Political Crossfire Forums

prometeus

It is beyond any doubt that the viability of the state of Israel has been demonstrated. Arguments to the contrary based on support from "outside" have no merit because the reality is that Israel is existing with a good economy. In contrast none of the other countries in the region can make a claim to anything similar. So the question is: IF Israel would be dissolved, what could take its place? Under what form of government, who's leadership?

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 427 Location: Beirut

ummmm.....
i think the state of palestine will return and rebuild its economy and army and all the sectors to have a strong country again.
who's leadership? well they should have democratic elections and the people will choose whos leadership itll be.

and regarding the economy of israel.... its one of the best but not the best i shall remind you. If u want i can show prove it but i dont have time to search for it. (try wikipedia)

the sane voice · Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 2480

prometeus wrote: It is beyond any doubt that the viability of the state of Israel has been demonstrated. Arguments to the contrary based on support from "outside" have no merit because the reality is that Israel is existing with a good economy. In contrast none of the other countries in the region can make a claim to anything similar. So the question is: IF Israel would be dissolved, what could take its place? Under what form of government, who's leadership?
why israel will be dissolved?what kind of a question is that?
from all the countries in the me you chose israel?

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 427 Location: Beirut

^^^ hehe

well its the only country built on shallow ground... the guy has got a point

the sane voice · Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 2480

ALi* wrote: ^^^ hehe

well its the only country built on shallow ground... the guy has got a point
ali again you show your complete ignorance on the me.compared to its neighbors israel has more solid ground then a neutron star.

prometeus

the sane voice wrote: why israel will be dissolved?what kind of a question is that?
from all the countries in the me you chose israel?

You misundersood. The reason I asked the question was to show that no others in the region have demonstrated the slightest capacity for a viable modern nation. The economies of the rest of the ME are in serious trouble, and the people have not been able to "reinvent" themselves.

the sane voice · Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 2480

prometeus wrote: the sane voice wrote: why israel will be dissolved?what kind of a question is that?
from all the countries in the me you chose israel?

You misundersood. The reason I asked the question was to show that no others in the region have demonstrated the slightest capacity for a viable modern nation. The economies of the rest of the ME are in serious trouble, and the people have not been able to "reinvent" themselves.
my apologize-i understand you now.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: i think the state of palestine will return and rebuild its economy and army and all the sectors to have a strong country again.
Your statement is saying that there was a time when Palestine had a strong economy, army and all other sectors in regards to having a strong country. When was this time?

ALi* · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 427 Location: Beirut

your question is saying that everytime there is a weak economy in the middle-east we should bring over a bunch of people and give'm a country so they can kill and murder the original habitants of the country. (bcuz their economy is weak):?

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

The viable Middle East would probably consist of combination of Muslim Egypt, Coptic Egypt, Shiite Lebanon, Sunni Lebanon, Christian Lebanon, Iran, Kurdistan, Shiite Arabia, Wahabi/Sunni Arabia, Oman, Syria, Jordan, Bahrain, Kuwait and Turkey.

prometeus · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:

ALi* wrote: your question is saying that everytime there is a weak economy in the middle-east we should bring over a bunch of people and give'm a country so they can kill and murder the original habitants of the country. (bcuz their economy is weak):?

No, I think the point of it was that, other than Israel, no one else in the ME is capable of laying two stones on top of one an other, only throwing them. One of the reasons is jealousy, the other is probably closed mindedness.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: your question is saying that everytime there is a weak economy in the middle-east we should bring over a bunch of people and give'm a country so they can kill and murder the original habitants of the country. (bcuz their economy is weak)
Look at history Ali. The arabs started the killings of the Jews even prior to Israel being created.
Quote: In response to numerous Arab attacks on Jewish communities, the Haganah, a Jewish paramilitary organization, was formed on June 15, 1920. Tensions led to widespread violent disturbances on several occasions, notably in 1921, 1929 (primarily violent attacks by Arabs on Jews — see Hebron) and 1936-1939
This is decades prior to the creation of Israel. So no my question was not about bringing a bunch of people and giving them a country so they can kill and murder the original habitants......

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Venom wrote: Quote: your question is saying that everytime there is a weak economy in the middle-east we should bring over a bunch of people and give'm a country so they can kill and murder the original habitants of the country. (bcuz their economy is weak)

Look at history Ali. The arabs started the killings of the Jews even prior to Israel being created.
Quote: In response to numerous Arab attacks on Jewish communities, the Haganah, a Jewish paramilitary organization, was formed on June 15, 1920. Tensions led to widespread violent disturbances on several occasions, notably in 1921, 1929 (primarily violent attacks by Arabs on Jews — see Hebron) and 1936-1939

This is decades prior to the creation of Israel. So no my question was not about bringing a bunch of people and giving them a country so they can kill and murder the original habitants......

