Political Crossfire Forums

Gaea · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 5579

The latest report on the Trade Deficit says that the US is exporting less goods than they are importing. That means that less goods are being produced or manufactured in the US.

The American consumer is partly to blame for this. But our government bears most of the blame for not protecting the American worker and selling us out by letting our jobs go overseas and leaving jobs that used to be entry level jobs or summer jobs for teenagers.

The jobs being created in this country today are service jobs. Service jobs. What that means is that more people in this country are or soon will be waiting on tables, cleaning other people's fingernails or working at Walmart. This is not the American dream folks. It is the American nightmare. WAKE UP.

The article also mentions that the new Labor Department Report came out and unemployment is rising. And yet... and yet the Bush economists are painting it as a rosy picture.

Quote: Trade Deficit Unexpectedly Widens to a Record

By Joe Richter

Oct. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. trade deficit unexpectedly widened to a record $69.9 billion in August on a jump in imports that pushed the shortfall with China to an all-time high.

The deficit rose 2.7 percent from a $68 billion gap in July, the Commerce Department said in Washington, and exceeded the highest estimate in a Bloomberg News survey of economists. U.S. companies imported more computers, consumer goods and oil even as they shipped a record amount abroad.

The report was read as good news by some U.S. economists, who said it showed that consumer spending is holding up even as the economy slows. A weaker dollar and expansion in Europe and Asia are helping boost exports; at the same time a reduction in the deficit will be gradual because the economy is still growing faster than many of its counterparts.

``Strength in imports is typically associated with strong domestic demand,'' said Jim O'Sullivan, a senior economist at UBS Securities in Stamford, Connecticut. ``Both imports and exports are growing solidly lately, which very broadly is a sign of growth.''

The August deficit compares with the $66.7 billion median estimate in a Bloomberg News survey of 66 economists. The dollar weakened against the euro and yen after the report was released.

In a separate report, the Labor Department said today that first-time claims for jobless benefits rose last week from a two-month low. Claims increased by 4,000 to 308,000 in the week that ended Oct. 7, a level that economists said is still consistent with a resilient labor market.

China Tensions

The politically sensitive deficit with China widened to $22 billion, exceeding the previous record of $20.5 billion reached in October 2005. Today's report showed that imports from China increased to an all-time high of $26.7 billion in August. U.S. exports to the Asian nation fell to $4.8 billion......read
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSiUjXPsHE2g&refer=home

Doncha luv it. Instead of saying the labor market is hurting they are saying it is resilient. Resiliant. So resiliant that even a lowlife job at a McDonalds looks good.

The moral of this story is .... DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE BUSH ECONOMIST TELL YOU.

TheKrava · Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 564 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Moot wrote: The latest report on the Trade Deficit says that the US is exporting less goods than they are importing. That means that less goods are being produced or manufactured in the US.

As for especially stupid - why did you name the thread with word "debt" and in the actual thread you are talking about a trade deficit?

Also.....
You know.... Personally I have a huge trade deficit with my local Target store....... I buy stuff from Target................................ But............ Target never buys anything from me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I"m going to dye from hunger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

The American consumer is partly to blame for this. But our government bears most of the blame for not protecting the American worker and selling us out by letting our jobs go overseas and leaving jobs that used to be entry level jobs or summer jobs for teenagers.

Again.... for especially stupid people.......
Jobs that are being ousourced are mainly manufacturing jobs. Teenagers do not work there. ;)
Quote:
The jobs being created in this country today are service jobs. Service jobs. What that means is that more people in this country are or soon will be waiting on tables, cleaning other people's fingernails or working at Walmart. This is not the American dream folks. It is the American nightmare. WAKE UP.

Well.........
One paragraph above you were talking about jobs for teenagers and now you are talking about American Dream....

So, according to your sick imagination, if a person is being hired to, let's say, Pizza Hut when he/she is 15, he/she should treat the job as an American Dream and work there till retirement....
Stupid...... Sorry...................
Quote:

The moral of this story is .... DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE BUSH ECONOMIST TELL YOU.

