Political Crossfire Forums

[bigstick61]

A republic is not tyranny of the elite. It is ruled by neither the elite nor is it ruled by the majority of the people. It is a proper balance, in which the law rules, rather than any specific group.

[private_citizen]

Let me explain my vote of NO!

The reason we are a REPUBLIC, is to keep the "Ignorant masses" from deciding policy for the country.

The founding fathers actually used that verbiage for a reason....

[Mikate8]

I like guns alot but sadly my family doesnt own any, which is bulls*** because I want lots and lots of them, my grandparents uesd to have a few shooters but got rid of them after my brother and I were born, quick, someone build a time machine and tell them to just stick them in the attic and wait till i'm older. I have to hurry and get a job too before my 18th birthday in november so I can maybe buy a remington or mossberg, but I guess i'd go with a rifle, like a Remington 700 or Ruger Mini-14 or 30, depending on if .223 is cheaper than 7.62x39 ammunition because I could take friends to a gun range, not alot to do here in Florida, we usually play wal-mart tag and playing with guns sounds sooooooo much more fun, with the proper safety training of course. Too bad 18 year olds aren't allowed to buy handguns since I would definitely love to have an Auto Ordnance M1911A1 or an Uberti Cattleman .45 because the Colt ones are like over a grand.

So right now I wouldnt be able to disrespect an attack on the 2nd, but I hope to soon.

[bigstick61]

Get a Kel-Tec Su-16. Surplus and Wolf .223 ammo is usually pretty cheap, and if you ever choose to buy it, plenty of quality ammo is available; if I'm going to spend more money, I tend to be partial to Black Hills ammo.

[private_citizen]

Mikate8 wrote: I like guns alot but sadly my family doesnt own any, which is bulls*** because I want lots and lots of them, my grandparents uesd to have a few shooters but got rid of them after my brother and I were born, quick, someone build a time machine and tell them to just stick them in the attic and wait till i'm older. I have to hurry and get a job too before my 18th birthday in november so I can maybe buy a remington or mossberg, but I guess i'd go with a rifle, like a Remington 700 or Ruger Mini-14 or 30, depending on if .223 is cheaper than 7.62x39 ammunition because I could take friends to a gun range, not alot to do here in Florida, we usually play wal-mart tag and playing with guns sounds sooooooo much more fun, with the proper safety training of course. Too bad 18 year olds aren't allowed to buy handguns since I would definitely love to have an Auto Ordnance M1911A1 or an Uberti Cattleman .45 because the Colt ones are like over a grand.

So right now I wouldnt be able to disrespect an attack on the 2nd, but I hope to soon.

Have you considered Ruger?

They are VERY reliable, and less expensive than Sig and Colt.

[Mikate8]

Yea i've seen those Ruger Vaqueros and other single actions but still *sigh* they don't let 18 yr olds buy handguns, thats just unfair, I should go to whoever put that in action and tell them theyre uncool and hopefully ostracize them from the "in" crowd of other politicians.
What is the reason for not letting 18yr olds buy handguns? Baby Boomers scared we'll take them out before they collect on social security?

Whoa, I saw what a Kel-tec SU-16 D with a 9" barrel and folding stock looks like, pretty cool

[private_citizen]

Mikate8 wrote: Yea i've seen those Ruger Vaqueros and other single actions but still *sigh* they don't let 18 yr olds buy handguns, thats just unfair, I should go to whoever put that in action and tell them theyre uncool and hopefully ostracize them from the "in" crowd of other politicians.
What is the reason for not letting 18yr olds buy handguns? Baby Boomers scared we'll take them out before they collect on social security?

Whoa, I saw what a Kel-tec SU-16 D with a 9" barrel and folding stock looks like, pretty cool

what state?

[Mikate8]

Florida, you need that concealed carry permit and you need to be 21 to get it

[bigstick61]

Su-16D is an NFA weapon, so you need to be 21 and go through a Class 3 dealer to get it. However, my favorite versions are the SU-16C and SU-16CA.

[Mikate8]

I know I saw it on the website, anything that "looks evil" is something where you need another license or can't get
Just cause its got a short barrel, its not like your average crackhead or criminal is going to run into a convenience store with a .223 caliber rifle

[perdidochas]

Mikate8 wrote: I like guns alot but sadly my family doesnt own any, which is bulls*** because I want lots and lots of them, my grandparents uesd to have a few shooters but got rid of them after my brother and I were born, quick, someone build a time machine and tell them to just stick them in the attic and wait till i'm older. I have to hurry and get a job too before my 18th birthday in november so I can maybe buy a remington or mossberg, but I guess i'd go with a rifle, like a Remington 700 or Ruger Mini-14 or 30, depending on if .223 is cheaper than 7.62x39 ammunition because I could take friends to a gun range, not alot to do here in Florida, we usually play wal-mart tag and playing with guns sounds sooooooo much more fun, with the proper safety training of course. Too bad 18 year olds aren't allowed to buy handguns since I would definitely love to have an Auto Ordnance M1911A1 or an Uberti Cattleman .45 because the Colt ones are like over a grand.

So right now I wouldnt be able to disrespect an attack on the 2nd, but I hope to soon.

Please grow up, stop playing "walmart tag" as walmart is hectic enough without juvenile delinquents. If you're still playing tag, give up on owning guns for a while. You have some growing up to do before you should own a gun.

