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inmylineofsight
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 64
Location: wilmington
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: Bible the law of man? |
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Is this a possibility that even though god used man as a medium to wright the bible.The act of man physically wrighting the bible makes it a law of man even if its divinely inspired.
P.S. Im trying to keep my personal bias away from this subject. and not letting opinion or belief overcome facts//.. |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Bible the law of man? |
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inmylineofsight wrote: Is this a possibility that even though god used man as a medium to wright the bible.The act of man physically wrighting the bible makes it a law of man even if its divinely inspired.
P.S. Im trying to keep my personal bias away from this subject. and not letting opinion or belief overcome facts//..
We must accept the possibility that the bible would have errors or a mis-represented idea, being written by an imperfect being. To think other wise would seem to indicate the ability for am inperfect person to grasp the knowledge of a perfect being. Anyway....
Can you expound on your idea about how or why you think the bible would be the law of man? |
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LetsGetReal
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5787
Location: Peoria, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| The bible has no errors and couldn't or do you beleive God's power has limits? |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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LetsGetReal wrote: The bible has no errors and couldn't or do you beleive God's power has limits?
If this was addressed to me:
It isn't a power limit that God does or doesn't have that I see as the issue. The issue is the limits of a flawed person. To say that a person can comprehend what God wants to say or make know, would mean that the flawed person's mind would some how be equal to God.
But then again, God can do what he wants. :think:
Seems contradictory and circular....as does many things "God"
Assuming God is omni-'everything', I suppose that's what we get for trying to figure him out :)
Perhaps the bible being 'erroneous' isn't the right term - flawed would be better....
If this wasn't addressed to me:
Never mind what I said :) |
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melchizedek22
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 370
Location: Holy Toledo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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its people missusing the Bible to push their own agenda thats the problem
example,"You are the salt of the earth"
Salt is white,God is Pro White man!
Sounds rediculous,but I could sell that to White racist everyday of the week! |
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LetsGetReal
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5787
Location: Peoria, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: The bible has no errors and couldn't or do you beleive God's power has limits?
If this was addressed to me:
It isn't a power limit that God does or doesn't have that I see as the issue. The issue is the limits of a flawed person. To say that a person can comprehend what God wants to say or make know, would mean that the flawed person's mind would some how be equal to God.
But then again, God can do what he wants. :think:
Seems contradictory and circular....as does many things "God"
Assuming God is omni-'everything', I suppose that's what we get for trying to figure him out :)
Perhaps the bible being 'erroneous' isn't the right term - flawed would be better....
If this wasn't addressed to me:
Never mind what I said :) I believe that he would pick people who wouldn't make these so-called "flaws" again your not only lowering Gods power, but his all-knowing side as well. You act like him choosing certain people and making certain situations occur is not his will. He did what he did because he planned it that way...
"God doen'st play dice", Albert Einstein |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: The bible has no errors and couldn't or do you beleive God's power has limits?
If this was addressed to me:
It isn't a power limit that God does or doesn't have that I see as the issue. The issue is the limits of a flawed person. To say that a person can comprehend what God wants to say or make know, would mean that the flawed person's mind would some how be equal to God.
But then again, God can do what he wants. :think:
Seems contradictory and circular....as does many things "God"
Assuming God is omni-'everything', I suppose that's what we get for trying to figure him out :)
Perhaps the bible being 'erroneous' isn't the right term - flawed would be better....
If this wasn't addressed to me:
Never mind what I said :) I believe that he would pick people who wouldn't make these so-called "flaws" again your not only lowering Gods power, but his all-knowing side as well. You act like him choosing certain people and making certain situations occur is not his will. He did what he did because he planned it that way...
"God doen'st play dice", Albert Einstein
Quote: ...making certain situations occur is not his will. Curious: How does this equate with the idea of 'free will'?