Sorry, but you should not believe Dems first, cuz they are the ones who do not know s**t about economics! ;)

Mr. Sunshine · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1324

Check the facts. U.S. economic growth of the last four years EXCEEDS China's whole aggregate economic worth. Pffft. :roll:

CursedLemon

TheKrava wrote:
Again.... for especially stupid people.......
Jobs that are being ousourced are mainly manufacturing jobs. Teenagers do not work there. ;)

To chime in here...my first job was working full time in a paint factory. It was a temp job, but I could've taken a more permanent role had I chosen so.

Gaea · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 5579

TheKrava wrote: Moot wrote: The latest report on the Trade Deficit says that the US is exporting less goods than they are importing. That means that less goods are being produced or manufactured in the US.

As for especially stupid - why did you name the thread with word "debt" and in the actual thread you are talking about a trade deficit?

No need to be an ****. It was an honest mistake that I can fix. See?

Quote: Also.....
You know.... Personally I have a huge trade deficit with my local Target store....... I buy stuff from Target................................ But............ Target never buys anything from me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I"m going to dye from hunger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good for you because deficit also means mentally impaired.

I guess I don't need to read the rest of your post to know where you're coming from.

Gaea · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 5579

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Check the facts. U.S. economic growth of the last four years EXCEEDS China's whole aggregate economic worth. Pffft. :roll:

Pffft. Why don't you show us the facts and provide a link then, because the last time I checked this was a debate forum.

Brooklyn · Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 1039 Location: New York City

Quote: The latest report on the Trade Deficit says that the US is exporting less goods than they are importing. That means that less goods are being produced or manufactured in the US.

First of all, the U.S. has been importing more than it exports for a long time now. This is nothing new. It certainly isn't a bad thing either.

Quote: The American consumer is partly to blame for this.

The American consumer is completely to blame. Though using the word "blame" isn't quite appropriate as it implies that consumers are doing something wrong by buying cheaper goods.

Quote: But our government bears most of the blame for not protecting the American worker and selling us out by letting our jobs go overseas and leaving jobs that used to be entry level jobs or summer jobs for teenagers.

Government isn't letting jobs go overseas. They are going overseas because more can be produced for less. The savings is passed on to consumers and producers here which promotes higher efficiency and ultimately leads to expansion and more jobs.

Quote: The jobs being created in this country today are service jobs. Service jobs. What that means is that more people in this country are or soon will be waiting on tables, cleaning other people's fingernails or working at Walmart. This is not the American dream folks. It is the American nightmare. WAKE UP.

You are forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. Owning your own small business IS the American dream. Besides, who exactly are you to tell me or anyone else that giving someone a manicure is not the American dream? Im sure some manicurists (if that is a word) would take offence to that.

milton friedman · Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 1209

Moot wrote: The latest report on the Trade Deficit says that the US is exporting less goods than they are importing. That means that less goods are being produced or manufactured in the US.

The American consumer is partly to blame for this. But our government bears most of the blame for not protecting the American worker and selling us out by letting our jobs go overseas and leaving jobs that used to be entry level jobs or summer jobs for teenagers.

The jobs being created in this country today are service jobs. Service jobs. What that means is that more people in this country are or soon will be waiting on tables, cleaning other people's fingernails or working at Walmart. This is not the American dream folks. It is the American nightmare. WAKE UP.

The article also mentions that the new Labor Department Report came out and unemployment is rising. And yet... and yet the Bush economists are painting it as a rosy picture.

Quote: Trade Deficit Unexpectedly Widens to a Record

By Joe Richter

Oct. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. trade deficit unexpectedly widened to a record $69.9 billion in August on a jump in imports that pushed the shortfall with China to an all-time high.

The deficit rose 2.7 percent from a $68 billion gap in July, the Commerce Department said in Washington, and exceeded the highest estimate in a Bloomberg News survey of economists. U.S. companies imported more computers, consumer goods and oil even as they shipped a record amount abroad.

