Political Crossfire Forums

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3335 Location: London

If a completely fair referendum was held in your country deciding whether or not to allow handguns in private hands -- a competely democratic - free vote ..

If the decision went AGAINST your personal view, would you respect the decision and abide by any new rules imposed thereafter, or think 'Who cares what my fellow countrymen have voted for -- I'm gonna fight against this one ..' and break the new law?

?

(US -- er .. the politicians are all united in saying the constitution will be altered if necessary on the basis of this referendum)

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 12549 Location: idaho

No I personally would not support it because it would more than likely be totally against the bill of rights and constitutional law.

As an american I would have to say absolutely ...Hell No. :td:

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3335 Location: London

lilwolf wrote: No I personally would not support it because it would more than likely be totally against the bill of rights and constitutional law.

As an american I would have to say absolutely ...Hell No. :td:
Remember I said

Quote:
US -- er .. the politicians are all united in saying the constitution will be altered if necessary on the basis of this referendum)

Wouldn't you respect true democracy in action?

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 12549 Location: idaho

britboy wrote: lilwolf wrote: No I personally would not support it because it would more than likely be totally against the bill of rights and constitutional law.

As an american I would have to say absolutely ...Hell No. :td:
Remember I said

Quote:
US -- er .. the politicians are all united in saying the constitution will be altered if necessary on the basis of this referendum)

Wouldn't you respect true democracy in action?

Nope... the type of thing you are talking about here is and would be an afront to the constitution and totally inacceptable to millions of americans. It would lead to a disarming of americans and then to a dictatorship of a magnitude or horrid propportions. This would lead to an all out war in the nation and it would then be time to take back our nation.
That would be to some democracy... but to other (majority) people it would be communism or naziism.

Winchester · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 6474 Location: Montana

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3335 Location: London

Why don't you guys vote? it's a poll?

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 12549 Location: idaho

britboy wrote: Why don't you guys vote? it's a poll?

I will vote no on your poll, but your poll question is a little flawed in the way it is worded. To take away our rights in the manner you are talking about is inherently wrong. It would also be illegal and detrimental to the bill of rights and the constitution. To remove or abolish the second amendment is to thrash the entire constitution. You cannot remove one amendment without affecting all of the others.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15372 Location: Florida

britboy wrote: If a completely fair referendum was held in your country deciding whether or not to allow handguns in private hands -- a competely democratic - free vote ..

If the decision went AGAINST your personal view, would you respect the decision and abide by any new rules imposed thereafter, or think 'Who cares what my fellow countrymen have voted for -- I'm gonna fight against this one ..' and break the new law?

?

(US -- er .. the politicians are all united in saying the constitution will be altered if necessary on the basis of this referendum)

No. Neither would I agree with a referendum that banned jury trials, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, ownership of property, etc. There are certain fundamental liberties. A government (even with the approval of the people) that dispenses with these liberties is a tyranny.

Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 10837 Location: Podunk, Colorado

"I don't know what to say officer, some kids broke in and stole all the handguns last night".

ikari · Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 7085 Location: Colorado

Your hypothetical is exactly why the uS is not a "true" democracy, and why a strict, pure democracy is a bad idea.

Anarko-Kapitalizt · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 2517

ikari wrote: Your hypothetical is exactly why the uS is not a "true" democracy, and why a strict, pure democracy is a bad idea.

Democracy in general is a bad idea.

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

repsect? no my rights are my rights and that should not change

micfranklin · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject:

The new rule against gun use would be unconstitutional, so f**k no, I wouldn't respect that decision and if you were for guns then I assume you wouldn't either.

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3335 Location: London

It's strange -- a lot of people (including those replying) seem adverse to actually voting in this poll. Whats the problem? I'm very interested in seeing who is going to vote what!! Lilwolf? Wolverine?? Whats your thoughts about democracy when the going gets tough ....?

Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 10837 Location: Podunk, Colorado

Democracy is mob ruled oppression. Thats my thought on democracy, thankfully we don't live in one.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 12549 Location: idaho

britboy wrote: It's strange -- a lot of people (including those replying) seem adverse to actually voting in this poll. Whats the problem? I'm very interested in seeing who is going to vote what!! Lilwolf? Wolverine?? Whats your thoughts about democracy when the going gets tough ....?

Democracy is fine as long as it leaves the bill of rights alone as well as the Constitution. I could never support any law that even took a step in that direction. To do so would make it very likely that a war would erupt in this land. That is why we keep our guns and that is why we would never give up our guns..... To those that would assume that americans who value our guns and our rights would surrender them they have their heads in a very dark place and it stinks. As in the fellow in the photo here.

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

:rotf:

Korimyr the Rat · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 983 Location: Wyoming

Yeah, I'll vote. I am not afraid of admitting that I have little respect for democracy; in particular, I've long held that democracy is only better than dictatorship because of my poor chances of getting to be the dictator.

In any case, there are some principles that are too sacred to accept their violation-- whether democratic or otherwise-- and my belief that free men and women ought to be allowed to arm themselves is one of them.

I would stand in similar defiance to a government-- any government-- that prohibited free political speech, or enforced religious law, or denied its citizens the right to travel abroad.

These are the marks of fearful, weak governments, and such governments do not deserve to exist. If they are allowed to exist, they create fearful, weak citizens... and this, too, should not be tolerated.

mattman42 · Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 661 Location: Maine

Someone had to have said it, but the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, thus it would overpower any referendum.

bigstick61 · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:03 am Post subject:

This is in fact the very reason why democracy is dangerous and a terrible form of government. Since when are rights subject to the whim of the people? In a democracy, your rights can simply be voted away by the majority, and the government often feels more empowered to enforce the law as the "will of the people." There is no rule of law in a democracy. Even though some States have become democracies, and we have become democratic, thank goodness that we were formed as and still are a republic and not a democracy. While the people should have representation and be the ones to establish a government, the people should never rule outright; the law should rule.