[Mikate8]

I'm not playing tag right now, so by that logic I shall save up some money and buy lots of guns, good thing your advice will not hinder me in buying lots of guns. Its just like how anti-gun people do not stop others from stockpiling on tons of weapons. Haha, I love how opinion can be stomped on as if it we're a small bug who is communist and tries to take away your guns. Squish

[perdidochas]

Mikate8 wrote: I'm not playing tag right now, so by that logic I shall save up some money and buy lots of guns, good thing your advice will not hinder me in buying lots of guns. Its just like how anti-gun people do not stop others from stockpiling on tons of weapons. Haha, I love how opinion can be stomped on as if it we're a small bug who is communist and tries to take away your guns. Squish

I am far from anti-gun. I just don't want irresponsible people owning guns. You sound irresponsible in your posts. Get responsible, then buy guns.

[mathurin]

britboy wrote: If a completely fair referendum was held in your country deciding whether or not to allow handguns in private hands -- a competely democratic - free vote ..

If the decision went AGAINST your personal view, would you respect the decision and abide by any new rules imposed thereafter, or think 'Who cares what my fellow countrymen have voted for -- I'm gonna fight against this one ..' and break the new law?

?

(US -- er .. the politicians are all united in saying the constitution will be altered if necessary on the basis of this referendum)

im begining to think you really dont understand

the BoR is not just another piece of paper, nor another law, even thought it could techinically be changed, any such change would be invalid, the rights described are not granted by the BoR, only recognized, and the BoR expressly states this within itself


for example, if the populationo of our nation did a national vote (btw, we have no such system set up, additional law would have to be made) and outlawed free speech and the right to peacefully protest, would you feel obligated to abide by the new rules
you may see it differently, but our bill of rights placed the right to bear arms between it and the right to privacy for a reason, it is considered a fundamental right

we do not have a democracy, and neither do you, wasnt it plato that described it as a bad idea, "mob rule"
it is why we have absolute rights RECOGNIZED in the document creating our gov recognized, not given



btw, the reason nobody is voting is how very biased your poll is, for example
if a national referendum decided that males are overly aggressive, creating crimes and stuff all over the place. so, by a national vote, all males present and future, will surrender their genitals, a few breeding specimens will be left their testicals only.
would you abide by it?
or do you not like democracy? you evil scoundrel, would you thumb your nose at majority rule??

you may find this totally disimilar, i do not, you feel that you have a right to your own body, and any natural or unatural thing done to it, i agree, and i feel that i have a right to arms
do i really need to point out that my right to arms is in americas governing document, which says nothing about your right to your body?
that might fall under privacy

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm
Males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder in 2004.


gun owners are far less than 10 times likely to kill than non-gun owners, yet i dont see you attacking testosterone
after all, a gun is just a device, capable of doing what its posessor directs it to, but testosterone is a hormone, a violence inducing drug in a way

if atacking liberty to reduce crime continues you might find nothing between your legs soon enough
but i am sure you will laugh this off, i dont know why i waste my breathe

[britboy]

Quote:
but i am sure you will laugh this off, i dont know why i waste my breathe


:lol: nor me.

[evil muppet]

If the government even gets to this stage where they would be voting away constitutional rights in referendums, would people even continue to see the government as being legitimate?

[lilwolf]

evil muppet wrote: If the government even gets to this stage where they would be voting away constitutional rights in referendums, would people even continue to see the government as being legitimate?


No they would not and then the problems would begin....They would lose in the long run. And rightfully so.

[Mikate8]

perdidochas wrote: Mikate8 wrote: I'm not playing tag right now, so by that logic I shall save up some money and buy lots of guns, good thing your advice will not hinder me in buying lots of guns. Its just like how anti-gun people do not stop others from stockpiling on tons of weapons. Haha, I love how opinion can be stomped on as if it we're a small bug who is communist and tries to take away your guns. Squish

I am far from anti-gun. I just don't want irresponsible people owning guns. You sound irresponsible in your posts. Get responsible, then buy guns.

Cheney and his hunting buddy didn't sound very responsible now did they? And if you say they were then did you look at his face!!! OMG it was like a zombies face it was all yellow and full of holes!!!
So yes, I want lots of guns, just like lilwolf and the other gun owners in this forum

[mathurin]

britboy wrote: Quote:
but i am sure you will laugh this off, i dont know why i waste my breathe


:lol: nor me.

in the hopes of curing the world of its ignorance
sadly there is no panacea for those who refuse to be cured, only euthanasia
i fear this issue will end in a civil war for america, and many innocent underlings will be sent to their death by their self appointed saviors

granted, that will be better than those who have given up their arms and end up in virtual slavery that they cannot shrug off

[ikari]

I don't think that the standards Britboy would apply in this case, he would accept in other cases. As I said before, what if for some reason the majority wished to reinstall slavery? If it were done in a free vote and completly democratic, would we accept the outcome? Would we condone this behavior and accept it as the wish of the majority? What if the majority wished to take someone's land? If there was a vote, and the majority demanded we take Joe's land, would we accept this outcome? Is it proper to always go with the whim of the majority?

To any rational person, the answer is no. It doesn't matter how many people wanted to bring back slavery, it can't be done. The rights of the individual trump the will of the majority.-