"The glass if half empty, the glass is half full." - different perspectives. I am not saying it is limiting anything of God. It is placing the human mind equal, even for a moment, with God's. So I can see it not as lowering God's standards, but elevating human standards. As I said, circular and contradictory reasoning when trying to humanize God. |
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LetsGetReal
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5787
Location: Peoria, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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How is anything I said humanizing God or are you refering to yourself because you whole post was quite incoherent and illogical if I do say so myself? Different perspective we're talking about the Christian perspective nothing else, do you not understand that? That is why he put this in the Christian sub-forum not the Muslim or the Jewish.
If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road? |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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LetsGetReal wrote: How is anything I said humanizing God or are you refering to yourself because you whole post was quite incoherent and illogical if I do say so myself? Different perspective we're talking about the Christian perspective nothing else, do you not understand that? That is why he put this in the Christian sub-forum not the Muslim or the Jewish.
If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road?
Relax friend. You are free to judge, believe what is or isn't coherent or what is or isn't logical (I would argue that most nothing is logical within christianity, but that is a separate debate). Seems to me that thinking a flawed being can speak for a perfect being is either elevating the flawed being to (perhaps) supernatural standards, or lowering the supreme being to a lesser standard. Personally, I think more of God than that.
Christianity has different perspectives, which is evident by the many different branches of christianity and different beliefs of each individual, regardless of rather you (or anyone else) want to believe it or not.
Quote: If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road? I suppose that depends if you want me to follow you or not :wink:
I am not trying to change your point of view, only offering mine. Accept it or not - makes no difference to me. |
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MG1962
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 9516
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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The problem is, when the Bible was first being written down, we simply didn't have the language to communicate it or understand the full extent of God's message.
I really believed he dumbed his message down. Example a child asks about where babys come from. Do we explain it in terms a first year med student would understand, or in the language of the young child |
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LetsGetReal
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5787
Location: Peoria, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: How is anything I said humanizing God or are you refering to yourself because you whole post was quite incoherent and illogical if I do say so myself? Different perspective we're talking about the Christian perspective nothing else, do you not understand that? That is why he put this in the Christian sub-forum not the Muslim or the Jewish.
If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road?
Relax friend. You are free to judge, believe what is or isn't coherent or what is or isn't logical (I would argue that most nothing is logical within christianity, but that is a separate debate). Seems to me that thinking a flawed being can speak for a perfect being is either elevating the flawed being to (perhaps) supernatural standards, or lowering the supreme being to a lesser standard. Personally, I think more of God than that.
Christianity has different perspectives, which is evident by the many different branches of christianity and different beliefs of each individual, regardless of rather you (or anyone else) want to believe it or not.
Quote: If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road? I suppose that depends if you want me to follow you or not :wink:
I am not trying to change your point of view, only offering mine. Accept it or not - makes no difference to me. Never said it would make a difference to you, I'm just telling you your wrong. If you knew a little more about christianity God created the bible for us not for himself. We don't think that we are at the same level as God nor do we/I imply/implied that. "We don't think as he(God)
thinks", that is a paraphrased verse in the Bible.... |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: How is anything I said humanizing God or are you refering to yourself because you whole post was quite incoherent and illogical if I do say so myself? Different perspective we're talking about the Christian perspective nothing else, do you not understand that? That is why he put this in the Christian sub-forum not the Muslim or the Jewish.
If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road?
Relax friend. You are free to judge, believe what is or isn't coherent or what is or isn't logical (I would argue that most nothing is logical within christianity, but that is a separate debate). Seems to me that thinking a flawed being can speak for a perfect being is either elevating the flawed being to (perhaps) supernatural standards, or lowering the supreme being to a lesser standard. Personally, I think more of God than that.
Christianity has different perspectives, which is evident by the many different branches of christianity and different beliefs of each individual, regardless of rather you (or anyone else) want to believe it or not.
Quote: If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road? I suppose that depends if you want me to follow you or not :wink:
I am not trying to change your point of view, only offering mine. Accept it or not - makes no difference to me. Never said it would make a difference to you, I'm just telling you your wrong. If you knew a little more about christianity God created the bible for us not for himself. We don't think that we are at the same level as God nor do we/I imply/implied that. "We don't think as he(God)
thinks", that is a paraphrased verse in the Bible....
