Political Crossfire Forums

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

perdidochas wrote: The Newb wrote: Quote: Being a former teacher, and a current teacher's husband, I have yet to meet a teacher that I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most teachers are pretty stable, level-headed people, and at least in the states that I know of, have cleared the same background check (including fingerprints) as do CCW holders. With a gun safety class, they are good to go.

these same level headed teachers sleep with children?

Note, I said "most."

I have never met a teacher (that I know of ) that has had sex with a student. I've known some that have had sex with other teachers, but not with a student.

if you arm one you arm all ......

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

micfranklin wrote: Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.

lock them up unless an armed intruder comes bursting through the door??? a little redundant? how is a locked up weapon gonna help you?

micfranklin · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: Re: Shootouts

The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.

lock them up unless an armed intruder comes bursting through the door??? a little redundant? how is a locked up weapon gonna help you?

By "lock up" I mean the teachers keep their weapons in their offices so they'll know where to go should an intruder come in. Besides, do you know how awkward it would be if teachers started walking the hallways like prison guards?

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.

lock them up unless an armed intruder comes bursting through the door??? a little redundant? how is a locked up weapon gonna help you?

By "lock up" I mean the teachers keep their weapons in their offices so they'll know where to go should an intruder come in. Besides, do you know how awkward it would be if teachers started walking the hallways like prison guards?

same idea they would have to run from classroom to office unlock said office get gun take gunlock off gun run back to intruder too much time when all the intruder has to do is pull the trigger

micfranklin · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Shootouts

The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.

lock them up unless an armed intruder comes bursting through the door??? a little redundant? how is a locked up weapon gonna help you?

By "lock up" I mean the teachers keep their weapons in their offices so they'll know where to go should an intruder come in. Besides, do you know how awkward it would be if teachers started walking the hallways like prison guards?

same idea they would have to run from classroom to office unlock said office get gun take gunlock off gun run back to intruder too much time when all the intruder has to do is pull the trigger

Pistols would be easier to carry, then. And what makes you think anyone other than administration would have to know the teachers carry guns or that said office was locked?

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.

lock them up unless an armed intruder comes bursting through the door??? a little redundant? how is a locked up weapon gonna help you?

By "lock up" I mean the teachers keep their weapons in their offices so they'll know where to go should an intruder come in. Besides, do you know how awkward it would be if teachers started walking the hallways like prison guards?

same idea they would have to run from classroom to office unlock said office get gun take gunlock off gun run back to intruder too much time when all the intruder has to do is pull the trigger

Pistols would be easier to carry, then. And what makes you think anyone other than administration would have to know the teachers carry guns or that said office was locked?

an unlocked office puts the guns in the hands of the children ..... hmmm columbine?

micfranklin · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Shootouts

The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.

lock them up unless an armed intruder comes bursting through the door??? a little redundant? how is a locked up weapon gonna help you?

By "lock up" I mean the teachers keep their weapons in their offices so they'll know where to go should an intruder come in. Besides, do you know how awkward it would be if teachers started walking the hallways like prison guards?

same idea they would have to run from classroom to office unlock said office get gun take gunlock off gun run back to intruder too much time when all the intruder has to do is pull the trigger

Pistols would be easier to carry, then. And what makes you think anyone other than administration would have to know the teachers carry guns or that said office was locked?

an unlocked office puts the guns in the hands of the children ..... hmmm columbine?

Since I'm running low on arguments....couldn't teachers just carry their guns in suitcases and then whip them out when they need to? The suitcases would look like normal ones.

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

as pro gun as i am i cannot see putting them in teachers hands, maybe hire police or armed security but nothing more than that

limbaughfan · Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 25

I vote yes because your 2nd amendment rights should not be stoped just because you are in a school

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 21423 Location: Sin City

limbaughfan wrote: I vote yes because your 2nd amendment rights should not be stoped just because you are in a school :tu:

its a sad state of affairs that we need to attempt to legislate a right that already exists.... and to think .. alot of people voting "no" on this like to cry out in opposition to the government infringing on thier rights.... pretty damn sad really

wayne · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 140 Location: PA.

Most teachers don't know how to teach, let alone use a hand gun.
What if the student got hold of the gun? It's bound to happen.
We could see teachers gone mad shooting students left and right.
Instead, I recommend hand grenades.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:12 am Post subject:

I’m not sure I really have a problem with it, but for now, it seems like it could possibly be overkill. Were they to institute something like this, It wouldn't really bother me at all. But it matters on the school. For example, I think it would be useless at the school where I went to. We were in the middle of cornfields. There were no gangs, shootings, or violence. Yeah, someone might hit someone with an ear of corn, or a banjo or something…but that’s about it.

