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Magorion

I wonder why so many people believe Hitler and the NSDAP were socialist or "liberal". Everything suggests that Hitler was extreme right-wing. After the election win in 1933, Hitler and the fascists started purging the party of its socialist members. Look up Ernst Röhm and the SA. The NSDAP was originally a common, rather manstream workers party until the extremist fascists took over the power of the party. Hitler made sure to strengthen the business ties with foreign companies, as well as domestic companies. The corporations in the United States, Austria, Switzerland and within Germany, were very pleased with Hitler's pro-business policies. Corporate big shots were after all the main force in getting the NSDAP into power in the first place. Hitler made sure EG Farben, IBM, Ford, GE, GM, Esso and Coca Cola could conduct their business in peace in the Nazi Reich, while Jewish shops and banks were scrutinised and were taken away from their owners. Hitler also made sure to weaken the unions, so that the workers couldn't do as much damage when or if they found out that the Reich was using slave labour, marginalising the need for the paid worker and causing them nothing but misery. Programmes such as Lebensborn was set into effect so that women would stay at home or in clinics popping out "Aryan" babies, while the men were fighing for the Homeland (Heimatland). The Nazis saw the women primarly as mothers and caregivers, and they were not fit for much else. Homosxuals (like Röhm) were seen as an abomination before the Maker. Hitler was deeply religious, and the Nazis had belt buckels with "Gott Mitt Uns" ("God With Us") written on them. It's a myth that Nazis hated Christianity. In fact, in thir platform they state that they did not oppose the Christian religion, apart from the "Jewish materialism" within it.

Got any sound arguments to show as to why the Nazis were left-wing, socialist or "liberal"?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

NSDAP is an acronym that means National Socialist German Workers Party.

Their platform was inarguably Socialist. The Nazi party is a variation of Socialism, and so is Fascism.

Narvik · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 607 Location: Orsa

cap'n queasy wrote: NSDAP is an acronym that means National Socialist German Workers Party.

Their platform was inarguably Socialist. The Nazi party is a variation of Socialism, and so is Fascism.
I can call myself a socialist that doesn't make me one.

Nothing you said is true, except the name on Hitlers party.

Magorion · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: NSDAP is an acronym that means National Socialist German Workers Party.

Their platform was inarguably Socialist. The Nazi party is a variation of Socialism, and so is Fascism.

How about the facts my post touched upon?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Magorion wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: NSDAP is an acronym that means National Socialist German Workers Party.

Their platform was inarguably Socialist. The Nazi party is a variation of Socialism, and so is Fascism.

How about the facts my post touched upon?

They aren't factual. The Nazis controlled everything in Germany with an iron hand. And in a socialist state, that is what happens. The fact that they were Nationaist, doesn't mean they weren't socialists.

Hence the name of the ideology, National Socialism.

Anarko-Kapitalizt · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 2517

cap'n queasy wrote: NSDAP is an acronym that means National Socialist German Workers Party.

Their platform was inarguably Socialist. The Nazi party is a variation of Socialism, and so is Fascism.

Agreed. When the state controls all or nearly all of the factors of production, that is socialism (or more accurate: state socialism). The thing that seperates Hitler from the state socialists is his exuberent nationalism.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: NSDAP is an acronym that means National Socialist German Workers Party.

Their platform was inarguably Socialist. The Nazi party is a variation of Socialism, and so is Fascism.

Agreed. When the state controls all or nearly all of the factors of production, that is socialism (or more accurate: state socialism). The thing that seperates Hitler from the state socialists is his exuberent nationalism.

Quite. :-D

Magorion · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: Magorion wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: NSDAP is an acronym that means National Socialist German Workers Party.

Their platform was inarguably Socialist. The Nazi party is a variation of Socialism, and so is Fascism.

How about the facts my post touched upon?

They aren't factual. The Nazis controlled everything in Germany with an iron hand. And in a socialist state, that is what happens. The fact that they were Nationaist, doesn't mean they weren't socialists.

Hence the name of the ideology, National Socialism.