Yet again, you missed the point :roll:
You like hearing yourself talk I think....:think:
Sometimes I wonder about you, friend... :lol:
When you are ready to have a discussion about this, let me know. Until then, back to the subject of the original post. |
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nygreenguy
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 46
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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LetsGetReal wrote: The bible has no errors and couldn't or do you beleive God's power has limits?
Are you serious? |
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LetsGetReal
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5787
Location: Peoria, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: How is anything I said humanizing God or are you refering to yourself because you whole post was quite incoherent and illogical if I do say so myself? Different perspective we're talking about the Christian perspective nothing else, do you not understand that? That is why he put this in the Christian sub-forum not the Muslim or the Jewish.
If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road?
Relax friend. You are free to judge, believe what is or isn't coherent or what is or isn't logical (I would argue that most nothing is logical within christianity, but that is a separate debate). Seems to me that thinking a flawed being can speak for a perfect being is either elevating the flawed being to (perhaps) supernatural standards, or lowering the supreme being to a lesser standard. Personally, I think more of God than that.
Christianity has different perspectives, which is evident by the many different branches of christianity and different beliefs of each individual, regardless of rather you (or anyone else) want to believe it or not.
Quote: If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road? I suppose that depends if you want me to follow you or not :wink:
I am not trying to change your point of view, only offering mine. Accept it or not - makes no difference to me. Never said it would make a difference to you, I'm just telling you your wrong. If you knew a little more about christianity God created the bible for us not for himself. We don't think that we are at the same level as God nor do we/I imply/implied that. "We don't think as he(God)
thinks", that is a paraphrased verse in the Bible....
Yet again, you missed the point :roll:
You like hearing yourself talk I think....:think:
Sometimes I wonder about you, friend... :lol:
When you are ready to have a discussion about this, let me know. Until then, back to the subject of the original post. Your point was dumb and wasn't worth mentioning and don't worry you didn't even respond to my post. But, you chastise me for ignoring your comment that lacked knowledge or scriptural back up. And since it should have scriptural evidence, because we are talking about from a Christian perspective you have yet to say anything important or worth debate. So if you would like to talk about what the original poster intended start looking at it as if you were a christian not from your own POV, because he never asked for that. :roll:... |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: How is anything I said humanizing God or are you refering to yourself because you whole post was quite incoherent and illogical if I do say so myself? Different perspective we're talking about the Christian perspective nothing else, do you not understand that? That is why he put this in the Christian sub-forum not the Muslim or the Jewish.
If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road?
Relax friend. You are free to judge, believe what is or isn't coherent or what is or isn't logical (I would argue that most nothing is logical within christianity, but that is a separate debate). Seems to me that thinking a flawed being can speak for a perfect being is either elevating the flawed being to (perhaps) supernatural standards, or lowering the supreme being to a lesser standard. Personally, I think more of God than that.
Christianity has different perspectives, which is evident by the many different branches of christianity and different beliefs of each individual, regardless of rather you (or anyone else) want to believe it or not.
Quote: If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road? I suppose that depends if you want me to follow you or not :wink:
I am not trying to change your point of view, only offering mine. Accept it or not - makes no difference to me. Never said it would make a difference to you, I'm just telling you your wrong. If you knew a little more about christianity God created the bible for us not for himself. We don't think that we are at the same level as God nor do we/I imply/implied that. "We don't think as he(God)
thinks", that is a paraphrased verse in the Bible....
Yet again, you missed the point :roll:
You like hearing yourself talk I think....:think:
Sometimes I wonder about you, friend... :lol:
When you are ready to have a discussion about this, let me know. Until then, back to the subject of the original post. Your point was dumb and wasn't worth mentioning and don't worry you didn't even respond to my post. But, you chastise me for ignoring your comment that lacked knowledge or scriptural back up. And since it should have scriptural evidence, because we are talking about from a Christian perspective you have yet to say anything important or worth debate. So if you would like to talk about what the original poster intended starting looking at it as if you were a christian not from your own POV, because he never asked for that. :roll:...
