Political Crossfire Forums

[JDinPhilly]

The answer to your question unfortunately is yes. Because they can't foresee the consequences to their actions. And we are not just talking about robbing the corner store here. You have to take into account shooting each other with no robbery involved. It's funny, the to people debating me about gun laws are from France/Scotland and down under.
go to this link http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/murders_map/ and highlight any dot on the map and you tell me if gun control deters crime.

[Blinky]

JDinPhilly wrote: The answer to your question unfortunately is yes. Because they can't foresee the consequences to their actions.

If criminals cannot foresee consequences, then why do gun owners insist that a gun in the hands of a law abiding citizen is a deterrent?

So you're telling me that if a kid knows that the penalty for posession of an illegal firearm is 25 years, they're going to risk spending the best part of their natural life behind bars for petty crimes like armed robbery of corner stores?
Deterrent is the word. I believe in deterrents.

JDinPhilly wrote: And we are not just talking about robbing the corner store here. You have to take into account shooting each other with no robbery involved.

What is the motivation for shooting someone with no robbery involved? Target practice?


JDinPhilly wrote: It's funny, the to people debating me about gun laws are from France/Scotland and down under.
go to this link http://inquirer.philly.com/graphics/murders_map/ and highlight any dot on the map and you tell me if gun control deters crime.

You don't really have gun control. Or substantial enough deterrents, clearly.


What is the motivation for shooting someone with no robbery involved? Target practice?

[JDinPhilly]

Hm. how about the fact that we live in a culture that glorifies guns and violence. I don't know what it is like in Australia, but the culture here in the states is guns, violence, slutty women, and bling. I'm talking about the 7-30 age group. Why is it so hard for you to believe that human life means nothing to a lot of people these days? Didi you see the link that i put in my last post? And that is only from Jan 1st of this year. The murder count here is 288. Most of which is gun related. You think the people who committed those murders were worried about 25 years to life? That is the only way of life, sadly, that they know. Live by the gun...

[JDinPhilly]

Here is an answer to your question about murder..reasons..37.7%arguments 7.1% drugs..6% other felonies..10.1% robbery..16.5 unknown reasons..and 22.5% other motives. I ddn't see target practice. Those numbers are from the U.S.

[Blinky]

We get the same music/television/films/video games as you. We all have access to the internet. So what is it about Americans that make them so much more susceptible to this glorification of violence, do you think?
Live by the gun, die by the gun indeed.
37.7% of murders with guns are due to arguments you say? That's a reason for gun-control in itself.
Wheres the link, btw?

[evil muppet]

Has anyone ever really bothered to figure the criminal mindset out? You are trying to question whether firearms is a deterrent or not by using how YOU would think. Not how a egocentric punk would think.
-----------
Quote:
the psychological make up of criminals and violent people.

* Extreme egomania/selfishness/me-based orientation
* Poor impulse control
* Manipulative behavior
* Inability to accurately "read" other people's emotions
* Little or no ability to delay gratification
* Disassociation from the negative effects of their actions/guilt
* Your "value" is defined by what you can do for them
* The only consistent in their behavior is what benefits/pleases them.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/criminalmindset.html

Quote:
The Five Stages of Violent Crime:
Crime and violence are processes that take time to develop. The attack is not the first step, the preliminary triangle must be built. There are five distinct stages that are easily identified:

1) Intent --This is where the person crosses a normal mental boundary. From this point, the person is mentally prepared to commit violence in order to get what he wants – whatever that may be. Often a person who has decided to commit a physical assault is either looking for an excuse to attack or is trying to hide his intentions until he is in position.

2) Interview -- This is where the criminal decides if you are safe to attack. Yes, with all violence, the assailant's safety is a critical factor in deciding whether or not to attack.

3) Positioning -- This is the criminal putting himself in a place where he can successfully attack you. A criminal (or even a violent person) doesn't want to fight you; he wants to overwhelm you.

4) Attack -- The attack is the criminal/violent person using force, or the threat of force, to get what he wants. The triangle is complete and the assault -- or the threat of assault -- occurs. The first three stages have been achieved, and there is no reason for the criminal *not* to use violence to get what he wants.

Many robberies and rapes are committed with the simple threat of or display of violence. A violent, emotional outburst, won't physically harm the victim, but clearly indicates that unless he/she cooperates with the tantrum thrower, the victim will be hurt.

5) Reaction -- Reaction is how the criminal feels about what he has done. Nearly 80 percent of women seriously harmed by rapists are hurt after the actual sexual assault.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html

Check out the links. If you read this, and then apply this to the issue of armed self-defense, then the answer of deterrence should be obvious, unless your an idiot.