decent debate.

[Paladin]

Kamel wrote: In my opinion, it's pretty sad when people like Micheal Moore and Alex Jones can get away with getting in peoples faces, and use people for their own agendas, and people take every word they say as truth. But when someone makes a joke, they get scalded as though it were the degradation of a society

I apologize then. I just can't tell if someone is joking or just trying to belittle me. I usually expect of these little guys-> :lol: <- near jokes. Btw, Michael Moore is a fat man...a very fat man. He is someone I would label as a Phatty McPhatterson...No joke! :)


Well...It seems no one gives any credibility to the idea, though it seems reasonable to me. I just wanted to talk to people on the other reasons it could be. After World War II the U.S. became a Liberator for Freedom and I was speculating the choice of liberation.

[Snake]

No, actually I pondered this same thing a while back, it seems plausible, but I'm an azshole, and I was a little frustrated with the avid believers of the 9/11 conspiracy. Sorry for screwing up your thread. :(

[Mighty Oak]

I can sum this up for you,start reading the PNAC documents.The Neo-cons are following their plan the best I can tell.

[Paladin]

I blame the....ok I don't blame anyone. Maybe if I had 10,000 more posts than I would be slightly more credible for a response :(

[The Newb]

it seems plausible let me ponder on it a bit

[Paladin]

The Newb wrote: it seems plausible let me ponder on it a bit

How's your pondering going Newb? :wink:

[Norrin Radd]

Medius wrote: Kamel wrote: If you didn't want to hear stupid comments, you shouldn't have posted a thread in alternate theories.

Believe it or not, there used to be civil discussions here before people started coming in and taking pot-shots at everyone.

Not choosing to believe conspiracy theories is a perfectly acceptable state of existance. Marginalizing and hating those who do, to the point of disrupting threads is, at best, rude.

Paladin is simply trying to understand the conspiracy theorist's viewpoint and had put forth an assertion that his non-conspiracy explanation makes more sense than the conspiracy explanation.

As I mentioned in my post, while I don't necessarily subscribe to the conspiracy angle, I do not believe that those running this country could rationally believe that any lasting peace can come of nation building, which has shown itself to be temporary at best and utter failure at worst.

A few people here obviously have no way to feel good about themselves so they come here and attempt to feel superior by posting childish insults and parroting back establishment sound bites.

These few people are typical closed minded people who are unable to use logic and reason. It is sad, because there are some really nice people here.

[Norrin Radd]

Kamel wrote: In my opinion, it's pretty sad when people like Micheal Moore and Alex Jones can get away with getting in peoples faces, and use people for their own agendas, and people take every word they say as truth. But when someone makes a joke, they get scalded as though it were the degradation of a society

And others take everything George Bush says as truth, or CNN, or FOX News, or Bill Clinton, well maybe not slick Willie, but you get the idea.

There are sheeple everywhere. Some believe everything they read pro-establishment, while others believe everything they read anti-establishment. What is rare is the person who is willing to actually research the topic before forming an opinion.

I believe you said something about TWA 800 and not believing the official story, is this correct. Sorry, but sometimes I forget who said what.

If you do belive there was a coverup of TWA 800 and that the government got away with this, then surely you must find it difficult to trust everything the government tells us. Don't you?

[The Newb]

Paladin wrote: The Newb wrote: it seems plausible let me ponder on it a bit

How's your pondering going Newb? :wink:

seems more resonable than oil

sorry it took so long to get back, i was laying the smack down on the libs in P&G

[Paladin]

It would be rather impossible to wage a war against Iran with our current lack reason other than pre-emptive (which is not going to happen after the Iraqi/Afghani Wars especially). Occupation would be near impossible and it would cause huge repurcussions through the Muslim world seeing the head Christian nation taking aggressive actions against a major Muslim theocratic regime.
With Iran on the verge of Nuclear capability and all of Iran's 'posse'(Syria, Lebanon{well at least militant groups} and the like) following along it seems reasonable to have friendly Muslim regimes (oh, I'm sorry I mean democratic regimes).

Biggest threat to America? Bred hate inside other countries with large support finacially and numerically. And now (with the assistance of our friends Russia, France, and China) a new NuclearWeapons-verge Iran! Anti-Semitic hostilities....

My My. What more could be the reasons for invasion, occupation, development, and withdrawal? There won't be any Soviet-era-like puppet regimes.

[Paladin]

Medius wrote: Kamel wrote: If you didn't want to hear stupid comments, you shouldn't have posted a thread in alternate theories.

Believe it or not, there used to be civil discussions here before people started coming in and taking pot-shots at everyone.

Not choosing to believe conspiracy theories is a perfectly acceptable state of existance. Marginalizing and hating those who do, to the point of disrupting threads is, at best, rude. [/quote]
Thank you! :)

Medius wrote:

Paladin is simply trying to understand the conspiracy theorist's viewpoint and had put forth an assertion that his non-conspiracy explanation makes more sense than the conspiracy explanation.

As I mentioned in my post, while I don't necessarily subscribe to the conspiracy angle, I do not believe that those running this country could rationally believe that any lasting peace can come of nation building, which has shown itself to be temporary at best and utter failure at worst.

We have pretty good relations with Japan! And South Korea. And the Philippines. And all of Europe (if we can stretch the reconstruction).

Strategic Layouts at the least would be achieved.

[Medius]

Paladin wrote: Thank you! :)

No problem, I think you have to respect everyone's viewpoint to engage in a fruitful debate.

When it comes to conspiracy theories I am purposefully on the fence. Right now the evidence that points to conspiracies could be attributed to a group of people or a random progression of policy due to some systematic malfunction. Either way, the results are dangerous, so I don't care so much whether it is a shadowy group of people or not. If we limit the power of those in charge, it limits their ability to purposefully or accidentally cause damage to our country.

Paladin wrote:
We have pretty good relations with Japan! And South Korea. And the Philippines. And all of Europe (if we can stretch the reconstruction).

Strategic Layouts at the least would be achieved.

I'm not fully up to speed on the Phillipines.

Japan is a bit unique in that they were defeated and surrendered in what (in my opinion) was the last real war. While we assisted them to rebuild their government, it was still a voluntary response to a situation that they knew was out of their control.

South Korea was fighting for their freedom when the United States intervened on their behalf. While we drove the war, it was to retain a freedom that they already wanted to keep. America did not initiate the revolution.

Basically, I think the primary difference is that the people must be willing and ready to adopt whatever government is being installed. For a democracy this is especially important as non-participation will ensure a return to dictatorial control. If the people of Iraq had initiated a significant rebellion and we had stepped in to help, then it would be a different story. Instead, we stepped in and acted as the rebellion and simply tossed the reigns back to those who were not yet at the point of accepting responsibility for their own futures. Not only that, but we did so in such a way that many of these people aren't sure whether to be happy with the result or be angry at America for taking such liberties with their own lives.