Political Crossfire Forums

[VBach37]

Over the past 15 years, we've all seen the effects in the Balkans of the poor decisions the Allies made when they drew new borders after carving up the Austrio-Hungarian Empire after the First World War. Recently it occurred to me that our problems in the middle east can also be traced (at leasty partially) to this same period. Up through WWI, the part of the world now called the Middle East was almost exclusively under the control of the Ottoman Empire, a secular government.
What remains of the Ottoman Empire, the modern state of Turkey, is the only mostly-Muslim country which practices a truly succesful policy of seperation of church and state, and freedom of religion. If the European powers had left the Ottoman Empire intact, all those muslim extremists would be their headache rather than our own. They also might have been a useful ally during the Cold War, as Turkey was after all the only other non-European member of NATO besides the US and Canada.

The fundamental problem we face with the Middle East is that Muslims have long held that only Muslims should police Muslims, and that it is a horrible injustice for Infidels (that's us, by the way) to presume to play World Police. The problem is, not enough modern Muslims seem to have either the will or the backbone to handle the extremists who like blowing people up. If the Ottoman Empire had remained intact after WWI, I believe it is quite possible that many of the problems we now face in the Middle East would have been handled internaly without the West having to get involved.

[Wizard From Oz]

I think ya pretty much nailed it. If you look further a field you will see the same problems in Africa and the sub-continent.

The only part I disagree - It wasn't poor choices. It was intention. It is an outward example of the divide, and let them conquer themselves theory

[Melcar]

The only problem is that the Ottoman Empire was incredibly weak. I don't see it surviving after WWI even if the allies had left it in one piece. It would have eventually caved under the pressure of Arab nationalism and the USSR.

[melchizedek22]

Another long term effect is heart burn from Red Baron pizza!

[marapets]

'If the European powers had left the Ottoman Empire intact, all those muslim extremists would be their headache rather than our own'

The ottaman empire was a crumbling relic well before ww1 It had been propped up by western powers for the previous century. If the european powers hadnt broken it up then it would fallen have fallen apart anyway!

[Esin]

Yes but we may not have had the same problems with synthetic boarders we now have, since the countries would have been able to use their own judgements in creating their countries.

[philm]

We would have the same problem with synthetic borders. The middle east has NEVER been stable.
To paraphrase Monty Python, the middle-east has been "up and down like the Assyrian Empire".
Both the geographical layout, and climate conduisive to agriculture has reulted in repeated invasions and occupations. Even the much vaunted Isreali Kingdom was a relatively short lived affair.
Boundaries are temporary, only the populations are permanent.
In the middle-east tribal affiliations are incredibly significant so any post-Imperialist nation states would have been largely ineffectual, no matter the progenitor.
The Middle-East is a powderkeg, the fuse of which has always been lit.
The prescence of oil only adds fuel to the potential explosion.

...The plains of Meggido....