But think about this everyone. You think parents are mad now? How do you think he soccer moms will react when they find out there are about 30-40 guns floating around their students every day. How are they going to react when there is literally a gun in every classroom, feet from their kids. They will go apesheeit. What about the teachers who, like Liwolf said, think guns magically come alive and shoot people. We’ve all seen them. Many teachers will have a huge problem with this. I’ve seen people who couldn’t stand to be in the same room with a loaded gun. What of the teachers, and students like this? I think too many people are afraid of guns for this to ever make it.

wyldejackyl · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 7195 Location: Chicago, IL

The Grandmaster wrote: I’m not sure I really have a problem with it, but for now, it seems like it could possibly be overkill. Were they to institute something like this, It wouldn't really bother me at all. But it matters on the school. For example, I think it would be useless at the school where I went to. We were in the middle of cornfields. There were no gangs, shootings, or violence. Yeah, someone might hit someone with an ear of corn, or a banjo or something…but that’s about it.

But think about this everyone. You think parents are mad now? How do you think he soccer moms will react when they find out there are about 30-40 guns floating around their students every day. How are they going to react when there is literally a gun in every classroom, feet from their kids. They will go apesheeit.

They transport their kids in H2's that are deadly as well as wield scalding hot Starbucks. I guess if you are afraid of an inanimate object that can do no wrong outside of the hands of someone with malicious intent..well..then you truly are afraid of the world and should never go outside. It's all about managed risk. Arm the teachers? I voted yes, if it's consensual. Let them carry concealed if they want, refuse if they don't. The kids won't get their guns anymore than some bum is going to try to take the knife I have concealed in my pocket away. It just won't happen.

Someone spoke of kids getting teachers guns ala Columbine..but I'll remind you those guns didn't come from inside the school, nor were they obtained legally. Stop staining the argument with your references to things that are staunchly anti-gun..but bear no reality.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject:

wyldejackyl wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: I’m not sure I really have a problem with it, but for now, it seems like it could possibly be overkill. Were they to institute something like this, It wouldn't really bother me at all. But it matters on the school. For example, I think it would be useless at the school where I went to. We were in the middle of cornfields. There were no gangs, shootings, or violence. Yeah, someone might hit someone with an ear of corn, or a banjo or something…but that’s about it.

But think about this everyone. You think parents are mad now? How do you think he soccer moms will react when they find out there are about 30-40 guns floating around their students every day. How are they going to react when there is literally a gun in every classroom, feet from their kids. They will go apesheeit.

They transport their kids in H2's that are deadly as well as wield scalding hot Starbucks. I guess if you are afraid of an inanimate object that can do no wrong outside of the hands of someone with malicious intent..well..then you truly are afraid of the world and should never go outside. It's all about managed risk. Arm the teachers? I voted yes, if it's consensual. Let them carry concealed if they want, refuse if they don't. The kids won't get their guns anymore than some bum is going to try to take the knife I have concealed in my pocket away. It just won't happen.

I tend to agree with you. But you aren't trying to convince me. You're trying to convince all the soccor moms who see Tom and Jerry smoking on TV and starting crying to their legistlators to ban it cause little Timmy'll get the wrong idea, grow up smoke and die. You know the type I'm talking about.

I love guns. But how are you going to convince all the whiney people who think guns arbitrarily grow legs and start running around shooting people by themselves, that this is a good idea?

wyldejackyl wrote: Someone spoke of kids getting teachers guns ala Columbine..but I'll remind you those guns didn't come from inside the school, nor were they obtained legally. Stop staining the argument with your references to things that are staunchly anti-gun..but bear no reality.

I think you are referring to someone other than me, since I never was a part of that argument. Unfortunately, I also don't know who brought that up.

wyldejackyl · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 7195 Location: Chicago, IL

I just can't understand their flawed thinking. Life and freedom is inherently dangerous. I watched Tom and Jerry and I hate smoking, just like I never hit my friend on the head with a hammer or lit him on fire or shot him out of a cannon. I mean, come on. Are people grounded in reality anymore?

I was at a petting zoo yesterday, and saw PRECISELY what you are talking about. A sign that says, "donkeys may bite" and a big mesh fence (maybe 8" open squares) and a bunch of donkeys standing around. My wife and I approached, and the animals came over, we pet them. A family came up behind us with their kids. "Oh my god! Jimmy! Don't put your hands near them, they BITE! Just look at them, I don't want you getting hurt."
Everything bites. Don't piss them off and they won't. If you see them open their mouth, move your hand. For chrissakes- what is HAPPENING?!

No, the columbine argument wasn't you. I don't see why people are so opposed to students/teachers being able to defend themselves lawfully. I thought the only time you lost god-given rights was if you were a convicted felon..not simply by going to school. Educate people and maybe they'll get a clue..not poison their heads with drivel that makes them afraid of everything.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15408 Location: Florida

The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.

lock them up unless an armed intruder comes bursting through the door??? a little redundant? how is a locked up weapon gonna help you?

