Political Crossfire Forums

[private_citizen]

Lucky Luke wrote:
Have you got any idea of what the murder rate of Montreal is Private_Citizen?

Here is a clue:

Quote: Canada's rate of incarceration was 118 per 100,000 total population.


http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/reports/pdf/pls_2002/08_e.htm

:-D
:-D


So I should be happy being one of the statistics? OH YEAH ME! I was voilently raped and almost killed by 116 of 100,000 people..

can I get my medal now?

[Lucky Luke]

private_citizen wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
Have you got any idea of what the murder rate of Montreal is Private_Citizen?

Here is a clue:

Quote: Canada's rate of incarceration was 118 per 100,000 total population.


http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/reports/pdf/pls_2002/08_e.htm

:-D
:-D


So I should be happy being one of the statistics? OH YEAH ME! I was voilently raped and almost killed by 116 of 100,000 people..

can I get my medal now?

We have crimes in all our countries with or without gun control laws, the fact is that the most heinous of all crimes has not got a high rate in countries that don't believe in guns for self defence.

Here we discuss gun control and how it can save lives, not the personal lives of posters. Gun control do not reduce the number of rapists, rapists very seldom use guns to commit their crimes and if they do and kill their victim it is recorded as a murder anyway not a rape.

:-D
:-D

[micfranklin]

Lucky Luke wrote: private_citizen wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
Have you got any idea of what the murder rate of Montreal is Private_Citizen?

Here is a clue:

Quote: Canada's rate of incarceration was 118 per 100,000 total population.


http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/reports/pdf/pls_2002/08_e.htm

:-D
:-D


So I should be happy being one of the statistics? OH YEAH ME! I was voilently raped and almost killed by 116 of 100,000 people..

can I get my medal now?

We have crimes in all our countries with or without gun control laws, the fact is that the most heinous of all crimes has not got a high rate in countries that don't believe in guns for self defence.

Here we discuss gun control and how it can save lives, not the personal lives of posters. Gun control do not reduce the number of rapists, rapists very seldom use guns to commit their crimes and if they do and kill their victim it is recorded as a murder anyway not a rape.

:-D
:-D

Unfortunately gun control does more harm than good.

[private_citizen]

Lucky Luke wrote:
We have crimes in all our countries with or without gun control laws, the fact is that the most heinous of all crimes has not got a high rate in countries that don't believe in guns for self defence.

Here we discuss gun control and how it can save lives, not the personal lives of posters. Gun control do not reduce the number of rapists, rapists very seldom use guns to commit their crimes and if they do and kill their victim it is recorded as a murder anyway not a rape.

:-D
:-D

EXACTLY!! THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE POINT!! Gun control does not stop rapists from USING guns... it stops rapists from raping and killing because the VICTIM was not denied a gun with gun control laws dening her a gun ! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for making my point!!!

[Lucky Luke]

micfranklin wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: private_citizen wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
Have you got any idea of what the murder rate of Montreal is Private_Citizen?

Here is a clue:

Quote: Canada's rate of incarceration was 118 per 100,000 total population.


http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/reports/pdf/pls_2002/08_e.htm

:-D
:-D


So I should be happy being one of the statistics? OH YEAH ME! I was voilently raped and almost killed by 116 of 100,000 people..

can I get my medal now?

We have crimes in all our countries with or without gun control laws, the fact is that the most heinous of all crimes has not got a high rate in countries that don't believe in guns for self defence.

Here we discuss gun control and how it can save lives, not the personal lives of posters. Gun control do not reduce the number of rapists, rapists very seldom use guns to commit their crimes and if they do and kill their victim it is recorded as a murder anyway not a rape.

:-D
:-D

Unfortunately gun control does more harm than good.

No.

Quote:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

private_citizen wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
We have crimes in all our countries with or without gun control laws, the fact is that the most heinous of all crimes has not got a high rate in countries that don't believe in guns for self defence.