Did you actually call my point of view 'dumb'? :lol: How old are you? That's a very 'tell tell' sign of who you are and your insecurities. Do you actually think people can take your point of view seriously when you speak like this? Not to mention the fact that you obviously don't know me, therefore can't comment honestly that my opinion isn't christian based.
You only like to name call instead of discussing or accepting that there are other opinions than yours. |
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nygreenguy
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 46
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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nygreenguy wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: The bible has no errors and couldn't or do you beleive God's power has limits?
Are you serious?
Yeah, but really, do you believe this? |
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LetsGetReal
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5787
Location: Peoria, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: |
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toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: How is anything I said humanizing God or are you refering to yourself because you whole post was quite incoherent and illogical if I do say so myself? Different perspective we're talking about the Christian perspective nothing else, do you not understand that? That is why he put this in the Christian sub-forum not the Muslim or the Jewish.
If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road?
Relax friend. You are free to judge, believe what is or isn't coherent or what is or isn't logical (I would argue that most nothing is logical within christianity, but that is a separate debate). Seems to me that thinking a flawed being can speak for a perfect being is either elevating the flawed being to (perhaps) supernatural standards, or lowering the supreme being to a lesser standard. Personally, I think more of God than that.
Christianity has different perspectives, which is evident by the many different branches of christianity and different beliefs of each individual, regardless of rather you (or anyone else) want to believe it or not.
Quote: If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road? I suppose that depends if you want me to follow you or not :wink:
I am not trying to change your point of view, only offering mine. Accept it or not - makes no difference to me. Never said it would make a difference to you, I'm just telling you your wrong. If you knew a little more about christianity God created the bible for us not for himself. We don't think that we are at the same level as God nor do we/I imply/implied that. "We don't think as he(God)
thinks", that is a paraphrased verse in the Bible....
Yet again, you missed the point :roll:
You like hearing yourself talk I think....:think:
Sometimes I wonder about you, friend... :lol:
When you are ready to have a discussion about this, let me know. Until then, back to the subject of the original post. Your point was dumb and wasn't worth mentioning and don't worry you didn't even respond to my post. But, you chastise me for ignoring your comment that lacked knowledge or scriptural back up. And since it should have scriptural evidence, because we are talking about from a Christian perspective you have yet to say anything important or worth debate. So if you would like to talk about what the original poster intended starting looking at it as if you were a christian not from your own POV, because he never asked for that. :roll:...
Did you actually call my point of view 'dumb'? :lol: How old are you? That's a very 'tell tell' sign of who you are and your insecurities. Do you actually think people can take your point of view seriously when you speak like this? Not to mention the fact that you obviously don't know me, therefore can't comment honestly that my opinion isn't christian based.
You only like to name call instead of discussing or accepting that there are other opinions than yours. I couldn't think of another word to use :roll: and I do know you from your posts and you've said in more then one way that your not really a christian but have respect for the beliefs, but not the people.
Also another tell-tell sign is that when someone avoids a certain part of another posters comment(especially when you are responding to it) that they know very little about the subject and would rather stay away. :wink:
If you think that God would allow his word to be tainted or flawed. How about we take a look at what the scripture says:
2 Samuel 22:31
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.
1 Kings 17:24
Then the woman said to Elijah, "Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the LORD from your mouth is the truth."
Does that help my case or are you going to cast it out because it maybe tainted with mans own ambitions...:roll: |
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toddytodd
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2736
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: |
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LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: toddytodd wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: How is anything I said humanizing God or are you refering to yourself because you whole post was quite incoherent and illogical if I do say so myself? Different perspective we're talking about the Christian perspective nothing else, do you not understand that? That is why he put this in the Christian sub-forum not the Muslim or the Jewish.
If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road?