The report was read as good news by some U.S. economists, who said it showed that consumer spending is holding up even as the economy slows. A weaker dollar and expansion in Europe and Asia are helping boost exports; at the same time a reduction in the deficit will be gradual because the economy is still growing faster than many of its counterparts.

``Strength in imports is typically associated with strong domestic demand,'' said Jim O'Sullivan, a senior economist at UBS Securities in Stamford, Connecticut. ``Both imports and exports are growing solidly lately, which very broadly is a sign of growth.''

The August deficit compares with the $66.7 billion median estimate in a Bloomberg News survey of 66 economists. The dollar weakened against the euro and yen after the report was released.

In a separate report, the Labor Department said today that first-time claims for jobless benefits rose last week from a two-month low. Claims increased by 4,000 to 308,000 in the week that ended Oct. 7, a level that economists said is still consistent with a resilient labor market.

China Tensions

The politically sensitive deficit with China widened to $22 billion, exceeding the previous record of $20.5 billion reached in October 2005. Today's report showed that imports from China increased to an all-time high of $26.7 billion in August. U.S. exports to the Asian nation fell to $4.8 billion......read
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSiUjXPsHE2g&refer=home

Doncha luv it. Instead of saying the labor market is hurting they are saying it is resilient. Resiliant. So resiliant that even a lowlife job at a McDonalds looks good.

The moral of this story is .... DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE BUSH ECONOMIST TELL YOU.

No new news here. We are importing a lot of goods, oh my.

BTW broklyne, TAKE OFF THAT NASTY AVATAR OF YOURS.. DOWN WITH THE TEXAS RANGERS!! GO SEATTLE!!!! :lol:

Brooklyn · Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 1039 Location: New York City

Quote: BTW broklyne, TAKE OFF THAT NASTY AVATAR OF YOURS.. DOWN WITH THE TEXAS RANGERS!! GO SEATTLE!!!!

C'mon its not like the Rangers are a threat to win anything...

Free Thinkr · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:00 am Post subject:

Oh noes!

Gaea · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 5579

Brooklyn wrote: Quote: The latest report on the Trade Deficit says that the US is exporting less goods than they are importing. That means that less goods are being produced or manufactured in the US.

First of all, the U.S. has been importing more than it exports for a long time now. This is nothing new. It certainly isn't a bad thing either.

Don't you believe in balanced trade? Some people think that if the trade deficit continues to widen at its current rate then a serious correction is going to happen and the economy will tank. Wouldn't that be a bad thing?

Quote: Quote: The American consumer is partly to blame for this.

The American consumer is completely to blame. Though using the word "blame" isn't quite appropriate as it implies that consumers are doing something wrong by buying cheaper goods.

American consumers are being sold a bill of goods. If the US buys cheap goods from China with cash and in return China buys US bonds and assets with that cash and the return on those bonds and assets is going to China....how does that benefit the American consumer for future spending? Won't his spending power and his standared of living eventually be diminished? If the US keeps borrowing so it can pay the interest on those foreign assets, I really don't see how that benefits consumers for the long haul. Especially if the countries the US borrows from decide to stop lending the US money because of the high debt already incurred and they are not making anything tangible to trade. That to me is nightmare scenario.

Quote: Quote: But our government bears most of the blame for not protecting the American worker and selling us out by letting our jobs go overseas and leaving jobs that used to be entry level jobs or summer jobs for teenagers.
Government isn't letting jobs go overseas. They are going overseas because more can be produced for less. The savings is passed on to consumers and producers here which promotes higher efficiency and ultimately leads to expansion and more jobs.

The government is letting jobs go overseas via the free trade agreement aka NAFTA.

Quote: Quote: The jobs being created in this country today are service jobs. Service jobs. What that means is that more people in this country are or soon will be waiting on tables, cleaning other people's fingernails or working at Walmart. This is not the American dream folks. It is the American nightmare. WAKE UP.