Here we discuss gun control and how it can save lives, not the personal lives of posters. Gun control do not reduce the number of rapists, rapists very seldom use guns to commit their crimes and if they do and kill their victim it is recorded as a murder anyway not a rape.

:-D
:-D

EXACTLY!! THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE POINT!! Gun control does not stop rapists from USING guns... it stops rapists from raping and killing because the VICTIM was not denied a gun with gun control laws dening her a gun ! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for making my point!!!

I never wrote that gun control does not stop rapists from using guns Private_Citizen, I wrote that gun control does not stop rapists from raping people because rapists don't use guns to rape their victims as a general rule.

The crime of rape is not linked to guns or gun control Private_Citizen, read:

Quote: Table 66. Personal crimes of violence, 2004:

Percent of incidents, by victim-offender relationship,
type of crime and weapons use

incident..........................Rape/Sexual assault/a*
Number................................207,240
Percent of incidents
No Weapon used.....................86.9%
Total incidents weapon used.......7.9%
Total firearm used .......................0% *

*Note: Responses for weapons use are tallied once, based upon a hierarchy.
*Estimate is based on about 10 or fewer sample cases.
...Not applicable.
a/Includes verbal threats of rape and threats of sexual assault
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus0404.pdf

:-D
:-D

[micfranklin]

Lucky Luke wrote: micfranklin wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: private_citizen wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
Have you got any idea of what the murder rate of Montreal is Private_Citizen?

Here is a clue:

Quote: Canada's rate of incarceration was 118 per 100,000 total population.


http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/reports/pdf/pls_2002/08_e.htm

:-D
:-D


So I should be happy being one of the statistics? OH YEAH ME! I was voilently raped and almost killed by 116 of 100,000 people..

can I get my medal now?

We have crimes in all our countries with or without gun control laws, the fact is that the most heinous of all crimes has not got a high rate in countries that don't believe in guns for self defence.

Here we discuss gun control and how it can save lives, not the personal lives of posters. Gun control do not reduce the number of rapists, rapists very seldom use guns to commit their crimes and if they do and kill their victim it is recorded as a murder anyway not a rape.

:-D
:-D

Unfortunately gun control does more harm than good.

No.

Quote:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

:-D
:-D

One thing. Handguns seem to be on the top, but other guns (which includes a huge variety from rifles to machineguns) is far less than the use of handguns.

[Lucky Luke]

micfranklin wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: micfranklin wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: private_citizen wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
Have you got any idea of what the murder rate of Montreal is Private_Citizen?

Here is a clue:

Quote: Canada's rate of incarceration was 118 per 100,000 total population.


http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/reports/pdf/pls_2002/08_e.htm

:-D
:-D


So I should be happy being one of the statistics? OH YEAH ME! I was voilently raped and almost killed by 116 of 100,000 people..

can I get my medal now?

We have crimes in all our countries with or without gun control laws, the fact is that the most heinous of all crimes has not got a high rate in countries that don't believe in guns for self defence.

Here we discuss gun control and how it can save lives, not the personal lives of posters. Gun control do not reduce the number of rapists, rapists very seldom use guns to commit their crimes and if they do and kill their victim it is recorded as a murder anyway not a rape.

:-D
:-D

Unfortunately gun control does more harm than good.

No.

Quote:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

:-D
:-D

One thing. Handguns seem to be on the top, but other guns (which includes a huge variety from rifles to machineguns) is far less than the use of handguns.

1994 was the year a tough handgun control law was introduced, guns are not the problem, handguns are.

:-D
:-D

[micfranklin]

Lucky Luke wrote: micfranklin wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: micfranklin wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: private_citizen wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
Have you got any idea of what the murder rate of Montreal is Private_Citizen?

Here is a clue:

Quote: Canada's rate of incarceration was 118 per 100,000 total population.


http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/reports/pdf/pls_2002/08_e.htm

:-D
:-D


So I should be happy being one of the statistics? OH YEAH ME! I was voilently raped and almost killed by 116 of 100,000 people..

can I get my medal now?

We have crimes in all our countries with or without gun control laws, the fact is that the most heinous of all crimes has not got a high rate in countries that don't believe in guns for self defence.

