Political Crossfire Forums

[StrikeEmd15]

Since I couldn't find a thread pertaining to this topic, I'm gonna start one myself.

I think that unschooling (the student chooses how, when, why, and what he or she learns) is and would be more effective than regular schooling. For instance: in regular school, I have to learn all this crud I'll never have to use again (i.e. Algebra II, Bio II, etc.), and will probably forget after colleague anyway. But if I learned what I wanted at my own pace, I'd probably stay interested. Now, the primary reason I go to my high school is primarily because most of my best firends are there. If they weren't there, I simply wouldn't go. Now, any thoughts, arguments, comments, etc?

[ideal]

The trouble is, students(mostly in mandatory schooling but it happens at the college level as well) tend to assume these subjects will be pointless later in life while there counterparts in the working world have been proven wrong from when they made those same assumptions.

I never thought any of the stuff I learned in school would be important(granted, going from a fast paced private school to a public school in an area with a poorer education system kept me from learning anything beyond language in my highschool years), but now that I've worked with food, chemicals, and the structural integrity of building, and now trying to go to school for accounting, I find that my academic knowledge is sorely lacking.

Structured schooling introduces you to the subjects you have no interest in but will, in fact, need in the future.

[StrikeEmd15]

ideal wrote: The trouble is, students(mostly in mandatory schooling but it happens at the college level as well) tend to assume these subjects will be pointless later in life while there counterparts in the working world have been proven wrong from when they made those same assumptions.

I never thought any of the stuff I learned in school would be important(granted, going from a fast paced private school to a public school in an area with a poorer education system kept me from learning anything beyond language in my highschool years), but now that I've worked with food, chemicals, and the structural integrity of building, and now trying to go to school for accounting, I find that my academic knowledge is sorely lacking.

Structured schooling introduces you to the subjects you have no interest in but will, in fact, need in the future.
Actually, I've already tried that aspect for my desired career, but from what I've found out, I really don't need to know most of what I've learned at this point. Not to mention most modern-day tech jobs don't really need all that much education anyways, as instinct, and in some cases technology itself, will make certain educational aspects obsolete. I've also looked into my desired career and found Biology has obsolutely no relativity. I'm not assuming anything; I've tried using the Math I say I'll never have to use again, and, from what I gather, I'm right. However, I've only looked into a handful of careers I'm interested it, so I can't honestly say I'm speaking for all jobs and careers.

[The Grandmaster]

You're going to learn most of what you will use in your life and job on your own, not in school, or even college. The majority of your skill in your job is going to be from experience, not from the 4 years in school.

A Doctor might be an exception, but I'd venture to say even they learn more in the field then they did in Med School.

[ideal]

StrikeEmd15 wrote: However, I've only looked into a handful of careers I'm interested it, so I can't honestly say I'm speaking for all jobs and careers.

There's my point. At eighteen(I'm assuming you're younger) my life's goal was to spend some time in the Navy, then join a police force and do that until retirement age rolled around. Now, at twenty four, I'm planning on going to school for accounting. If you had asked me six years ago, the connection from Navy and police force to accounting never would have occurred to me, but now, I'm rehashing stuff I should have paid attention to when I was younger.

[ideal]

The Grandmaster wrote: You're going to learn most of what you will use in your life and job on your own, not in school, or even college. The majority of your skill in your job is going to be from experience, not from the 4 years in school.

True, but the basis comes from schooling. You need to make sure that you have that basis, the ability to comprehend the things you may one day face, before you go out into the world or you end up with trouble getting to the point where you are learning the majority of your trade on the job.

[LostSoul3412]

Absolutely not.

While this is somewhat the situation in college, in high school (as I am assuming the question is directed towards), students are too irresponsible to manage their own education on that level. As such, there need to be rules in place to prevent students from effectively ruining their futures because they were disinterested during high school.

[toddytodd]

StrikeEmd15 wrote: Since I couldn't find a thread pertaining to this topic, I'm gonna start one myself.

I think that unschooling (the student chooses how, when, why, and what he or she learns) is and would be more effective than regular schooling. For instance: in regular school, I have to learn all this crud I'll never have to use again (i.e. Algebra II, Bio II, etc.), and will probably forget after colleague anyway. But if I learned what I wanted at my own pace, I'd probably stay interested. Now, the primary reason I go to my high school is primarily because most of my best firends are there. If they weren't there, I simply wouldn't go. Now, any thoughts, arguments, comments, etc?