You are forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. Owning your own small business IS the American dream. Besides, who exactly are you to tell me or anyone else that giving someone a manicure is not the American dream? Im sure some manicurists (if that is a word) would take offence to that.
I'm not forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. But how many people in this country today can afford to own or have the expertise to own their own business? Are suggesting that the entire working class should own their own business? How about if they all own the one of the same 20 or so franchises? Would that work for you? :roll:

No, owning a home is the American dream. As far as me telling you anything, may I ask who are you to tell me or anyone else with half a brain that cleaning fingernails is the American dream? Speak for yourself pal, if you think anyone can afford to buy a home cleaning fingernails. Because unless you have ever been to a manicure parlor in a large metropolitan area, they are nothing short of a sweat shop.

TwinkieDP · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3706 Location: US

Moot wrote:
...
I'm not forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. But how many people in this country today can afford to own or have the expertise to own their own business? Are suggesting that the entire working class should own their own business? How about if they all own the one of the same 20 or so franchises? Would that work for you? :roll:

No, owning a home is the American dream. As far as me telling you anything, may I ask who are you to tell me or anyone else with half a brain that cleaning fingernails is the American dream? Speak for yourself pal, if you think anyone can afford to buy a home cleaning fingernails. Because unless you have ever been to a manicure parlor in a large metropolitan area, they are nothing short of a sweat shop. Personally, I'd much rather work at a Mcdonalds, or a Manicure shop instead of an American automobile, electronics factory...
The issue of course is the level of pay that you may receive. If Walmart or McDonalds pays a decent wage that really is not such a bad job...
Whereas an Agrifactory or manufacturing job may pay 20- 30 dollars / hour, you'd be lucky to get $10 - 15/hour at Walmart or Micky D's...

The most lucrative jobs are of course in the professional fields: Lawyers, Engineers, Computer Programming etc... Are these jobs being lost? I don't think so. Yes, as a result of MNC investments in China, the Chinese economy is becoming more independent of imports of other nations. But that is a good thing right? After all the American motto is freedom and democracy, free trade etc. etc....

Free Thinkr · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject:

Moot wrote: Brooklyn wrote: Quote: The latest report on the Trade Deficit says that the US is exporting less goods than they are importing. That means that less goods are being produced or manufactured in the US.

First of all, the U.S. has been importing more than it exports for a long time now. This is nothing new. It certainly isn't a bad thing either.

Don't you believe in balanced trade?
No. Why would anyone?

Quote: Some people think that if the trade deficit continues to widen at its current rate then a serious correction is going to happen and the economy will tank. Wouldn't that be a bad thing?
Some people think there's a magical, invisible fairy in the sky that gets angry when you have sex before marriage.

Quote: Quote: Quote: The American consumer is partly to blame for this.

The American consumer is completely to blame. Though using the word "blame" isn't quite appropriate as it implies that consumers are doing something wrong by buying cheaper goods.

American consumers are being sold a bill of goods. If the US buys cheap goods from China with cash and in return China buys US bonds and assets with that cash and the return on those bonds and assets is going to China....how does that benefit the American consumer for future spending?
"China" doesn't buy bonds and assets, Chinese people do. As for them buying bonds, so what? Someone has to buy those bonds, why not the Chinese? As for them buying assets, what do you have against investment in our country? They buy bonds and assets because that's all they really can do with US cash. They're being sold a bill of goods, if anything; they're like a giant nation of wetbacks doing all our dirty work.

Quote: Won't his spending power and his standared of living eventually be diminished? If the US keeps borrowing so it can pay the interest on those foreign assets, I really don't see how that benefits consumers for the long haul. Especially if the countries the US borrows from decide to stop lending the US money because of the high debt already incurred and they are not making anything tangible to trade. That to me is nightmare scenario.
Wont happen.