Relax friend. You are free to judge, believe what is or isn't coherent or what is or isn't logical (I would argue that most nothing is logical within christianity, but that is a separate debate). Seems to me that thinking a flawed being can speak for a perfect being is either elevating the flawed being to (perhaps) supernatural standards, or lowering the supreme being to a lesser standard. Personally, I think more of God than that.
Christianity has different perspectives, which is evident by the many different branches of christianity and different beliefs of each individual, regardless of rather you (or anyone else) want to believe it or not.
Quote: If I make a turn in the road and you take the turn, did I make you turn or did you choose to folllow the road? I suppose that depends if you want me to follow you or not :wink:
I am not trying to change your point of view, only offering mine. Accept it or not - makes no difference to me. Never said it would make a difference to you, I'm just telling you your wrong. If you knew a little more about christianity God created the bible for us not for himself. We don't think that we are at the same level as God nor do we/I imply/implied that. "We don't think as he(God)
thinks", that is a paraphrased verse in the Bible....
Yet again, you missed the point :roll:
You like hearing yourself talk I think....:think:
Sometimes I wonder about you, friend... :lol:
When you are ready to have a discussion about this, let me know. Until then, back to the subject of the original post. Your point was dumb and wasn't worth mentioning and don't worry you didn't even respond to my post. But, you chastise me for ignoring your comment that lacked knowledge or scriptural back up. And since it should have scriptural evidence, because we are talking about from a Christian perspective you have yet to say anything important or worth debate. So if you would like to talk about what the original poster intended starting looking at it as if you were a christian not from your own POV, because he never asked for that. :roll:...
Did you actually call my point of view 'dumb'? :lol: How old are you? That's a very 'tell tell' sign of who you are and your insecurities. Do you actually think people can take your point of view seriously when you speak like this? Not to mention the fact that you obviously don't know me, therefore can't comment honestly that my opinion isn't christian based.
You only like to name call instead of discussing or accepting that there are other opinions than yours. I couldn't think of another word to use :roll: and I do know you from your posts and you've said in more then one way that your not really a christian but have respect for the beliefs, but not the people.
Also another tell-tell sign is that when someone avoids a certain part of another posters comment(especially when you are responding to it) that they know very little about the subject and would rather stay away. :wink:
If you think that God would allow his word to be tainted or flawed. How about we take a look at what the scripture says:
2 Samuel 22:31
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.
1 Kings 17:24
Then the woman said to Elijah, "Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the LORD from your mouth is the truth."
Does that help my case or are you going to cast it out because it maybe tainted with mans own ambitions...:roll:
We all get it: You are rude and condescending to others who don't share your opinion. We don't agree, so you are rude. That is a very spiritually, mentally and socially mature approach. I am sure Jesus is happy with how you have represented Him. :clap: :roll: Does it make you feel good to argue your pointless ideas with others?
I would be happy to discuss anything with you anywhere. I won't respond to childish name calling from you any longer. Make a point, let's discuss it, or continue on your 'quest' elsewhere |
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nygreenguy
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 46
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: |
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LetsGetReal wrote: The bible has no errors and couldn't or do you beleive God's power has limits?
LETSGETREAL , do you believe the bible is inerrant, or not. I have asked you several times, yet you avoid my question. Please respond as I am very curious! |
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LetsGetReal
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 5787
Location: Peoria, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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nygreenguy wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: The bible has no errors and couldn't or do you beleive God's power has limits?
LETSGETREAL , do you believe the bible is inerrant, or not. I have asked you several times, yet you avoid my question. Please respond as I am very curious! I'm sorry your question left the supposition that you believed it was serious and shouldn't be.
What is so hard to get about this toddytodd or NYgreen:
2 Samuel 22:31
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him."
Toddytodd are you mad because I backed up a Christian perspective with the Bible, and I know how could I dare do that..:roll:
Condescending would mean I believe I'm superior and I don't. I just believe you don't know what your talking about and now your going to try the play the role of the victim. |
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