Here we discuss gun control and how it can save lives, not the personal lives of posters. Gun control do not reduce the number of rapists, rapists very seldom use guns to commit their crimes and if they do and kill their victim it is recorded as a murder anyway not a rape.

:-D
:-D

Unfortunately gun control does more harm than good.

No.

Quote:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

:-D
:-D

One thing. Handguns seem to be on the top, but other guns (which includes a huge variety from rifles to machineguns) is far less than the use of handguns.

1994 was the year a tough handgun control law was introduced, guns are not the problem, handguns are.

:-D
:-D

Ummm......aren't handguns a type of gun?

[Lucky Luke]

micfranklin wrote:

Ummm......aren't handguns a type of gun?

Well done Micfranklin, so they are.

Gun control laws are not the ones that need strengthened but more specifically handgun control laws as this chart is telling us.
:-D
:-D

[micfranklin]

Lucky Luke wrote: micfranklin wrote:

Ummm......aren't handguns a type of gun?

Well done Micfranklin, so they are.

Gun control laws are not the ones that need strengthened but more specifically handgun control laws as this chart is telling us.
:-D
:-D

And what good could possibly come from handgun control?

[sailorman126]

lucky luke
you do know the biggest problem with your chart?
it says homicide and not murder. those are two compleatly difrent things.
example a cop kills a person in self defense that is a homocide.
so how many in that chart is from self defense?

[Lucky Luke]

micfranklin wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: micfranklin wrote:

Ummm......aren't handguns a type of gun?

Well done Micfranklin, so they are.

Gun control laws are not the ones that need strengthened but more specifically handgun control laws as this chart is telling us.
:-D
:-D

And what good could possibly come from handgun control?

Further handgun control will bring a repeat of this:



:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

sailorman126 wrote: lucky luke
you do know the biggest problem with your chart?
it says homicide and not murder. those are two compleatly difrent things.
example a cop kills a person in self defense that is a homocide.
so how many in that chart is from self defense?

Really Sailorman126, care to show us what difference does that make?

Quote: Methodology

Homicide as defined here includes murder and nonnegligent manslaughter which is the willful killing of one human being by another. The general analyses excluded deaths caused by negligence, suicide, or accident; justifiable homicides; and attempts to murder. Justifiable homicides based on the reports of law enforcement agencies are analyzed separately. Deaths from the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01 are not included in any of the analyses although they are availabe on the data file on which the analyses are based. These data are based solely on police investigation, as opposed to the determination of a court, medical examiner, coroner, jury, or other judicial body.

Not all agencies which report offense information to the FBI also submit supplemental data on homicides. About 91% of homicides reported in the UCR are included in the SHR. To account for the total number of homicides, this analysis weighted the SHR data to match national and State estimates prepared by the FBI. All victim-based analyses are adjusted in this manner.

While many agencies report supplemental data on homicides, much of the data concerning offenders may not be reported because no suspects were identified. The most significant problem in using SHR data to analyze offender characteristics is the sizable and growing number of unsolved homicides contained in the data file. Ignoring unsolved homicides, of course, would seriously understate calculated rates of offending by particular subgroups of the population, distort trends over time among these same subgroups, and bias observed patterns of offending to the extent that the rate of missing offender data is associated with offender characteristics.

To adjust for unsolved homicides, a method for offender imputation has been devised, using available information about the victims murdered in both solved and unsolved homicides. Through this imputation algorithm, the demographic characteristics of unidentified offenders are inferred on the basis of similar homicide cases -- similar in terms of the victim's demographic profile, circumstances of the homicide such as felony or argument, location of the homicide (region and urbaness), gun involvement, and year of the offense -- that had been solved. In other words, offender profiles for unsolved crimes are estimated based on the offender profiles in solved cases matched on victim age, sex, and race; circumstances of the homicide; location of the homicide; and gun involvement; as well as year. All offender-based estimates were imputed using this procedure

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/addinfo.htm

:-D
:-D

[JDinPhilly]