By "lock up" I mean the teachers keep their weapons in their offices so they'll know where to go should an intruder come in. Besides, do you know how awkward it would be if teachers started walking the hallways like prison guards?

same idea they would have to run from classroom to office unlock said office get gun take gunlock off gun run back to intruder too much time when all the intruder has to do is pull the trigger

Pistols would be easier to carry, then. And what makes you think anyone other than administration would have to know the teachers carry guns or that said office was locked?

an unlocked office puts the guns in the hands of the children ..... hmmm columbine?

The Columbine kids got their guns from other sources, so how is this relevant?

The Newb · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 2665

perdidochas wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: The Newb wrote: micfranklin wrote: Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.

lock them up unless an armed intruder comes bursting through the door??? a little redundant? how is a locked up weapon gonna help you?

By "lock up" I mean the teachers keep their weapons in their offices so they'll know where to go should an intruder come in. Besides, do you know how awkward it would be if teachers started walking the hallways like prison guards?

same idea they would have to run from classroom to office unlock said office get gun take gunlock off gun run back to intruder too much time when all the intruder has to do is pull the trigger

Pistols would be easier to carry, then. And what makes you think anyone other than administration would have to know the teachers carry guns or that said office was locked?

an unlocked office puts the guns in the hands of the children ..... hmmm columbine?

The Columbine kids got their guns from other sources, so how is this relevant?

it would be an easy source for them to obtain weapons

Alyssa M. · Joined: 05 Oct 2006 Posts: 57 Location: Montana

perdidochas wrote: Alyssa M. wrote: I would say no, because of the reason it's probably really stressful being a teacher and sometimes people do dumb things when aggravated. Not saying anyone would do this I'm just saying it could happen. Also there's the fact of a student getting a hold of it. That would probably lead to even more school shootings for being able to get access to such weapons could be endangering the student body even more.

1) There are very few cases of teachers getting so mad as to physically assault a student. In cities I've lived in, I can only recall hearing one or two cases of this. It's unlikely that most teachers will ever get mad enough to use a gun. Most people who go through the trouble of getting concealed weapons permits don't get mad and whip out their guns at a moment's provocation. very few, it still could happen

Quote: 2) The teachers could do what local school resource officers do. Carry the gun in an ankle holster, and teach the teachers a few kicking defenses. It's almost impossible for someone to steal a gun out of an ankle holster. They could be thrown off guard.

Quote: 3) I don't necessarily think arming teachers is a good idea, but that's because I don't think school shootings are a major issue. I agree I don't think it's major issue either.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15408 Location: Florida

Alyssa M. wrote: perdidochas wrote: Alyssa M. wrote: I would say no, because of the reason it's probably really stressful being a teacher and sometimes people do dumb things when aggravated. Not saying anyone would do this I'm just saying it could happen. Also there's the fact of a student getting a hold of it. That would probably lead to even more school shootings for being able to get access to such weapons could be endangering the student body even more.

1) There are very few cases of teachers getting so mad as to physically assault a student. In cities I've lived in, I can only recall hearing one or two cases of this. It's unlikely that most teachers will ever get mad enough to use a gun. Most people who go through the trouble of getting concealed weapons permits don't get mad and whip out their guns at a moment's provocation. very few, it still could happen

If you look at the 32 school shooting incidents of the last ten years, a definite pattern emerges. The shooters have been students, former students of the school, random psychos (the recent ones come to mind), and disgruntled boyfriends of teachers. Note what is conspicuously absent from the list--teachers. Having taught for 8 yrs (not currently), and being married to a teacher, I honestly think that I would trust most teachers with guns more than I would most people. For the most part, they are level-headed, cautious people.

Alyssa M. wrote: Quote: 2) The teachers could do what local school resource officers do. Carry the gun in an ankle holster, and teach the teachers a few kicking defenses. It's almost impossible for someone to steal a gun out of an ankle holster. They could be thrown off guard.

Not likely. The defense of an ankle holster is too easy--simply kick the person trying to take a gun from it. The act of attempting to kick will be enough to prevent taking the gun out by another.

Alyssa M. wrote: Quote: 3) I don't necessarily think arming teachers is a good idea, but that's because I don't think school shootings are a major issue. I agree I don't think it's major issue either.

At least you're right about something :P

TNBiologist · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 962 Location: Tennessee

I voted yes. From what I understand of the proposed bill, it would not force teachers to be armed. It would simply allow any teacher that wanted to go through the training and background checks (something they should have had to already) to be armed on school property. It is the same proccess as getting a CCW license. BTW, it was not illegal for anyone to carry a gun on scholl grounds until the early 1990s. Look at how many school shootings there were pre-1990 and post-1990.