Quote: Quote: Quote: But our government bears most of the blame for not protecting the American worker and selling us out by letting our jobs go overseas and leaving jobs that used to be entry level jobs or summer jobs for teenagers.
Government isn't letting jobs go overseas. They are going overseas because more can be produced for less. The savings is passed on to consumers and producers here which promotes higher efficiency and ultimately leads to expansion and more jobs.

The government is letting jobs go overseas via the free trade agreement aka NAFTA.
As opposed to what, protectionism? Jesus, protectionism was debunked 200 years ago.

Quote: Quote: Quote: The jobs being created in this country today are service jobs. Service jobs. What that means is that more people in this country are or soon will be waiting on tables, cleaning other people's fingernails or working at Walmart. This is not the American dream folks. It is the American nightmare. WAKE UP.

You are forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. Owning your own small business IS the American dream. Besides, who exactly are you to tell me or anyone else that giving someone a manicure is not the American dream? Im sure some manicurists (if that is a word) would take offence to that.
I'm not forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. But how many people in this country today can afford to own or have the expertise to own their own business?
Millions do.

Quote: Are suggesting that the entire working class should own their own business? How about if they all own the one of the same 20 or so franchises? Would that work for you? :roll:
How about if on in 20 owns his own business, and the other 19 work for him?

Quote: No, owning a home is the American dream. As far as me telling you anything, may I ask who are you to tell me or anyone else with half a brain that cleaning fingernails is the American dream? Speak for yourself pal, if you think anyone can afford to buy a home cleaning fingernails. Because unless you have ever been to a manicure parlor in a large metropolitan area, they are nothing short of a sweat shop.
Been to many? :lol:

Brooklyn · Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 1039 Location: New York City

Quote: Don't you believe in balanced trade?

No. I believe in buying the best possible products for the lowest possible price. In other words, all I wish to do as an individual is maximize my own utility. Thats it.

Quote: If the US keeps borrowing so it can pay the interest on those foreign assets, I really don't see how that benefits consumers for the long haul. Especially if the countries the US borrows from decide to stop lending the US money because of the high debt already incurred and they are not making anything tangible to trade.

Aren't you forgetting about all of the other crap our government spends money on. If the government stops blowing up other nations we could stop borrowing too. Or if we ended all social programs we could stop borrowing. Or... the list goes on and on. If foreigners decide to keep those dollars locked away in vaults (which they wont because only a fool would just let money sit around depreciating in value), the Federal Reserve could simply increase bank reserves replace what doesn't flow back into the country. Or our government could just not spend as much.

Quote: The government is letting jobs go overseas via the free trade agreement aka NAFTA.

The government is simply promoting economic growth. Free trade makes it easier for growth to occur.

Quote: I'm not forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. But how many people in this country today can afford to own or have the expertise to own their own business? Are suggesting that the entire working class should own their own business? How about if they all own the one of the same 20 or so franchises? Would that work for you?

Your acting as if every single manufacturing job is going to leave this country. See "comparative advantage".

Quote: No, owning a home is the American dream.

Fair enough.

Quote: As far as me telling you anything, may I ask who are you to tell me or anyone else with half a brain that cleaning fingernails is the American dream? Speak for yourself pal, if you think anyone can afford to buy a home cleaning fingernails. Because unless you have ever been to a manicure parlor in a large metropolitan area, they are nothing short of a sweat shop.

First of all, Im not your pal. Second, I have been to the manicure parlors. Many of them are quite nice. Do you happen to know how most nail and hair parlors work. Let me give you a run down. The owner of the establishment rents out booths or chairs to stylists. The stylists pay rent to cut hair or do nails inside the parlor. The stylist keeps all proceeds and tips. Usually the owner only gets a percentage if the patron uses a credit or debit card. I know this because my wife was a manager at one of these places. We were friends with the owner who told us the ins and outs of the business. The stylists actually do quite well. One of the manicurists there was a single mother who recieved no alimony or child support. Guess what? She and her "half a brain" bought a nice little three bedroom house in suburban Dallas.

chris_mthomas · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 561 Location: Shenzhen

A trade deficit is a fundamentally good thing: the wealth of a country is measured in goods and services available to the consumers, not in little green pieces of paper. Adam Smith realized this back in 1776 - why do people still have a problem grasping this concept?