To be fair, for much of the time, the Jews in the Middle East lived peacefully along their Muslim neighbours. Compare that with the Jews in Europe who faced much worse.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

prometeus wrote: ALi* wrote: your question is saying that everytime there is a weak economy in the middle-east we should bring over a bunch of people and give'm a country so they can kill and murder the original habitants of the country. (bcuz their economy is weak):?

No, I think the point of it was that, other than Israel, no one else in the ME is capable of laying two stones on top of one an other, only throwing them. One of the reasons is jealousy, the other is probably closed mindedness.

No, the fact is Israel cannot be compared to other countries in the Middle East. Israel has benefitted greatly from the money and the expertise being poured into it by the diaspora. Besides, it was created in an organized way by the Jews for the Jews.

Other countries of the Middle East are artificial constructs for the most part and they struggle in basics of governing because of that.

Besides, what is the point of this thread? Is it to make Israelis feel superior or is it to engage in a critical discussions on why other Middle Eastern countries are struggling.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7421 Location: Petah Tikva

I dont understand what is being asked, you are saying that Israel has the strongest economy in the region which in the basic non complicated sense is true enough, but what exactly are you asking?

prometeus · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject:

Its more like I am saying that no one else in the region has demonstrated the ability to actually run a country. The absence of a viable alternative, underscores the the weakness of the rest of the region.

Hypothetically, ONLY hypothetically, if there were no Israel and no Jews living in the area, what would there be now? Well other than poverty, misery, and of course someone else to blame for it. Now I am not saying that Israel is perfect by any means, or that it hasn't done many things wrong, but no more that others, I am just stating what I see as the obvious.

prometeus · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject:

Besides, what is the point of this thread?

...is it to engage in a critical discussions on why other Middle Eastern countries are struggling.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Well if Israel did not exist I would suspect that the extremists in that region would put the blame for their problems on another country close to them. They would claim the land does indeed belong to them and it should be handed over. If it's handed over they will not resort to violence..... well that is what they will claim. Meanwhile Palestine would stay a breeding groups for terrorists as they spew out hate for the West and all that are not radical followers of Islam. Yes even the supporters of their movement that didn't meet their radical criteria would be sentenced to death. Sorry Plato and Slite... those are the cards that your playing.
But on a good note... Ali might become an elected official with his views.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Venom wrote: Well if Israel did not exist I would suspect that the extremists in that region would put the blame for their problems on another country close to them. They would claim the land does indeed belong to them and it should be handed over. If it's handed over they will not resort to violence..... well that is what they will claim. Meanwhile Palestine would stay a breeding groups for terrorists as they spew out hate for the West and all that are not radical followers of Islam. Yes even the supporters of their movement that didn't meet their radical criteria would be sentenced to death. Sorry Plato and Slite... those are the cards that your playing.
But on a good note... Ali might become an elected official with his views.

That's a fallacious claim. If Israel did not exist, there is no telling what the Muslim world would look like. You are assuming that radical Islam would exist in its current form one way or another.

prometeus wrote: Its more like I am saying that no one else in the region has demonstrated the ability to actually run a country. The absence of a viable alternative, underscores the the weakness of the rest of the region.

I am not sure on what you mean by that. Not all other countries in the region are "failed states". Egypt, Kuwait, UAE, Jordan, Iran, Bahrain, Oman, Syria, Turkey, etc are fairly strong states, though they are fairly oppressive.

Indeed, UAE and Kuwait are very rich.

prometeus wrote: Hypothetically, ONLY hypothetically, if there were no Israel and no Jews living in the area, what would there be now? Well other than poverty, misery, and of course someone else to blame for it. Now I am not saying that Israel is perfect by any means, or that it hasn't done many things wrong, but no more that others, I am just stating what I see as the obvious.

I think you forgot that this is an oil rich region and that has brought so much [unearned] wealth to the region. Kuwait and UAE are far more advanced in some technological respects than the West.

So, if Israel did not exist, the region wouldn't go to hell. It would just be different.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: That's a fallacious claim. If Israel did not exist, there is no telling what the Muslim world would look like. You are assuming that radical Islam would exist in its current form one way or another.
Radical Islam existed prior to the creation of Israel. One source...
Hitler had muslim divisions that came from Arab nations. They were sold of the common goal to wipe out the Jews. So maybe they wouldn't be flying planes into buildings, radical Islam would indeed still exist.
Well unless of course the Muslims took over the world... it wouldn't be radical it would be the law then.

Quote: So, if Israel did not exist, the region wouldn't go to hell. It would just be different
Well if the US ever gets a real alternative car mass produced that is reasonable then I image the region just might go to hell, but I guess that's a different situation all together.