Sure it is. Hitler came to power through big corporations, and under the rule of the Nazi Reich big business could keep on with their activities virtually unchecked. Do you deny that? Do you deny what I wrote on Röhm/SA? Do you deny that women were seen as caregivers and homosexuals were an abomination? Do you deny that "Gott Mitt Uns" was written on their belt buckles? Do you deny that the Nazis were fascist, and that fascism is right-wing?

Anarko-Kapitalizt · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 2517

Magorion wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Magorion wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: NSDAP is an acronym that means National Socialist German Workers Party.

Their platform was inarguably Socialist. The Nazi party is a variation of Socialism, and so is Fascism.

How about the facts my post touched upon?

They aren't factual. The Nazis controlled everything in Germany with an iron hand. And in a socialist state, that is what happens. The fact that they were Nationaist, doesn't mean they weren't socialists.

Hence the name of the ideology, National Socialism.

Sure it is. Hitler came to power through big corporations, and under the rule of the Nazi Reich big business could keep on with their activities virtually unchecked. Do you deny that? Do you deny what I wrote on Röhm/SA? Do you deny that women were seen as caregivers and homosexuals were an abomination? Do you deny that "Gott Mitt Uns" was written on their belt buckles? Do you deny that the Nazis were fascist, and that fascism is right-wing?

If the Nazis were fascists, they'd still be socialists.

Magorion · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject:

Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: If the Nazis were fascists, they'd still be socialists.

No, as the two mutually exclude eachother. They are opposites.

thefranzkafkafront · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject:

Becasue they had socialist policies and developed out of a socialist party.

Not socialists but similar.

You have to rember right and left are bulls**t terms.

They were totalitarian state socialists with certain extreme social conversertaive and racial leanings, not garden varietey authoritarian socialists or social democrats.

They did none the less emerge out of socialism.

Raskolnikov · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 334

Quote: They did none the less emerge out of socialism.

some people see the world in terms of black and white. americans tend to see it in terms of 'american' and 'socialist'.

Anarko-Kapitalizt · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 2517

Raskolnikov wrote: Quote: They did none the less emerge out of socialism.

some people see the world in terms of black and white. americans tend to see it in terms of 'american' and 'socialist'.

Thats pretty much right on.

Raskolnikov · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 334

Quote: Thats pretty much right on.

it's also pretty much the reason i'm happy not to be an american.

Anarko-Kapitalizt · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 2517

Raskolnikov wrote: Quote: Thats pretty much right on.

it's also pretty much the reason i'm happy not to be an american.

Well I kind of like being called "un-American", makes me feel like I'm doing something right.

Raskolnikov · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 334

Quote: Well I kind of like being called "un-American", makes me feel like I'm doing something right.

ah, well, good for you my friend. that was a very un-american thing to say.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Sure it is. Hitler came to power through big corporations,

Hitler came to power by way of a socialists workers party fighting in the the streets.

He ruled everything in Germany with a iron fist for the "good of the German worker".

Anarko-Kapitalizt · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 2517

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Sure it is. Hitler came to power through big corporations,

Hitler came to power by way of a socialists workers party fighting in the the streets.

He ruled everything in Germany with a iron fist for the "good of the German worker".

If Germany wasn't a welfare state, I don't know if Hitler would have been able to rise to power so quickly and easily.

Raskolnikov · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 334

Quote: Hitler came to power by way of a socialists workers party fighting in the the streets.

He ruled everything in Germany with a iron fist for the "good of the German worker".

the captain doesn't share our slavish reliance on history books and professionals. he's better than that.

JDHURF · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 3012 Location: Tulsa, OK

Raskolnikov wrote: Quote: Hitler came to power by way of a socialists workers party fighting in the the streets.

He ruled everything in Germany with a iron fist for the "good of the German worker".

the captain doesn't share our slavish reliance on history books and professionals. he's better than that. Just as a fun trivial note on the side, the cap’n firmly believes that Fred Phelps – the church leader who protests at US soldiers funerals with signs that say “god hates f**s” – is a product of the Democratic party and is part of a conspiracy to undermine the Christian right; as contradictory as doing so under the alias of a democrat is. In other words Cap’n is a silly goose. :wink: