Political Crossfire Forums

[DSwain]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm

Jack Straw, former Home Secretary, former Foreign Secretary and MP for Blackburn, which has a lot of Muslim residents, has been attacked for his comments. Personally, I agree with him - it's hard to talk to people 'face to face' when you can't actually see the face of your fellow.

[MoscowMatt]

DSwain wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm

Jack Straw, former Home Secretary, former Foreign Secretary and MP for Blackburn, which has a lot of Muslim residents, has been attacked for his comments. Personally, I agree with him - it's hard to talk to people 'face to face' when you can't actually see the face of your fellow.

Oh great. Now we are in for another bout of Muslim protests, with their death to those who insult Islam placards!

They really need to be reminded who this country belongs to and if they don't like it then as I've said before there is this lovely place called Heathrow airport that they might want to use, just the once!! :lol:

[lilwolf]

I figure that if for no other reason then for being able to identify people if needed.

They live in your country and I would think that they should comply with the nation as a whole.

We had a situation here sometime back over drivers licenses and the ladies lost their case, because they needed to have faces on the license and these ladies wanted to wear head scarves and veils.

If you immigrate or whatever to a nation then you should be willing to compromise with the culture of the land you are living in.

[Plato & Socrates]

MoscowMatt wrote: DSwain wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm

Jack Straw, former Home Secretary, former Foreign Secretary and MP for Blackburn, which has a lot of Muslim residents, has been attacked for his comments. Personally, I agree with him - it's hard to talk to people 'face to face' when you can't actually see the face of your fellow.

Oh great. Now we are in for another bout of Muslim protests, with their death to those who insult Islam placards!

They really need to be reminded who this country belongs to and if they don't like it then as I've said before there is this lovely place called Heathrow airport that they might want to use, just the once!! :lol:

Relunctantly I must agree with you. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

[micfranklin]

lilwolf wrote: I figure that if for no other reason then for being able to identify people if needed.

They live in your country and I would think that they should comply with the nation as a whole.

We had a situation here sometime back over drivers licenses and the ladies lost their case, because they needed to have faces on the license and these ladies wanted to wear head scarves and veils.

If you immigrate or whatever to a nation then you should be willing to compromise with the culture of the land you are living in.

If they come to visit England, then do what England says and take off the veil. If you don't like it, then leave. And I'd actually like to see the faces of people I talk to.

[DSwain]

micfranklin wrote: lilwolf wrote: I figure that if for no other reason then for being able to identify people if needed.

They live in your country and I would think that they should comply with the nation as a whole.

We had a situation here sometime back over drivers licenses and the ladies lost their case, because they needed to have faces on the license and these ladies wanted to wear head scarves and veils.

If you immigrate or whatever to a nation then you should be willing to compromise with the culture of the land you are living in.

If they come to visit England, then do what England says and take off the veil. If you don't like it, then leave. And I'd actually like to see the faces of people I talk to.

I agree but we shouldn't forget that for the main part we're talking about first and second generation immigrants - so they're British.

[lilwolf]

DSwain wrote: micfranklin wrote: lilwolf wrote: I figure that if for no other reason then for being able to identify people if needed.

They live in your country and I would think that they should comply with the nation as a whole.

We had a situation here sometime back over drivers licenses and the ladies lost their case, because they needed to have faces on the license and these ladies wanted to wear head scarves and veils.

If you immigrate or whatever to a nation then you should be willing to compromise with the culture of the land you are living in.

If they come to visit England, then do what England says and take off the veil. If you don't like it, then leave. And I'd actually like to see the faces of people I talk to.

I agree but we shouldn't forget that for the main part we're talking about first and second generation immigrants - so they're British.


Then if it is gerational, one would think that they would have adjusted and made allowances for cultural differences. Second generation should have adjusted.
In my business about 5 months ago we had a customer come in that had a burka and a veil. Just prior to that we had been robbed , dumb move on the bad guy because in my store every employee is armed (if they are of age and legal). Needless to say the person that tried to rob us was an american woman that was wearing a burka and she got nailed with 14 handguns pointed at her. She is in jail now. So I put a sign on the door in 8 languages that said no veils, masks, or facial coverings allowed at all. This lady tried file a law suit and the judge threw her case out.

[DSwain]

lilwolf wrote: DSwain wrote: micfranklin wrote: lilwolf wrote: I figure that if for no other reason then for being able to identify people if needed.

They live in your country and I would think that they should comply with the nation as a whole.

We had a situation here sometime back over drivers licenses and the ladies lost their case, because they needed to have faces on the license and these ladies wanted to wear head scarves and veils.

If you immigrate or whatever to a nation then you should be willing to compromise with the culture of the land you are living in.

If they come to visit England, then do what England says and take off the veil. If you don't like it, then leave. And I'd actually like to see the faces of people I talk to.

I agree but we shouldn't forget that for the main part we're talking about first and second generation immigrants - so they're British.


Then if it is gerational, one would think that they would have adjusted and made allowances for cultural differences. Second generation should have adjusted.
In my business about 5 months ago we had a customer come in that had a burka and a veil. Just prior to that we had been robbed , dumb move on the bad guy because in my store every employee is armed (if they are of age and legal). Needless to say the person that tried to rob us was an american woman that was wearing a burka and she got nailed with 14 handguns pointed at her. She is in jail now. So I put a sign on the door in 8 languages that said no veils, masks, or facial coverings allowed at all. This lady tried file a law suit and the judge threw her case out.

