Political Crossfire Forums

[CountryGuy]

Exactly. Its like taking a sledgehammer to kill an ant. And if you're not careful, you could hit a toe with that sledgehammer.

[NovaPacifica]

CountryGuy wrote: Exactly. Its like taking a sledgehammer to kill an ant. And if you're not careful, you could hit a toe with that sledgehammer.

Been their, done that :P ... only it was a cockroach... but I like your idea.

[superskippy]

Arming teachers does work to protect schools and kids, but in America the situation is drastically different from Thailand, Chile, or Israel who guard against milita and terrorist gunmen while in America your talking of arming entire teacher cadres for stopping school shootings that happen actually rather rarely. I just think the situations and how they would play out are very different when compared to nations that do institute or have instituted an armed teacher policy.

[CountryGuy]

So, you assume that the teacher, in the midst of showing the geography of South America to class on an overhead, can get the jump on a psycho coming into a school. If they don't get the jump, you then have another 30-100 teachers with weapons but no training on hostage situations in a very tense standoff before cops arrive. Assuming they don't try to play hero and get people killed first. I don't see this being a very realistic plan.

Never mind, the chance that a depressed kid might try to take a swipe at that gun in class -- More likely than someone storming a school.

Also, who pays for the guns for the hundreds of thousands of teachers? Sounds like a bonanza for gun manufacturers.

Why not require several armed OFFICERS in a school -- Whose job is solely security? I think that's more prudent than requiring teachers to have a holster to go along with their chalk.

[NovaPacifica]

CountryGuy wrote:
Also, who pays for the guns for the hundreds of thousands of teachers? Sounds like a bonanza for gun manufacturers.


Hahah, exspecially when they just cut the teacher budget in half.

[Superfly]

I voted no. It would be too easy for a teacher to be overpowered by a student who might not otherwise be able to obtain a weapon.

I think it would make matters much, much worse.

[MoscowMatt]

micfranklin wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: micfranklin wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Nah, that'd mean it'd take forever for anybody to get into school, even the staff. And plus, there's other ways people can get into or out of a school, like through the windows or the vents or even the sewers.

And would you really want a school that looks like airport security?

Better that than one that looks like a morgue after another killing spree!

Arming teachers will not work as the kids greatly outnumber them so it would be impossible to protect them unless you confine them to the class room all day.

Or every teacher who owns a gun could shoot an armed intruder down. Think about it: a teacher is teaching class and an armed intruder breaks down the door and prepares to attack. Before he or she can, the teacher shoots him and thus a classroom of kids is saved.

Let's not forget that some kids also happen to bring weapons of their own to school.

Ok so imagine this. Kids are outside playing or whatever for their break. A man walks through the gates. Now the teacher has to think is he one of the kids parents/ relatives/ relatives friends etc. or an armed intruder. Before the teacher can decide. Bang, bang, dead kids.

Or you have a single entry point to the school with metal detectors and an X-Ray machine for the school bags. Picking out guns and weapons would be easy from that. Yes it might take a little longer to get into school but hey, better to be late in this life than early for the next!!

[The Newb]

nope it will tempt more thrill seekers into the schools to do more damage

[MoscowMatt]

The Newb wrote: nope it will tempt more thrill seekers into the schools to do more damage

What and armed teachers wouldn't?

What if you had a proportion of teachers who didn't want to use firearms? After all killing people for whatever reason is strongly opposed by some. For arming teachers to work you have to assume they would all want to carry guns.

Imagine then, you want to kill kids, yeah then get a job as a teacher! Vetting processes can be unreliable. Better to keep guns out of schools all together.

[The Newb]

that was my point sorry i didnt explain it ....

[Bill Brasky]

MoscowMatt wrote: micfranklin wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: micfranklin wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Nah, that'd mean it'd take forever for anybody to get into school, even the staff. And plus, there's other ways people can get into or out of a school, like through the windows or the vents or even the sewers.

And would you really want a school that looks like airport security?

Better that than one that looks like a morgue after another killing spree!

Arming teachers will not work as the kids greatly outnumber them so it would be impossible to protect them unless you confine them to the class room all day.

Or every teacher who owns a gun could shoot an armed intruder down. Think about it: a teacher is teaching class and an armed intruder breaks down the door and prepares to attack. Before he or she can, the teacher shoots him and thus a classroom of kids is saved.

Let's not forget that some kids also happen to bring weapons of their own to school.

Ok so imagine this. Kids are outside playing or whatever for their break. A man walks through the gates. Now the teacher has to think is he one of the kids parents/ relatives/ relatives friends etc. or an armed intruder. Before the teacher can decide. Bang, bang, dead kids.

Or you have a single entry point to the school with metal detectors and an X-Ray machine for the school bags. Picking out guns and weapons would be easy from that. Yes it might take a little longer to get into school but hey, better to be late in this life than early for the next!!

I think it's important to look at the situations other countries have that warrants such an act. Personally I think it could work for us either way. But Like was said earlier, we don't have the Guerilla problem like chile, thailand or Israel. Nor do we have the Issue of terrorism Like was seen in Beslan, Russia during the Desember 2004 schol siege there. Is so much like killing an ant with a sledgehammer, maybe. The Psychological detterent, however, is undeniable.

Keeping that in mind,I think the first step we need to take before actually arming teachers, is to place more stringent regulations on live media coverage of these situations. While these are brutal acts that everyone should be aware of, The Live coverage gives too much motive too the would-be copycats. When a story like that dominates all the news networks, all day, it places more prominence on the issue. This, in my opinion, gives you run-of the mill suicidal/homicidal individual delusions of grandure. Why go quietly into the night(in their eyes) when you can captivate the world's attention, and go out in a blaze of glory.

[Bill Brasky]

MoscowMatt wrote: micfranklin wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: micfranklin wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Nah, that'd mean it'd take forever for anybody to get into school, even the staff. And plus, there's other ways people can get into or out of a school, like through the windows or the vents or even the sewers.

And would you really want a school that looks like airport security?

Better that than one that looks like a morgue after another killing spree!

Arming teachers will not work as the kids greatly outnumber them so it would be impossible to protect them unless you confine them to the class room all day.

Or every teacher who owns a gun could shoot an armed intruder down. Think about it: a teacher is teaching class and an armed intruder breaks down the door and prepares to attack. Before he or she can, the teacher shoots him and thus a classroom of kids is saved.

Let's not forget that some kids also happen to bring weapons of their own to school.

Ok so imagine this. Kids are outside playing or whatever for their break. A man walks through the gates. Now the teacher has to think is he one of the kids parents/ relatives/ relatives friends etc. or an armed intruder. Before the teacher can decide. Bang, bang, dead kids.

Or you have a single entry point to the school with metal detectors and an X-Ray machine for the school bags. Picking out guns and weapons would be easy from that. Yes it might take a little longer to get into school but hey, better to be late in this life than early for the next!!

I think it's important to look at the situations other countries have that warrants such an act. Personally I think it could work for us either way. But Like was said earlier, we don't have the Guerilla problem like chile, thailand or Israel. Nor do we have the Issue of terrorism Like was seen in Beslan, Russia during the Desember 2004 school siege there. Is it so much like killing an ant with a sledgehammer, maybe. The Psychological detterent, however, is undeniable.

Keeping that in mind,I think the first step we need to take before actually arming teachers, is to place more stringent regulations on live media coverage of these situations. While these are brutal acts that everyone should be aware of, The Live coverage gives too much motive to the would-be copycats. When a story like that dominates all the news networks, all day, it places more prominence on the issue. This, in my opinion, gives your run-of the mill suicidal/homicidal individual delusions of grandure. Why go quietly into the night(in their eyes) when you can captivate the world's attention, and go out in a blaze of glory.

[melchizedek22]

arming teachers,thats the answer for Americas increse in violents?
how about giving a drowning man a glass of water!