Don't think of it as a "account deficit". Think of it as a "goods surplus". We should feel lucky - China is sending us a plethora of undervalued consumer goods, and for what? Scraps of paper that they pay way too high of a price for. Stop the gloom and doom, no one's selling out anyone. It's called a global economy.

TwinkieDP · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3706 Location: US

Free Thinkr wrote: Quote: American consumers are being sold a bill of goods. If the US buys cheap goods from China with cash and in return China buys US bonds and assets with that cash and the return on those bonds and assets is going to China....how does that benefit the American consumer for future spending?
"China" doesn't buy bonds and assets, Chinese people do. As for them buying bonds, so what? Someone has to buy those bonds, why not the Chinese? As for them buying assets, what do you have against investment in our country? They buy bonds and assets because that's all they really can do with US cash. They're being sold a bill of goods, if anything; they're like a giant nation of wetbacks doing all our dirty work.
This comment coming from a White Cracker, needless to say is highly offensive...

Free Thinkr · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject:

TwinkieDP wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Quote: American consumers are being sold a bill of goods. If the US buys cheap goods from China with cash and in return China buys US bonds and assets with that cash and the return on those bonds and assets is going to China....how does that benefit the American consumer for future spending?
"China" doesn't buy bonds and assets, Chinese people do. As for them buying bonds, so what? Someone has to buy those bonds, why not the Chinese? As for them buying assets, what do you have against investment in our country? They buy bonds and assets because that's all they really can do with US cash. They're being sold a bill of goods, if anything; they're like a giant nation of wetbacks doing all our dirty work.
This comment coming from a White Cracker, needless to say is highly offensive...
I couldn't think of a better term. Saying "immigrant workers" or "mexicans" wouldn't really convey the meaning I was trying to get across.

RueTheDay · Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 2409

chris_mthomas wrote: A trade deficit is a fundamentally good thing: the wealth of a country is measured in goods and services available to the consumers, not in little green pieces of paper. Adam Smith realized this back in 1776 - why do people still have a problem grasping this concept?

Don't think of it as a "account deficit". Think of it as a "goods surplus". We should feel lucky - China is sending us a plethora of undervalued consumer goods, and for what? Scraps of paper that they pay way too high of a price for. Stop the gloom and doom, no one's selling out anyone. It's called a global economy.

That generally is the correct way of looking at it. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part it is true.

The other thing that many people do not understand is that we have a trade deficit largely because we have a budget deficit, not because of the trade policies of foreign countries.

Gaea · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 5579

Free Thinkr wrote: Moot wrote: Brooklyn wrote: Quote: The latest report on the Trade Deficit says that the US is exporting less goods than they are importing. That means that less goods are being produced or manufactured in the US.
First of all, the U.S. has been importing more than it exports for a long time now. This is nothing new. It certainly isn't a bad thing either.
Don't you believe in balanced trade?
No. Why would anyone? Why wouldn't they?

Quote: Quote: Some people think that if the trade deficit continues to widen at its current rate then a serious correction is going to happen and the economy will tank. Wouldn't that be a bad thing?
Some people think there's a magical, invisible fairy in the sky that gets angry when you have sex before marriage.
Cute... but in your case I think its just a personality problem.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: The American consumer is partly to blame for this.
The American consumer is completely to blame. Though using the word "blame" isn't quite appropriate as it implies that consumers are doing something wrong by buying cheaper goods.
American consumers are being sold a bill of goods. If the US buys cheap goods from China with cash and in return China buys US bonds and assets with that cash and the return on those bonds and assets is going to China....how does that benefit the American consumer for future spending?
"China" doesn't buy bonds and assets, Chinese people do. As for them buying bonds, so what? Someone has to buy those bonds, why not the Chinese? As for them buying assets, what do you have against investment in our country? They buy bonds and assets because that's all they really can do with US cash. They're being sold a bill of goods, if anything; they're like a giant nation of wetbacks doing all our dirty work.
China does buy US bonds and assets. The Chinese people are subsidized by the Chinese government.

