Political Crossfire Forums

[cap'n queasy]

Obviously it is a form of theft.

[Gus]

cap'n queasy wrote: Obviously it is a form of theft.
No...it is entirely a copyright issue...copyrights explicitly give the sole right to copy the manifestation of an idea, and pirating something merely violates that right to make a copy of something. It is entirely different from theft.

[KalRhael]

I sure have, but I only pirate really old games or games that I already owned and lost. Heck my brother is a videogame developer and pirates stuff from time to time :lol: Doesn't make me feel bad, infact after i pirated an old videogame, i feel kinda good that the dev's of the game can know their old games are still being played to this date :-D

I also have a knack for pirating old but poorly designed games. those are a **** to find though since not alot of people like to host them, but I like to play them anyways just to get a feeling that im in the 90's again :lol:

[FCTE]

Gus wrote: Now, Steam also pretty much takes over your computer, but that's an entirely different issue...

It's not THAT bad.

[LetsGetReal]

Gus wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Obviously it is a form of theft.
No...it is entirely a copyright issue...copyrights explicitly give the sole right to copy the manifestation of an idea, and pirating something merely violates that right to make a copy of something. It is entirely different from theft. No its not it's just a different word to explain it. This whole way to make words meaningless is quite ridiculous. Piracy is the stealing of ones idea by copying it to a cd or what ever storage device you would like to use.

Stealing involves ownership proto and the corps/people own those ideas you felt weren't worth paying for.

[FCTE]

LetsGetReal wrote: Gus wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Obviously it is a form of theft.
No...it is entirely a copyright issue...copyrights explicitly give the sole right to copy the manifestation of an idea, and pirating something merely violates that right to make a copy of something. It is entirely different from theft. No its not it's just a different word to explain it. This whole way to make words meaningless is quite ridiculous. Piracy is the stealing of ones idea by copying it to a cd or what ever storage device you would like to use.

Stealing involves ownership proto and the corps/people own those ideas you felt weren't worth paying for.

Not really.

If I broke into your car, hotwired it, and drove off in it, that would be stealing, but if I could clone your car 100% while leaving the original car perfectly in tact for you to keep and use, that is not stealing......and no one has lost anything.

I win! :-D

[LetsGetReal]

FCTE wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Gus wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Obviously it is a form of theft.
No...it is entirely a copyright issue...copyrights explicitly give the sole right to copy the manifestation of an idea, and pirating something merely violates that right to make a copy of something. It is entirely different from theft. No its not it's just a different word to explain it. This whole way to make words meaningless is quite ridiculous. Piracy is the stealing of ones idea by copying it to a cd or what ever storage device you would like to use.

Stealing involves ownership proto and the corps/people own those ideas you felt weren't worth paying for.

Not really.

If I broke into your car, hotwired it, and drove off in it, that would be stealing, but if I could clone your car 100% while leaving the original car perfectly in tact for you to keep and use, that is not stealing......and no one has lost anything.

I win! :-D That would be stealing the design, the layout, etc... But if you were to purchase all the items and put it together yourself it is not stealing because you paid for everything. But since people don't pay for the files that would be stealing. :wink:

[Protostar]

LetsGetReal wrote: FCTE wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Gus wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Obviously it is a form of theft.
No...it is entirely a copyright issue...copyrights explicitly give the sole right to copy the manifestation of an idea, and pirating something merely violates that right to make a copy of something. It is entirely different from theft. No its not it's just a different word to explain it. This whole way to make words meaningless is quite ridiculous. Piracy is the stealing of ones idea by copying it to a cd or what ever storage device you would like to use.

Stealing involves ownership proto and the corps/people own those ideas you felt weren't worth paying for.

Not really.

If I broke into your car, hotwired it, and drove off in it, that would be stealing, but if I could clone your car 100% while leaving the original car perfectly in tact for you to keep and use, that is not stealing......and no one has lost anything.

I win! :-D That would be stealing the design, the layout, etc... But if you were to purchase all the items and put it together yourself it is not stealing because you paid for everything. But since people don't pay for the files that would be stealing. :wink:

And again, stealing would imply that someone has lost possession of the files. How is that possible if I am copying it?

[LetsGetReal]

Protostar wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: FCTE wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Gus wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Obviously it is a form of theft.
No...it is entirely a copyright issue...copyrights explicitly give the sole right to copy the manifestation of an idea, and pirating something merely violates that right to make a copy of something. It is entirely different from theft. No its not it's just a different word to explain it. This whole way to make words meaningless is quite ridiculous. Piracy is the stealing of ones idea by copying it to a cd or what ever storage device you would like to use.