I have found that what I thought I would never need, while I may not have need of it exactly like school suggests, the actual method of learning it helped in other areas.
As said previously, unless you are in a very specialized career, college is there only to help you balance your life and get you ready for the real world. A college degree in agriculture doesn't help you be a computer programmer, but I have seen people in at my work offered a computer coding job simply because of the college degree (in agriculture).
If nothing else, learning things helps develop the brain for learning other things after school - it warms the brain up (so to speak) so that it is ready to absorb and gather other info you will need later in life. It also helps you develop social skills and an understanding of others different than yourself.

[perdidochas]

StrikeEmd15 wrote: Since I couldn't find a thread pertaining to this topic, I'm gonna start one myself.

I think that unschooling (the student chooses how, when, why, and what he or she learns) is and would be more effective than regular schooling. For instance: in regular school, I have to learn all this crud I'll never have to use again (i.e. Algebra II, Bio II, etc.), and will probably forget after colleague anyway. But if I learned what I wanted at my own pace, I'd probably stay interested. Now, the primary reason I go to my high school is primarily because most of my best firends are there. If they weren't there, I simply wouldn't go. Now, any thoughts, arguments, comments, etc?

The problem is that none of us can predict the future, especially at your age. Unless you are one of the rare few who gets a job at age 18 (or 22) and sticks at the same exact job until retirement, you don't know what knowledge you will need. The average person changes careers 3 to 5 times in a lifetime. I know I'm at my 3rd career at age 40. I don't expect to be doing the job I'm doing at age 50.

The typical high school college prep classload is a pretty general one, that will be a good basis for most college degrees, as well as to get started on a wide variety of careers.

[perdidochas]

StrikeEmd15 wrote: ideal wrote: The trouble is, students(mostly in mandatory schooling but it happens at the college level as well) tend to assume these subjects will be pointless later in life while there counterparts in the working world have been proven wrong from when they made those same assumptions.

I never thought any of the stuff I learned in school would be important(granted, going from a fast paced private school to a public school in an area with a poorer education system kept me from learning anything beyond language in my highschool years), but now that I've worked with food, chemicals, and the structural integrity of building, and now trying to go to school for accounting, I find that my academic knowledge is sorely lacking.

Structured schooling introduces you to the subjects you have no interest in but will, in fact, need in the future.
Actually, I've already tried that aspect for my desired career, but from what I've found out, I really don't need to know most of what I've learned at this point. Not to mention most modern-day tech jobs don't really need all that much education anyways, as instinct, and in some cases technology itself, will make certain educational aspects obsolete. I've also looked into my desired career and found Biology has obsolutely no relativity. I'm not assuming anything; I've tried using the Math I say I'll never have to use again, and, from what I gather, I'm right. However, I've only looked into a handful of careers I'm interested it, so I can't honestly say I'm speaking for all jobs and careers.

Every human should have a basic understanding of biology--why? Because we are living things, and it is good to be able to understand biology to potentially understand illnesses, etc.

In terms of math, you never know. The best thing about learning math is that you learn analytical thinking (you should be learning that in biology as well). This can all be used in a variety of fields. I am in an IT field. I use the scientific method almost daily in troubleshooting. Guess where I learned it? In science class, not technology classes.

[perdidochas]

The Grandmaster wrote: You're going to learn most of what you will use in your life and job on your own, not in school, or even college. The majority of your skill in your job is going to be from experience, not from the 4 years in school.

A Doctor might be an exception, but I'd venture to say even they learn more in the field then they did in Med School.

However, a doctor without the detailed knowledge of anatomy and physiology as a background, wouldn't be able to learn much in the field.

[micfranklin]

One of my math teachers said that after college or even high school you would never ever use algebra II or complicated math again, but it help you think analytically anyway. That true?

[perdidochas]

micfranklin wrote: One of my math teachers said that after college or even high school you would never ever use algebra II or complicated math again, but it help you think analytically anyway. That true?

It depends on your field. Also, honestly, I can't remember what I was taught in Algebra II, to know if I still use it or not.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

micfranklin wrote: One of my math teachers said that after college or even high school you would never ever use algebra II or complicated math again, but it help you think analytically anyway. That true?