You seem to be the typical type that whines about paying taxes, so how come it doesn't bother your ilk to have a large portion of your taxes paying billions in interest on assets that only foreign countries will ever see? Money that doesn't benefit you or America? I only assume your American because foreigners aren't usually so rude, crude and socially unacceptable.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Won't his spending power and his standared of living eventually be diminished? If the US keeps borrowing so it can pay the interest on those foreign assets, I really don't see how that benefits consumers for the long haul. Especially if the countries the US borrows from decide to stop lending the US money because of the high debt already incurred and they are not making anything tangible to trade. That to me is nightmare scenario.
Wont happen.
Says who? You? Pffft.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: But our government bears most of the blame for not protecting the American worker and selling us out by letting our jobs go overseas and leaving jobs that used to be entry level jobs or summer jobs for teenagers.
Government isn't letting jobs go overseas. They are going overseas because more can be produced for less. The savings is passed on to consumers and producers here which promotes higher efficiency and ultimately leads to expansion and more jobs.
The government is letting jobs go overseas via the free trade agreement aka NAFTA. As opposed to what, protectionism? Jesus, protectionism was debunked 200 years ago. No, as opposed to fair trade. So what does Jesus have to do with it?

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: The jobs being created in this country today are service jobs. Service jobs. What that means is that more people in this country are or soon will be waiting on tables, cleaning other people's fingernails or working at Walmart. This is not the American dream folks. It is the American nightmare. WAKE UP.
You are forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. Owning your own small business IS the American dream. Besides, who exactly are you to tell me or anyone else that giving someone a manicure is not the American dream? Im sure some manicurists (if that is a word) would take offence to that.
I'm not forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. But how many people in this country today can afford to own or have the expertise to own their own business?
Millions do. Wow, millions. :duh1:

Quote: Quote: Are you suggesting that the entire working class should own their own business? How about if they all own the one of the same 20 or so franchises? Would that work for you? :roll:
How about if on in 20 owns his own business, and the other 19 work for him? So are you agreeing that not everyone in the entire working class has the funds or expertise to own their own business?

Quote: Quote: No, owning a home is the American dream. As far as me telling you anything, may I ask who are you to tell me or anyone else with half a brain that cleaning fingernails is the American dream? Speak for yourself pal, if you think anyone can afford to buy a home cleaning fingernails. Because unless you have ever been to a manicure parlor in a large metropolitan area, they are nothing short of a sweat shop.
Been to many? :lol:
Yes, I have. Do you have a problem with that?

Gaea · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 5579

Brooklyn wrote: Quote: Don't you believe in balanced trade?
No. I believe in buying the best possible products for the lowest possible price. In other words, all I wish to do as an individual is maximize my own utility. Thats it.
But isn't that what we all want? I mean, it would be an extremely odd person who shops to find the worst product for the most expensive price. You or I as individuals don't make the trade laws, so our personal preferences are kind of irrelevant in the big picture. So thinking internationally, what's wrong with having a balanced trade deficit?

Quote: Quote: If the US keeps borrowing so it can pay the interest on those foreign assets, I really don't see how that benefits consumers for the long haul. Especially if the countries the US borrows from decide to stop lending the US money because of the high debt already incurred and they are not making anything tangible to trade.
Aren't you forgetting about all of the other crap our government spends money on. If the government stops blowing up other nations we could stop borrowing too. Or if we ended all social programs we could stop borrowing. Or... the list goes on and on. If foreigners decide to keep those dollars locked away in vaults (which they wont because only a fool would just let money sit around depreciating in value), the Federal Reserve could simply increase bank reserves replace what doesn't flow back into the country. Or our government could just not spend as much.

Cutting spending is the ultimate goal we would all like to see our government do.