I would think that gun control helps criminals. By definition, a criminal does something he/she is not supposed to do in the eyes of the law. So, a criminal doesn't think twice about his or her gun laws in the community in which they live. So if a law abiding citizen for example; is not allowed to carry a firearm on them legally, then that leaves said citizen unable to defend themselves when a criminal makes the conscious decision to harm them. The sheeple following the laws are the ones who end up looking down the end of a barrel. :wink:

[Lucky Luke]

JDinPhilly wrote: I would think that gun control helps criminals. By definition, a criminal does something he/she is not supposed to do in the eyes of the law. So, a criminal doesn't think twice about his or her gun laws in the community in which they live. So if a law abiding citizen for example; is not allowed to carry a firearm on them legally, then that leaves said citizen unable to defend themselves when a criminal makes the conscious decision to harm them. The sheeple following the laws are the ones who end up looking down the end of a barrel. :wink:

Wrong, JDinPhilly criminals don't want to be arrested for being in possession of an illegal weapon before to commit their crime. This is why British criminals do not have guns as a general rule and this is why as a consequence, British police officers do not need a gun to make an arrest.

Even in America gun control laws have helped police officers to make very important arrests of criminals carrying guns they should not have. When it is not safe for a criminal to carry a gun, people are a lot safer.
:-D
:-D

[JDinPhilly]

Oh really? So when a 17 year old here in Philadelphia, a place that averages a gun shooting per day, decides to go rob the corner store, he actually stops and thinks about getting caught with an illegal firearm? And that deters him? No sir, I think you are wrong. I on the other hand would think twice about bringing my gun into the restaurant from my car. The gun violence is so bad here in the "bad lands" of Philly, that the police don't want to go there. Obviously to anybody with half a brain, gun laws don't mean a thing. It's a way of life.

[Lucky Luke]

JDinPhilly wrote: Oh really? So when a 17 year old here in Philadelphia, a place that averages a gun shooting per day, decides to go rob the corner store, he actually stops and thinks about getting caught with an illegal firearm? And that deters him? No sir, I think you are wrong. I on the other hand would think twice about bringing my gun into the restaurant from my car. The gun violence is so bad here in the "bad lands" of Philly, that the police don't want to go there. Obviously to anybody with half a brain, gun laws don't mean a thing. It's a way of life.

A good law is a law that is enforced, without enforcement laws are useless.
Your way of life has to change, killing one another at such insane rate is not a way of life, it is a way to die.
:-D
:-D

[JDinPhilly]

That sounds nice and pretty and all, but lets come back to reality. Of course killing is bad and people should be nice to each other and everybody should have flowers in their hair but thats not REALITY! Second, it's not my way of life. I just happen to live in a country and in a state and especially in a city that has more guns than it has people. It is impossible to enforce gun laws. I heard a story that they have this thing called a 'community gun.' 1 gun is hidden some place and many different people use the same gun. When they are done doing whatever they do with their gun, the put it back in the hiding place. Thats the society we live in. And i'm gonna have to put blame on parents, lack of any real education and popular culture. Ask a kid to name gun companies and i'm sure they could but ask them to name their local candidates in this past election and for the most part, they couldn't. And then they'probably shoot you for asking :lol:

[Blinky]

JDinPhilly wrote: Oh really? So when a 17 year old here in Philadelphia, a place that averages a gun shooting per day, decides to go rob the corner store, he actually stops and thinks about getting caught with an illegal firearm? And that deters him?

Well lets see. The kid can probably figure out that the absolute best he's gonna do from a corner store robbery is maybe $200 and a box of snickers bars. If, for arguments sake, the penalty for carrying (let alone using) an illegal firearm were 25 years in jail, is the 17 year old kid really going to risk being behind bars until he's 42 (!!!!!) for $200?

Or to put it another way, if he were convicted of a crime (any crime) that carried a 25 sentence, do you think he would pay $200 to have the conviction overturned? I think he would. In fact, I'd bet you anything you like that he would.