Stealing involves ownership proto and the corps/people own those ideas you felt weren't worth paying for.

Not really.

If I broke into your car, hotwired it, and drove off in it, that would be stealing, but if I could clone your car 100% while leaving the original car perfectly in tact for you to keep and use, that is not stealing......and no one has lost anything.

I win! :-D That would be stealing the design, the layout, etc... But if you were to purchase all the items and put it together yourself it is not stealing because you paid for everything. But since people don't pay for the files that would be stealing. :wink:

And again, stealing would imply that someone has lost possession of the files. How is that possible if I am copying it? OWNERSHIP NOT POSSESION there is a little bit of a difference :wink:.

[FCTE]

P2P/Bittorrent.......growing ten million users every year. 8:)

[Sid]

It's not theft of property per say, but it's theft of time. Why do people spend hundreds of hours programming every little spell in a game? For the satisfaction? Hell no, they do it to make a living.

By pirating games, you are having game developers sitting at their desks for hours, and not paying them. Theft of Service.

Pirating = teh suxxors.

[The Comrade]

i just pirated 200 songs.




i'm so evil, right?



if i pirated a game thougn, i would f***ing be hitler.

[bob.appleyard]

Intellectual property is not like any other kind of property. If I think of an idea, and tell someone about it, I still have the idea in my head. Under the system as it stands, if I sell an idea to someone, I still "own" it. Copying something is not stealing it. They're totally different things. Now, that does not mean that the work involved in creation should not be compensated for. But it should not be thought of as property, but as what it actually is: a monopoly on the use of a collection of ideas, imposed by the government, in the hope that ideas continue to be thought up. Motivations other than monetary gain belie many, if not most, advances in human thought. I did not publich my thesis on absolutism because I thought I would make money out of it; many scientists, who contribute valuably to their discipline, do so because they think that they will be rewarded through book sales. They do so because they think that it is valuable to human progress.

Some knowledge of the history behind copyrights and patents is perhaps in order. Copyrights were initially constructed, under the Tudor monarchies, as a tool of censorship -- that is, a body was given the privelege to copy books, pamphlets, and so on. This was partly because the machinery required to copy intellectual works was very expensive, and partly because absolutism was at its height in England at the time. It evolved into an instrument for innovation, if an imperfect one.

The constitutional setup for "intellectual property" is enshrined in Article I, section 8, whereby "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries" such instruments as copyrights and patents were established.

Now that the act of copying is incredibly easy, the rules have to change.

[Demonic Spoon]

Quote: just pirated 200 songs.




i'm so evil, right?



Eh. I don't see much morally wrong with pirating songs normally because record companies are greedy ****.

[The Grandmaster]

FCTE wrote: P2P/Bittorrent.......growing ten million users every year. 8:)

Bittorrent has changed my life. I am a happier person because of it.

[Nathyn]

infirmaryblues wrote: Here are a couple links to such a discussion -

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25054186

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25046141

Two reasons for these links:

Great discussions that stray into politics and economics.

I want to brag.

Note that the early posts are rather ignorant and uninformed, part of the reason the thread evolves into what it does.
Intellectual property is theft.

[Patriot911]

Have I played pirated games? Yes. If I like them, I go buy them. If I don't like them, they get deleted off my system. Same goes with all software I use. In this way, software is very much like music. You usually hear something on the radio before you go buy it. If you don't like what you hear, you don't buy the album / single. If you like what you hear, you should buy the album / single if you want your own copy.

[Gus]

What of those with an audiographic memory? They unintentionally store a copy of every song they hear in their head. Could I be sued for letting one listen to my Shpongle CD?

[Gus]

I think this musician hit the nail on the head.

Quote: A piece of art is not a loaf of bread. When someone steals a loaf of bread from the store, that’s it. The loaf of bread is gone. When someone downloads a piece of music, it’s just data until the listener puts that music back together with their own ears, their mind, their subjective experience. How they perceive your work changes your work.

[Superfly]

I've never been able to tell the difference between downloading a song, and doing what we did in the 80s - either borrowing a record album from a friend, and dubbing it onto a blank cassette tape, or hitting the "record" button when a song you like comes on the radio.

Same with movies. What is the difference in downloading or burning movies, or popping in a blank VCR tape and taping a movie off of HBO?