Depends on your field of work. I certainly think that you might find a use for it.

[Enoch]

perdidochas wrote: StrikeEmd15 wrote: Since I couldn't find a thread pertaining to this topic, I'm gonna start one myself.

I think that unschooling (the student chooses how, when, why, and what he or she learns) is and would be more effective than regular schooling. For instance: in regular school, I have to learn all this crud I'll never have to use again (i.e. Algebra II, Bio II, etc.), and will probably forget after colleague anyway. But if I learned what I wanted at my own pace, I'd probably stay interested. Now, the primary reason I go to my high school is primarily because most of my best firends are there. If they weren't there, I simply wouldn't go. Now, any thoughts, arguments, comments, etc?

The problem is that none of us can predict the future, especially at your age. Unless you are one of the rare few who gets a job at age 18 (or 22) and sticks at the same exact job until retirement, you don't know what knowledge you will need. The average person changes careers 3 to 5 times in a lifetime. I know I'm at my 3rd career at age 40. I don't expect to be doing the job I'm doing at age 50.

The typical high school college prep classload is a pretty general one, that will be a good basis for most college degrees, as well as to get started on a wide variety of careers. You are right chas. Hell, at 25 I am in my second career. Moved from banking to higher education.

In addition to what you stated, there is also the fact that high school is about more than just teaching the basics...it's about teaching a student HOW to learn. High school gives students a basic skill set to prepare them for college, or a job for some. Part of that preperation is getting students in a position where they know how to study, apply knowledge, and learn for their new career choice or college major.

[eXploiTeD]

Enoch wrote: perdidochas wrote: StrikeEmd15 wrote: Since I couldn't find a thread pertaining to this topic, I'm gonna start one myself.

I think that unschooling (the student chooses how, when, why, and what he or she learns) is and would be more effective than regular schooling. For instance: in regular school, I have to learn all this crud I'll never have to use again (i.e. Algebra II, Bio II, etc.), and will probably forget after colleague anyway. But if I learned what I wanted at my own pace, I'd probably stay interested. Now, the primary reason I go to my high school is primarily because most of my best firends are there. If they weren't there, I simply wouldn't go. Now, any thoughts, arguments, comments, etc?

The problem is that none of us can predict the future, especially at your age. Unless you are one of the rare few who gets a job at age 18 (or 22) and sticks at the same exact job until retirement, you don't know what knowledge you will need. The average person changes careers 3 to 5 times in a lifetime. I know I'm at my 3rd career at age 40. I don't expect to be doing the job I'm doing at age 50.

The typical high school college prep classload is a pretty general one, that will be a good basis for most college degrees, as well as to get started on a wide variety of careers. You are right chas. Hell, at 25 I am in my second career. Moved from banking to higher education.

In addition to what you stated, there is also the fact that high school is about more than just teaching the basics...it's about teaching a student HOW to learn. High school gives students a basic skill set to prepare them for college, or a job for some. Part of that preperation is getting students in a position where they know how to study, apply knowledge, and learn for their new career choice or college major.

Which is exactly why student-centered learning is so needed in North America. They aren't learning how to think, they're learning how to regurgitate information.

I think the posters premise is right on, but there is no one-size-fits-all education model. I do feel, however, that we need to give the student more responsibility over his or her own education.

[John Galt]

I think compulsory education ought end. Children should be able to be working in coal mines again, if they wish it.

[The Comrade]

i think once a child hits highschool he should have free reign over his classes. until then everyone gets the basics.

[patrickt]

One of our problems, in my opinion, are people who think without the basic information they need to form their thoughts logically. Schools are intended, in my opinion, to impart basic facts and skills.

[bigstick61]

The only courses which I took in high school which I have yet to have found a use for are my literature classes I had to take. Everything else I've used, or at least found somewhat useful for something. My math, science, compisition, and economics courses have helped me in college. Anatomy is useful for first-aid purposes. History and government has helped too, but in HS I knew more than the teacher. Speech and Debate has helped me with public speaking and debating. My religion courses helped me to debate people of other faiths (I'm Catholic and went to a Lutheran school; lots of in-class debating). Spanish helped refine my Spanish, in which I had started to lose some proficiency, although I was for all practical intents and purposes fluent already. Naval Science helped me with NROTC and similar things. I can now draw better due to art class. I just can't find a use for my literature courses. I doubt I ever will.