No, I'm not forgetting the high cost of war and social programs. But we're talking about the trade deficit and would like to focus on that as much as possible.

The Chinese float the value of their yuan with the US dollar, so I don't think depreciation is an issue for them. So no matter how much money the US keeps printing out (which they are like there's no tomorrow) the Chinese won't lose the value of their exports to depreciation of the US dollar. This is tantamount to stealing our economic growth and market share. Our politicians are inept at dealing with the problem and yet the longer it goes on the worse its going to get. This probably adds greatly to the trade deficit.

Quote: Quote: The government is letting jobs go overseas via the free trade agreement aka NAFTA.
The government is simply promoting economic growth. Free trade makes it easier for growth to occur. Free trade is not creating growth like it was touted to do. Emerging nations (except for China) are getting hurt and our own country is suffering from lack of quality jobs, decent wages, depletion of natural resources and inflation is breathing down our neck. Plus, the government still subsidizes some industries and they are using oil reserves to try and keep the price of gasoline low. Eventually that is going to slow growth and hurt our quality of life. Personally, I think we are living in a bubble that can't be sustained for too much longer.

Quote: Quote: I'm not forgetting that most service jobs are small businesses. But how many people in this country today can afford to own or have the expertise to own their own business? Are suggesting that the entire working class should own their own business? How about if they all own the one of the same 20 or so franchises? Would that work for you? Your acting as if every single manufacturing job is going to leave this country. See "comparative advantage". Thanks, that was interesting. Not sure I fully understand it yet and it looks like a discussion unto itself. But from what I gather, comparative advantage requires perfect conditions for it to work and it doesn't seem to consider emerging markets that need some protections in order to fairly compete with industrialized nations. Or does it? Is there a thread already on this topic?

Quote: Quote: No, owning a home is the American dream.
Fair enough. Good, I'm glad we didn't have to waste time arguing about that.

Quote: Quote: As far as me telling you anything, may I ask who are you to tell me or anyone else with half a brain that cleaning fingernails is the American dream? Speak for yourself pal, if you think anyone can afford to buy a home cleaning fingernails. Because unless you have ever been to a manicure parlor in a large metropolitan area, they are nothing short of a sweat shop.
First of all, I'm not your pal. Sorry, I tend to treat people in kind. It was your "who do you think are" statement I felt needed a little rebutt. If you don't like it, then may I suggest you don't dish it out.

Quote: Second, I have been to the manicure parlors. Many of them are quite nice. Do you happen to know how most nail and hair parlors work. Let me give you a run down. The owner of the establishment rents out booths or chairs to stylists. The stylists pay rent to cut hair or do nails inside the parlor. The stylist keeps all proceeds and tips. Usually the owner only gets a percentage if the patron uses a credit or debit card. I know this because my wife was a manager at one of these places. We were friends with the owner who told us the ins and outs of the business. The stylists actually do quite well. One of the manicurists there was a single mother who recieved no alimony or child support. Guess what? She and her "half a brain" bought a nice little three bedroom house in suburban Dallas.

Well thats fine. I'm sure there are may ways to run a nail parlor all across America. But in Los Angeles the majority of them are sweatshops full of young Asian women who can't speak english. There are no booths, only chairs where the customer moves from one procedure to the next depending on the treatment they pay for. Its like an assembly line. The girls work from dawn to dusk, six days a week and the tips don't go to the girls directly, but to the owner who then doles them out to each girl at the end of the day, but only after taking the lions share. That is their wage, which can vary from day to day and there are no benefits. A simple nail treatment with polish costs only $8.00 to $12.00 plus tip. They can under price any salon with a manicurist in the area. The girls can quit if they want, but they would have a hard time finding other work because they lack education and can't speak english. Many of them are young mothers and I seriously doubt any of them can afford to buy a car, much less a home, especially in LA. That is what the American worker is competing with right here in America. Your friend is lucky she lives in Dallas. But soon she may find herself competing with the Asians if and when they start to moving into the area.