Good tale, lilwolf! Remind me never to come shoplifting where you are....

Yes, you would think that 2/3 generation immigrants would recognise that wearing a burka isn't appropriate, unfortunately they don't and that's the fault of 25 years of multiculturalism. From my understanding of Islam - and posters, please correct me if I'm wrong - a modest veil arrangement satisfies religious requirements, along with clothes that are reasonably conservative.

[lilwolf]

DSwain wrote: lilwolf wrote: DSwain wrote: micfranklin wrote: lilwolf wrote: I figure that if for no other reason then for being able to identify people if needed.

They live in your country and I would think that they should comply with the nation as a whole.

We had a situation here sometime back over drivers licenses and the ladies lost their case, because they needed to have faces on the license and these ladies wanted to wear head scarves and veils.

If you immigrate or whatever to a nation then you should be willing to compromise with the culture of the land you are living in.

If they come to visit England, then do what England says and take off the veil. If you don't like it, then leave. And I'd actually like to see the faces of people I talk to.

I agree but we shouldn't forget that for the main part we're talking about first and second generation immigrants - so they're British.


Then if it is gerational, one would think that they would have adjusted and made allowances for cultural differences. Second generation should have adjusted.
In my business about 5 months ago we had a customer come in that had a burka and a veil. Just prior to that we had been robbed , dumb move on the bad guy because in my store every employee is armed (if they are of age and legal). Needless to say the person that tried to rob us was an american woman that was wearing a burka and she got nailed with 14 handguns pointed at her. She is in jail now. So I put a sign on the door in 8 languages that said no veils, masks, or facial coverings allowed at all. This lady tried file a law suit and the judge threw her case out.

Good tale, lilwolf! Remind me never to come shoplifting where you are....

Yes, you would think that 2/3 generation immigrants would recognise that wearing a burka isn't appropriate, unfortunately they don't and that's the fault of 25 years of multiculturalism. From my understanding of Islam - and posters, please correct me if I'm wrong - a modest veil arrangement satisfies religious requirements, along with clothes that are reasonably conservative.


I am not to kind on shoplifters. The reason we all have guns on is because we train cops and we sell weapons to the general public as well as law enforcement agencues.
The whole thing that pissed me off is that this woman tried to hide under a burka and that in my opinion gives muslims a bad name. So that was why I put up the sign.
I think you are right in the clothing and veils but i am not 100% sure as well.

[DSwain]

Muslim groups making their feelings known on this one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm

This quote is the most telling:

"Halima Hussain, from civil liberties group the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, asked BBC News 24: "Who is Jack Straw to comment on negative symbols within a religion that is not his own?" "

Interesting, that a group that on its website describes itself as being concerned with 'civil liberties' denies the right of non-Muslims to even comment on the religion.

http://www.mpacuk.org/

[mendosan]

DSwain wrote: Muslim groups making their feelings known on this one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm

This quote is the most telling:

"Halima Hussain, from civil liberties group the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, asked BBC News 24: "Who is Jack Straw to comment on negative symbols within a religion that is not his own?" "

Interesting, that a group that on its website describes itself as being concerned with 'civil liberties' denies the right of non-Muslims to even comment on the religion.

http://www.mpacuk.org/

Well its an Islamist group what do you expect.

[MoscowMatt]

Go into a bank, post office or petrol station and there is usually a sign telling you to remove crash helmet's etc. In shopping malls you must not wear a hoodie, all for security reasons. So why then should Muslims get special treatment allowing them to cover their faces? After all were not Muslim women recently arrested and charged over terrorism?

[rudijustfailed]

its true, to satisfy rules of islam, the hair must be covered as must the body, but the face can be showing. it's far more practical to just have a headscarf anyway.

[Yrkoon]

MoscowMatt wrote: In shopping malls you must not wear a hoodie, all for security reasons.
^they tried passing this ridiculous "security rule" here in some mall near where I live.

And then they were sued--by the very stores in this mall who sold hoodies. To make a long story short, this "security" rule no longer exists.


Isn't it a b*tch when freedom of expression prevails?

[Limey Boosk]

I saw a muslim women in Dewsbury the other day. I WISH she was wearing a veil. She looked like the wonderful Mr Edd.

I think the ones with the potato sacks on their bonces are just ugly birds. Ugly birds should be forced to cover themselves with a Tescos bag or maybe a KFC bucket.



Push it down young lady!

[Limey Boosk]

In my view, more women should wear veils, but expose their breasts.

There are to many BOBFOC's about.

[mendosan]

This story is well blown out of proportion, he said he asks women that visit his office, to remove the veil so they can communicate properly, he said there is also always another women present. At no point does he force them to remove the veil.

Similarly some teachers ask Girls wearing full veils to remove them so they can actually teach them properly.

Of course it hinders community relations, you cant really have a chat with someone wearing a full veil, but Muslim women have a right to wear what they want, you would think out of courtesy they would remove them when talking to people but thats there choice.

I also think it should be Muslims women who choose to wear the veil not there husbands, farthers or brothers, thats unaceptable IMO.

[Limey Boosk]

A muslim women is just a slave and a punch bag to her husband.

[MoscowMatt]

At the end of the day I couldn't care less what Muslims wore. What I object to is every time they throw their toys out the pram the moment that someone has an opinion that doesn't conform to Islam!

[lilwolf]

Limey Boosk wrote: A muslim women is just a slave and a punch bag to her husband.


Unfortunately there is a great deal of truth in that one statement. :(