[perdidochas]

Alyssa M. wrote: I would say no, because of the reason it's probably really stressful being a teacher and sometimes people do dumb things when aggravated. Not saying anyone would do this I'm just saying it could happen. Also there's the fact of a student getting a hold of it. That would probably lead to even more school shootings for being able to get access to such weapons could be endangering the student body even more.

1) There are very few cases of teachers getting so mad as to physically assault a student. In cities I've lived in, I can only recall hearing one or two cases of this. It's unlikely that most teachers will ever get mad enough to use a gun. Most people who go through the trouble of getting concealed weapons permits don't get mad and whip out their guns at a moment's provocation.

2) The teachers could do what local school resource officers do. Carry the gun in an ankle holster, and teach the teachers a few kicking defenses. It's almost impossible for someone to steal a gun out of an ankle holster.

3) I don't necessarily think arming teachers is a good idea, but that's because I don't think school shootings are a major issue.

[perdidochas]

MoscowMatt wrote: The Newb wrote: nope it will tempt more thrill seekers into the schools to do more damage

What and armed teachers wouldn't?

What if you had a proportion of teachers who didn't want to use firearms? After all killing people for whatever reason is strongly opposed by some. For arming teachers to work you have to assume they would all want to carry guns.

Imagine then, you want to kill kids, yeah then get a job as a teacher! Vetting processes can be unreliable. Better to keep guns out of schools all together.

Being a former teacher, and a current teacher's husband, I have yet to meet a teacher that I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most teachers are pretty stable, level-headed people, and at least in the states that I know of, have cleared the same background check (including fingerprints) as do CCW holders. With a gun safety class, they are good to go.

That said, I think everybody's panicking over nothing. Personally, I think the best thing that we can do is ignore the whole school shooting thing, and not report it widely.

[The Newb]

Quote: Being a former teacher, and a current teacher's husband, I have yet to meet a teacher that I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most teachers are pretty stable, level-headed people, and at least in the states that I know of, have cleared the same background check (including fingerprints) as do CCW holders. With a gun safety class, they are good to go.

these same level headed teachers sleep with children?

[perdidochas]

The Newb wrote: Quote: Being a former teacher, and a current teacher's husband, I have yet to meet a teacher that I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most teachers are pretty stable, level-headed people, and at least in the states that I know of, have cleared the same background check (including fingerprints) as do CCW holders. With a gun safety class, they are good to go.

these same level headed teachers sleep with children?

Note, I said "most."

I have never met a teacher (that I know of ) that has had sex with a student. I've known some that have had sex with other teachers, but not with a student.

[Di]

CountryGuy wrote: While I'm a proponent of gun ownership rights, I think the concept of giving teachers guns is asinine. Has anyone considered the miniscule # of school shooting events nationwide, vs. the risk that having a weapon in each classroom (the only way such a plan MIGHT be effective) would entail?

I'm not saying the author of this bill doesn't have his heart in the right place but... Can we think things out a bit first?

What he said.

I'm all for the right of non-felonious Americans to bear arms... BUT they must take responsibility for controlling those weapons completely, or bear very serious consequence. Can you imagine trying to control thousands, or tens of thousands, of firearms in classrooms across the nation? *shudder*

[Jimz]

Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

[micfranklin]

Jimz wrote: Arming teachers. Now there is a super idea! While we are at it, don't forget to arm the administration, and the school cafeteria personnel, and the resource officers, and the clerical people in the office, and the crossing guards, and the bus drivers, and the student teachers, and the parent volunteers, and the school board members during any school visitations, and the librarians, and the guidance counsellors, and the psychologists, as well as any guest speakers and other guests on campus at any given moment. That should avoid any shootouts in the hallways. The best way I know to prevent violence is to heavily arm a significant number of people of either unknown or questionable mental and emotional make-up. By the way, does anyone really think that weapons can not easily be taken from teachers by students should they so desire? Then the fun would truly begin.

ThotsNRamblins

That's why the teachers and administration of the school would lock their weapons up unless some armed intruder should come bursting through the door. And we're not forcing schools to arm their administration, either, but by their own choice.